Carl Underguard said:

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Do zombie rules apply here? You get infected, die, and then rise again a wight?

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It applies in terms of who gets zombified. Like, why did the random solider come back as a Wight but Jon didn't? Why didn't any of the free folk (who lived north of the wall and thus subject to 'infection') killed during the BotB come back as Wights? It's important because there's a fairly large plot hole that needs to be sewn up. I'm sure it will be addressed, but its a legit question.

JJxvi said:

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CoolaidWade said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Jaime might be a Targ too.

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Explain?

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He was being sarcastic since dragons heads were in scenes with him too.

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Aha.....

I didn't pick up due to the 140 pages on this thread. I just skim them and that one caught my eye.

BowSowy said:

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JJxvi said:

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I have long believed (even before it was basically confirmed) that due to the contrarian nature of the source material to fantasy tropes, that the audience will eventually know that Jon is the ******* turned heir to the kingdom, but that the characters would likely remain ignorant of it.

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This is what I think. I highly doubt this whole thing plays out with Jon becoming the trueborn heir and sitting on the Iron Throne. I think Jon's parentage will either play some role in him becoming Azor Ahai or will explain why he's able to do something with the dragons.

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Maybe this is part of Jon's story arc... He never asked to lead, always chosen. So even if he is rightful heir, he will decline it or only take it if it is thrust upon him. Maybe the moral of the story is: those who seek the Iron Throne will never truly rule. Only the one who doesn't seek it will be a true leader....blah, blah, blah

That's a fairly common 'moral' though. And I've posted about this before, but I think GRRMs overarching theme for GoT is about the atrocities of war and how violence is a futile means to resolution or peace.

The legitimizing of Jon Snow bothers me also, as someone else said it's like if we find out that Rey is a Skywalker. It seems like part of the point is that they weren't born important, but now we find out that he secretly was born important.

Also, this is a good example of the writing of this show sort of annoying me now. Like... in his notes the Maestor wrote:

3/1 - Random Citadel facts: there are 5,34083245 steps
Random Sept of Baelor facts: There are 5672 windows

3/2 - I annulled a marriage of the prince of the kingdom and heir to the throne. Also remarried him in secret to someone else. (to find out who, turn to page 41 of book 3?)

So, in his random very specific facts about the Sept of Baelor, he drops in a vague note about a thing he did but doesn't include all of the details?

KidDoc said:

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InternetFan02 said:

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random question - how do Jorah and Thoros know each other? "Thoros? I hardly recognized you"

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Back in the good ole days when Robert had just won the throne they all hung out and had huge parties in KL and Thoros was kind of famous for his flaming sword and being able to keep up with Robert in drinking. Jorah became infamous for his selling of slaves which resulted in him being banished by Robert and his dad taking the black.

That is the only connection I can come up with.

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Jeor Mormont took the black before Robert's Rebellion, not as punishment for his son's crimes

In the books Thoros had the flaming sword, but in the previews they keep showing Beric with the flaming sword. Is that just a show thing? Did Beric have the flaming sword when the hound "killed" him a few seasons back when he was still with Arya?

There may have been details to annulment but Sam cut Gilly off

I have a feeling we will see the dragons airlift the dudes north of the wall.

The Jamie/Bronn thing is just as bad. I know we're overlooking some of the details for the sake of show, but to me the details are what made this show so good and now we're just like "eh, it HAD to happen like that..."

Even if nobody saw Bronn tackle Jamie into the water (which is obviously not the case because Tyrion knows Jamie is alive) the fact that they made it so far downstream with nobody seeing them is just bad.

wangus12 said:

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KidDoc said:

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InternetFan02 said:

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random question - how do Jorah and Thoros know each other? "Thoros? I hardly recognized you"

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Back in the good ole days when Robert had just won the throne they all hung out and had huge parties in KL and Thoros was kind of famous for his flaming sword and being able to keep up with Robert in drinking. Jorah became infamous for his selling of slaves which resulted in him being banished by Robert and his dad taking the black.

That is the only connection I can come up with.

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Jeor Mormont took the black before Robert's Rebellion, not as punishment for his son's crimes

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I thought he took the black because his son took off to avoid beheading? Have I read too many fan theories again?

Agreed. The lack of dragon use to confirm the dead army is really dumb IMO

He abdicated his lordship to Jorah and joined the NW before Jorah got caught selling slaves

Tree Hugger said:

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In the books Thoros had the flaming sword, but in the previews they keep showing Beric with the flaming sword. Is that just a show thing? Did Beric have the flaming sword when the hound "killed" him a few seasons back when he was still with Arya?

