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Dr. Watson said:

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Belton Ag said:

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Independent George said:

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Little Fingers acknowledges his only weapon is knowledge. I feel like he has connected the dots on Jon and is waiting for the right moment to capitalize on his information.

The houses support Jon because he has Ned's blood running through his veins and that was good enough for them to declare him a stark. They make a point of mentioning it.

Will they still feel the same way about the "king in the norf" if his blood is Targ. (albeit also stark from Lyanna).

Unlikely but I can't think of what else he has plans for? Aside from trying to play Sansa and Jon against one another.

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I just don't know how he could connect the dots as there are no dots to connect. Before Bran finds out, the only people that know Jon's lineage are Howland Reed and Ned Stark, right? Not even Catelyn Stark knew the truth that I can remember.

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And the women attending Lyanna. It's not impossible for Little Finger to deduce that Jon is not Ned Stark's child. He was obsessed with Cat Stark. It wouldn't be unusual for him to do a little research on Ned and how he wound up with a ******* if he thought it might benefit his position.

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He may suspect something but I doubt he has the info. Bran had to travel north of the wall and meet the Three Eyed Raven to find out, it would be kind of weird for Littlefinger to find out off camera by simply asking some lady. It's probably going to be soon that Bran and Jon meet up again anyways so the info isn't benefiting Littlefinger much longer, seems like if he's going to use it to his advantage he ought to do it soon.

Dr. Watson said:

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Just read an article noting that Sansa's hair was done in Cersi's style before her head was shaved. Foreshadowing?

Also, this discussion about Euron's gift is ignoring the episode three description:

"Cersi returns a gift."

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I'm guessing she sends the sand snake's heads back to Dorne in a box.

Alright, I didn't feel like reading the novel that is this thread, but I haven't really seen this subject discussed and its bugging me.

Daenerys and the gang's arrival at Dragonstone was WAY too easy.

To me, Cersei sounded like she was fully aware well ahead of time that Daenerys would be making her landing at Dragonstone. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it sounded like to me. Regardless, I feel like this is super simple:

Option #1: Cersei didn't know where Daenerys would land until it was way too late

I understand the distance between Cersei and Dragonstone is very far, but regardless, if this is the case, then she's pretty dumb. Doesn't take a master military strategist to connect the dots that the lady who's known as the QUEEN OF DRAGONS would strongly prefer to make her landing at a place called DRAGONSTONE, a place that's known for its dragon history.

Option #2: Cersei did know where Daenerys would land well ahead of time

GoT is infamous for not really letting folks know exactly how much time has passed between scenes or episodes, but even still, if Cersei knew this, wouldn't you want to at least make it difficult a liiiiiiiiittle more difficult to acquire such a stout fortress that allows Daenerys a formidable foothold in your territory?

"But Hickory, she doesn't have any boats, you dumb@$$."

Fine. Tell the Eye Liner King of the Iron Islands, "Hey, I don't trust you at all, so here's your test for my hand in marriage. High tail your boats to Dragonstone and stop this shyte from happening." If he's successful and you still don't want to marry him, tell him to beat it. A Lannister may always repay his/her debts, but that doesn't mean she can't be a lyin', cheatin', SOB. What's he gonna do about it? He probably just used most of his people pulling off the miraculous upset. In all likelihood, though, he would lose but not before taking out a sizeable amount of Daenerys boats. Now you've just used a pawn that you didn't trust anyways to do some of the frontline dirty work.

I mean, even if you don't wanna do that, put SOMEBODY there. Why was an impenetrable stronghold at the edge of the land left completely unoccupied in the first place?! Let's say there's actually a good reason for it. Maybe it smells bad. Maybe you don't like the architecture. She's a crazy person, it makes sense. At least load the place up with your favorite green exploding barrels and put a small crew stationed near the fortress with instructions to ignite the barrels when they see a big @$$ fleet coming.
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Look, admittedly, I'm a casual fan. I don't know the pre-show lore or any of the geography outside of the North being in the North. Heck, it's not uncommon for me to forget most of the minor character's names. Maybe there's something I'm completely missing here. Regardless, I feel like its a pretty big detail.

Dr. Watson said:

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Just read an article noting that Sansa's hair was done in Cersi's style before her head was shaved. Foreshadowing?

Also, this discussion about Euron's gift is ignoring the episode three description:

"Cersi returns a gift."

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Assuming Euron brings her a person, maybe a dead body as a threat/statement?

SeattleAgJr said:

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The short answer is yes, it is ridiculous that it was unguarded.

In reality, it still belongs to House Baratheon (now Lannister) to take care of. One of their family would have taken it over in real life. In the books, it is not like the island is abandoned. There are citizens that live on it.

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Correct, I believe that Stannis even mentions leaving behind a Castellan and small contingent of old or wounded men to guard the castle.

On the other hand, Dragonstone IS an island of the mainland some ways - so if the Lannisters had no fleet available, they aren't getting there anytime soon.



On the third hand, looking at this geography, Euron should have been able to prevent any ships from landing at Dragonstone without a major naval battle. Even still, now that Dany is landed, how can Euron maneuver out of Blackwater Bay without being spotted and engaging Dany's fleet?

Perhaps it's a timing thing, but having noone to guard Dragonstone or at least there to surrender it to Dany was pretty poor without an overt explanation.

It might be possible that a trap has been laid that we will see in the next episode or so. Who knows though. I agree it's weird if they were just allowed to make a landing completely unobstructed.

Cercei went from all power being stripped of her to Queen of the Andals overnight. There is probably all kinds of stuff on the list higher than Dragonstone for her to attend to. I also don't think she knew Dany's fleet had sailed until just recently. And as noted, the Crown has no fleet to speak of and the Tyrell's aint offering anymore.

