Game of Thrones - Season 7

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aggie93
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redline248 said:

wangus12 said:

nikator said:

The whole annulment thing in the show is so dumb. In the middle of a civil war where Dorne is already pissed at the slight to Elia and is only grudgingly sending troops he makes it worse by annulling the marriage?
The Rebellion probably hadn't started when they actually were married. I imagine the wedding and annulment occurred almost immediately after they ran away together.


Also a good point.
I'd be shocked if the marriage is annulled in the books. The Show has not talked about polygamy much so it is easier to digest the annulment and ignore the reality that an annulment would have had HUGE consequences such as making his 2 other children *******s and insulting the Targ's most loyal House in doing so (who stayed loyal to the end btw). The logic that Rhaegar could have annulled his marriage, screwed over his 2 Dornish kids, and then lived in a little love nest in Dorne is stupid but most Show watchers don't put all that together.

In the Books I would assume Rhaegar just takes Lyanna as a 2nd Wife, assuming he marries her.
MW03
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"Doesn't matter. That's not how it ends for you, Brother. You know who's coming for you. You've always known."
nikator
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redline248 said:

nikator said:

The whole annulment thing in the show is so dumb. In the middle of a civil war where Dorne is already pissed at the slight to Elia and is only grudgingly sending troops he makes it worse by annulling the marriage?

Targs in the past have had multiple wives (including Aegon the conqueror) though none had done so since Maegor the Cruel. Elia basically was not able to have children any more without risk to her life, so he could have got himself some sort of dispensation to get wife number 2 rather than throw the legitimacy of his children into question.

The thing that comes from the books is the other than Robert (for obvious reasons) EVERYBODY living loves Rahegar. Even Ned has no negative feelings in his POV, Cersei thinks of him as the one that got away, Barristan and Jamie both looked up to him. An annulment for a faithful wife would be something Henry VIII would do, not Rhaegar...just a deviation from where the character actually should be.

But then they did the same thing for Robb Stark (in having him get married because he is horny rather than a Ned Starkian sense of honor) in season 2, so why not Rhaegar.


The books also had Robb get married bc he was horny (or in "love", however you want to define it), that isn't a show creation. There isn't enough show detail to know what Rhaegar was up to, but we can make some guesses based on the books. According to Selmy (I think) Rhaegar became obsessed with the prophesy. It's possible that he didn't annull the first marriage and remarry because he actually loved Lyanna. He might have just done what he thought was his best chance at fulfilling the prophesy out of duty.
Actually they did not treat Robb the same way.

In the books, Robb had just captured the Crag when he got a raven telling him that Theon had killed Bran and Rickon. He was distraught and the daughter of the Lord of the Castle "consoled" him. In the morning he felt that he had violated a virtuous maid and the right thing to do was to step up Ned Stark style and make things right by marrying her and then making it up to the Freys somehow.

In the show he basically has the hots for this random healer from Essos and wants to bone her. Cat warns him that if he follows his ***** he is throwing away the Frey alliance, but he does not care and marries her any way.

Now both marriages were strategically stupid, but the first was the type of thing a dimwitted honor bound son of Ned Stark would do....he has competing claims of honor - a promise to the Freys vs. the noble woman whose virtue he tarnished he slept with her in a moment of grief, and he picks one.

The second is just a horny rash teenager throwing it all away for passion and having no thoughts about his oath to the Freys. A son of Ned Stark would not be as cavalier about promises unless there was a competing claim of honor. The two scenarios in the book and the show are different.

As far as Rhaegar, he was obsessed with the dragon having three heads. With Elia not able to give him another child, he went with Lyanna. Now he may have fallen in love with her after the Tourney at Harrenhall, but the annulment itself was not the same.
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"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
redline248
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aggie93 said:

redline248 said:

wangus12 said:

nikator said:

The whole annulment thing in the show is so dumb. In the middle of a civil war where Dorne is already pissed at the slight to Elia and is only grudgingly sending troops he makes it worse by annulling the marriage?
The Rebellion probably hadn't started when they actually were married. I imagine the wedding and annulment occurred almost immediately after they ran away together.


Also a good point.
I'd be shocked if the marriage is annulled in the books. The Show has not talked about polygamy much so it is easier to digest the annulment and ignore the reality that an annulment would have had HUGE consequences such as making his 2 other children *******s and insulting the Targ's most loyal House in doing so (who stayed loyal to the end btw). The logic that Rhaegar could have annulled his marriage, screwed over his 2 Dornish kids, and then lived in a little love nest in Dorne is stupid but most Show watchers don't put all that together.