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i think BOTH Thoros and Beric had a flaming sword in the book. When Beric dueled the hound in the book his sword was aflame.

I mean she's reading it word for word and says "remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne..."

Why would it be worded like that if these were his own personal journals?

It's the way the show spells things out now without directly spelling them out. Like, every single person watching that knew exactly what it meant the moment she said it. It wasn't like a small detail that builds up over a few episodes or anything like this show used to have.

To me part of what made this show great was the breadcrumbs you had to follow that tied things together and then there was fun rewatching episodes to pick up on those small details.

Now they just bang us over the head with them like 5 times an episode it seems like.

I still absolutely love the show, so don't get me wrong, but that's just been bothering me lately.

she didn't read that part word for word. I.e she didn't say the name or the place, she adlibbed because she couldn't pronounce them correctly.

She's pretty clearly reading it word for word:

it wasn't the maester. It was the high septon...

Yeah I couldn't remember whose papers he was transcribing, she also is talking about the Citadel in the first fact and not the Sept. Which actually makes that line even more weird.

Here are some random facts, two that are extremely specific, and a third vague one

LHIOB said:

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I understood it as everyone who died north of the Wall became a wight and the reason the body turned at Castle Black is because it was so close to the Wall. Someone posted earlier that the NK had to raise the wights but thats not correct. We can raise them but he doesnt have to or the wight at Castle Black never would have happened.

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I think it's important to remember that we don't know how exactly the wights are raised. The one at Castle Black was dead outside the wall, but I think it was already turned. I think it had the blue eyes all the other wights have before it was taken back into the castle. We also don't know if the NK was near the wall at this point, or sent the white back to the wall, or even if other walkers can raise the dead. Still a total mystery.

So now that Jon Targ is confirmed, I'm just assuming he ends this thing sitting on the Throne. In fact, they allude to this in earlier seasons with why it can't be Dany. Dany has shown great success as a conqueror, but every time she tries to "rule" things just fall apart. I have a feeling that Dany will be part of the conquest of Westeros, but will ultimately defer to Jon to be King (maybe she's his wife, who knows?). I think we end this whole series with things back to the way they were before Robert first rebelled:

Targ on the Throne (Jon)
Stark in Winterfell (Sansa)
Lannister in CR (Tyrion?)
Baratheon at Storms End (Gendry)

One interesting theory I read was about Bronn. The Lannister song tells the tale of when the Reynes of Castamere rebelled against the Lannisters and the entire family was basically decimated. Well, the fact that Bronn has hung around so long as a "common Sell-Sword" and the fact that he keep mentioning that Jaime owes him a castle...what if he is the last "Reyne" of Castamere? They never say Bronns actual last name. Ever. Wouldn't it be fitting if he was doing all he is doing so that he gets his rightful home back from the Lannisters who took it all away....Kinda far fetched, but would be pretty awesome if it happened.

My thoughts (with no leak knowledge) of who will end up being the ruler at the end of the whole series:

1) It will have to be somewhat of a surprise to the audience. It can't be the obvious choice.
2) It won't be the leader going into the clubhouse (the strongest of Sansa, Jon, Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Dany starting at the beginning of next season.)
3) It likely won't be a man. Pop culture demands our entertainment strong leaders/heroes to be women currently. HBO leads with its political chin 99 times out of 100. I'm handicapping modern day writers here.
4) Still GoT loves to surprise and throw out conventional wisdom in other ways. So with that in mind I think the least likely at this point to win Survivor Island - GoT is likely to come from one of these outsiders - Tyrion, Little Finger, Varys, Gendry.

Will it be one of the 3 strong women currently in play? Will it be the completely random outsider? Will it settle down with a highly conventional ending (but with several headfakes along the way)?

Any thoughts? [No spoilers or leakers allowed]

Jon and Dany get married and rule together.

I know, and that's why I said I still love it, in some ways it's like a WWF thing where they built up the storylines for years and now it's time to just throw everyone in the ring and see what happens.

I get it, and like I said I'm really enjoying it, I guess I just miss some of what this show used to be at times.

Almost every single thing now is a massive plot device.

Last night I told my wife that the last episode will be the "hook up" episode with all the survivors linking up and getting married.

She strongly disagreed with me.

Carl Underguard said:

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Do zombie rules apply here? You get infected, die, and then rise again a wight?

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There is no "infection" that kills anyone. The walkers (or whatever magical force) can reanimate anyone that is already dead. Unless the bodies are burned.