I can only make Dragonstone being left unguarded somewhat make sense in this light and keep in mind, HBO omitted the siege of Dragonstone, it just didn't happen in the series: If you are loyal to Stannis and among the handful of people left behind to defend the castle/island and you receive word that Stannis was defeated/is dead, and his entire army either was slaughtered or abandoned him, you may very well decide it's time to GTFO yourself. Why defend a rock, surely low on resources, for a lost cause?

Random thought:

At this point, everyone expects Jaime or Tyrion to be the one to kill Cersei. But what about Euron? What if his plan is to betray/kill her, and take the throne for himself?

He technically is a little brother, and I don't think the prophecy specifies HER little brother.

Further thoughts:

He'd be able to take King's Landing without much of a fight. Then Dany will get to King's Landing, only to find it guarded by Euron and his 1000 ships. At that point, Euron may offer to surrender the throne to her in exchange for marriage and the execution of Yara and Theon.

Not that Dany would take that deal, of course.

It's all together possible. There are still lots of little brothers out there in the fray. Jamie, Tyrion, Euron, Bran, Theon, maybe others.

I think the hang up with Euron with a lot of book readers is this: Euron feels like another GRRM rabbit hole that readers invested hours of reading POV chapters only to have no real impact on the core story arcs. At the end of ADWD, Victarian (Euron's brother, in the series, Victarian and Euron are a combined character) is sailing in to Slaver's Bay with a bunch of ships and this dragon horn thing which he presumes will allow him to control a dragon, or all three, or whatever. In the books it just sets up like another steaming bag of nothing. In other words, he's going to try to get a dragon(s) and Dany (for his concubine) but end up dragon dinner and hand Dany a fleet. Same thing that played out with Quentin Martel - Nothing. Same thing the whole Aegon.Connington, Golden Company was playing out to - Nothing. So having Euron become a major player in the GOT this late in the game feels cheap.

Still think his arc will end this season with him really doing nothing more than causing problems for Dany. I believe in the trailer there was a scene of someone washing up on shore. Probably the result of him scoring some victory at sea against Dany's fleet.

So who / what else is now a white walker thrall? - since we know bears, horses, and giants are wights...

• Bloodraven?
• Hodor?
• Summer?

Hell, John is a little brother to Visy/Dany if you want to get technical.

SpreadsheetAg said:

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So who / what else is now a white walker thrall? - since we know bears, horses, and giants are wights...

• Bloodraven?
• Hodor?
• Summer?

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I HOPE Hodor is one.

Summer? Nope. if they do not have budget to give Ghost any real time, no way zombie Summer is getting a single second.

FightinTexasAg15 said:

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No one wants to talk about the quick shot of a wolf... MAYBE NYMERIA... in the preview for next week?

Tree Hugger said:

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When I saw this watching the show last night, I thought it was the catspaw blade that was used to attack Bran in season 1, that was Valeryian steel if I recall:





Any chance true Valeryian steel is infused with dragonglass?

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This is a great catch. Looks like the same weapon.

I don't know if valeryian steal contains dragonglass. But it doesn't matter. From the Hardhome episode we know that valeryian steel will kill white walkers, and won't break like regular steel when struck with a white walker's weapon.

RDV-1992 said:

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Tree Hugger said:

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When I saw this watching the show last night, I thought it was the catspaw blade that was used to attack Bran in season 1, that was Valeryian steel if I recall:





Any chance true Valeryian steel is infused with dragonglass?

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This is a great catch. Looks like the same weapon.

I don't know if valeryian steal contains dragonglass. But it doesn't matter. From the Hardhome episode we know that valeryian steel will kill white walkers, and won't break like regular steel when struck with a white walker's weapon.

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For the record, I looked at my wife and said: "THATS LITTLE FINGER'S DAGGER THEY USED AT WINTERFELL!!!!"

Looks like I was right, Thanks for confirming!

SeattleAgJr said:

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Hell, John is a little brother to Visy/Dany if you want to get technical.

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I thought he is their nephew

Nobody knows how to make valyrian steel. That's why the weapons are so valuable. They're irreplaceable. They can be melted down and re-forged (ie Ice becoming Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail) but they can't be created.

M.C. Swag said:

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Nobody knows how to make valyrian steel. That's why the weapons are so valuable. They're irreplaceable. They can be melted down and re-forged (ie Ice becoming Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail) but they can't be created.

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Nobody that we know of. Crazier **** has happened than someone turning up who knows how to work Valyrian steel.

Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Nobody knows how to make valyrian steel. That's why the weapons are so valuable. They're irreplaceable. They can be melted down and re-forged (ie Ice becoming Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail) but they can't be created.

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Nobody that we know of. Crazier **** has happened than someone turning up who knows how to work Valyrian steel.

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We know someone who does: Bran, the Three-Eyed Raven

I just have a hard time believing that today's blacksmiths can melt down Ice and forge two news swords from it, but if presented with dragon fire, they couldn't make a new one.

It hasn't really been discussed (I don't think), but the process of creating a sword is probably the same whether its made in a brick over or dragon fire roasted. I think the dragon fire itself is what makes the steel so lightweight, durable, and sharp.

Bigger issue is getting access to said dragon fire and not getting your face roasted off

tremble said:

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Bigger issue is getting access to said dragon fire and not getting your face roasted off

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I didn't say it would be easy. I'm sure training a dragon to aim like that is similar to trying to roast a mini marshmallow on a toothpick with a WW2 flamethrower.

M.C. Swag said:

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Nobody knows how to make valyrian steel. That's why the weapons are so valuable. They're irreplaceable. They can be melted down and re-forged (ie Ice becoming Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail) but they can't be created.

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Yep!

Dragons fire applied to swords makes them valyrian?

I guess the iron throne is valyrian steel.