In the Books I would assume Rhaegar just takes Lyanna as a 2nd Wife, assuming he marries her.
As someone else pointed out, Dorne only begrudgingly sent soldiers to help in the rebellion. I somewhat recall that Aerys basically used Elia and her children as hostages to ensure Dorne wouldn't side with Robert.

I doubt Rhaegar intended to stay in Dorne with Lyanna after the war. I think what I said earlier about Rhaegar doing all of it for duty b/c of his obsession with the prophesy is the likely case. His dad, his kids, Dorne, all be damned.
redline248
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I had forgotten about that sense of honor marriage. Thanks for the reminder.
My Dad Earl
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Quote:

I'll be a little disappointed if Jamie isn't the one to take down Cersei. They've been toying between good and bad in his character development for the entire show. I think this time it's making the final turn.
This. It'll play into his "Kingslayer" reputation. He'll be the "Queenslayer".
redline248
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Quote:

As far as Rhaegar, he was obsessed with the dragon having three heads. With Elia not able to give him another child, he went with Lyanna. Now he may have fallen in love with her after the Tourney at Harrenhall, but the annulment itself was not the same.
We haven't found out if the annulment happened in the books or not, so it might be the same.
Madman
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Actually come to think of it.






Maybe Joel is Peter!
MaroonStain
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MW03 said:



"Doesn't matter. That's not how it ends for you, Brother. You know who's coming for you. You've always known."
Did The Mountain push The Hound into the fire when they were kids?
Sex Panther
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Madman said:

Actually come to think of it.






Maybe Joel is Peter!


Salvation is a Ladder
ham98
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OldShadeOfBlue said:

One thing I haven't seen discussed: Sam has spent the last two seasons (and basically his whole life) on a quest to learn everything possible.

Now he has Three Eyed Google.
Westerosi 4Chan weaponized autism
nikator
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redline248 said:

Quote:

As far as Rhaegar, he was obsessed with the dragon having three heads. With Elia not able to give him another child, he went with Lyanna. Now he may have fallen in love with her after the Tourney at Harrenhall, but the annulment itself was not the same.
We haven't found out if the annulment happened in the books or not, so it might be the same.
Yeah, I doubt it will be that way in the books.
---------------


"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
Ol Jock 99
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MaroonStain said:

MW03 said:

"Doesn't matter. That's not how it ends for you, Brother. You know who's coming for you. You've always known."
Did The Mountain push The Hound into the fire when they were kids?

redline248
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nikator said:

redline248 said:

Quote:

As far as Rhaegar, he was obsessed with the dragon having three heads. With Elia not able to give him another child, he went with Lyanna. Now he may have fallen in love with her after the Tourney at Harrenhall, but the annulment itself was not the same.
We haven't found out if the annulment happened in the books or not, so it might be the same.
Yeah, I doubt it will be that way in the books.
Why do you doubt this? Not arguing, just curious.
Bazooka Joe
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With all the sped up time frames and world travels, why hasn't Cersi's hair grown out any more?
nikator
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redline248 said:

nikator said:

redline248 said:

Quote:

As far as Rhaegar, he was obsessed with the dragon having three heads. With Elia not able to give him another child, he went with Lyanna. Now he may have fallen in love with her after the Tourney at Harrenhall, but the annulment itself was not the same.
We haven't found out if the annulment happened in the books or not, so it might be the same.
Yeah, I doubt it will be that way in the books.
Why do you doubt this? Not arguing, just curious.
Posted about this above. Plot wise it makes no sense given what we know about the guy for him to dump a loving wife that way (even if he did not share the same depth of feelings) and raise the question about his kids being illegitimate when he could have reverted to the old Targ habit of polygamy.

Strategically with a miffed Dorne already reluctantly assisting in the civil war it would be insane to have them join the other 4 great houses already at war with the Iron Throne. Repudiating Elia could have led to that Eloping with Lyanna was a rash move in many ways and there is a lot we do not know about the details (did she know for example the mad king had killed her brother and father), but it does not seem to square with the attention to detail Martin gives his plot.
---------------


"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
nikator
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Bazooka Joe said:

With all the sped up time frames and world travels, why hasn't Cersi's hair grown out any more?
She is trying to get as close as possible to Tywin's hair do
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"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
Sapper Redux
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Bazooka Joe said:

With all the sped up time frames and world travels, why hasn't Cersi's hair grown out any more?


It would be funny to see her hair get long, cut, and long again in one episode to denote the passage of time.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Bazooka Joe said:

With all the sped up time frames and world travels, why hasn't Cersi's hair grown out any more?

ummmm.....maybe she found out she likes it short.

it's a new fashion trend in KL. She was the original. kind of a "dorothy hammil" for psychotic *****es.
Joan Wilder
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She was shaved bald and marched naked through the city - I think the haircut is a way of taking power from her moment of shame, a visual reminder of what was done to her and how she survived and punished her enemies.

The Cersei-Jamie-Tyrion scenes were the highlight of the episode.
wangus12
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https://imgur.com/a/i5dsO
Definitely Not A Cop
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Question for the board: so Bran said that Jon Snow should have been called Jon Sand before he found out that there was an official marriage. My question is: why?

Targaryens aren't from Dorne. Starks aren't from Dorne. If it mattered where he was physically born, wouldn't he have already been called Jon Sand beforehand? Because The story Ned told everyone was that he was his child born from a random girl in Dorne right?
Southlake
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Cersi was clearly disturbed by the wight. I bet she gets eaten live by two or three of them...
G Martin 87
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Champ Bailey said:

Question for the board: so Bran said that Jon Snow should have been called Jon Sand before he found out that there was an official marriage. My question is: why?

Targaryens aren't from Dorne. Starks aren't from Dorne. If it mattered where he was physically born, wouldn't he have already been called Jon Sand beforehand?
Go back several pages. Already discussed in detail.
Definitely Not A Cop
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I went back. So the consensus is that it was stupid for Bran to say that?
wangus12
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Zombie Jon Snow
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Champ Bailey said:

I went back. So the consensus is that it was stupid for Bran to say that?

No.

The consensus is that Westeros custom is for it to be the name from the region the father of the child is from (hence Snow was correct for the cover story even though the mother was Dornish and he was born in Dorne).

But Targaryens don't follow that custom as they do not have any specific region they are native to in Westeros. So Targ custom is basically do whatever you want. Sometimes Targs use the birthplace, sometimes they use the mothers region and sometimes they use whatever they want. So in this case Bran assumed the birthplace would be appropriate.


RDV-1992
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bangobango said:

OldShadeOfBlue said:

bangobango said:


Also, something I have not yet seen mentioned - Jaime is riding North to help fight. Presumably the three eyed raven now knows who crippled him....
I think Bran knew who crippled him as soon as he hit the ground...


He couldn't remember when he woke up.
Do yall seriously not remember this? Everyone assumed he fell off the castle and Bran couldnt remember any differently.

Yall think Cat would have freed Jaime if she had known he shoved Bran off the castle?
But she did know (at least in the show), because in the show he told her he did it.
RDV-1992
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Urban Ag said:

And can anyone explain what was up with Tyrion standing outside the door? That was weird/awkward.
Tyrion is like the Night's Watch.

They are the Watchers on the Wall.

Tyrion is the Watcher in the Hall. I'm sure he will be joined soon by Jorah.
Bazooka Joe
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Has anybody speculated on the bitter sweet end GRRM referred to for the close of the show? My guess is, after the NK and Lannisters are vanquished, Dany gives birth to Jon/Aegon's child who will be the heir to the throne (giving a natural heir as discussed previously) and Dany dying during childbirth. Doesn't the mother of the rightful Targ heir seem to always die during childbirth? Didn't Tyrian, Jon/Aegon, & Dany all leave dead mommy's on the birthin' bed?

Anyway, it's my guess.
Madman
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All dragons dead but replaced by a child is my guess.
Madman
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And if Cersei has a child it will be a dwarf.
Carl Underguard
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Dany gives birth to a dwarf child who then strangles her to death.
MW03
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Urban Ag said:

And can anyone explain what was up with Tyrion standing outside the door? That was weird/awkward.
I think he's worried about them getting close, since it seems like Dany's is listening to Jon more than she is Tyrion at this point. Probably saw it coming after she said screw it and took a dragon out to save him from WW.

I never got any kind of "love interest" vibe between them. More of a, "This dude is going to wreck everything by making her all Starky, now" kind of vibe.
marble rye
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Soooo...where did those dragon eggs come from initially as a wedding gift? And can that fool get any more?

Dragons arent male or female, right? Why hasn't any of those 3 shat out a few?
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