quote:Ilyn or Podrick?
Payne isn't really important so he could die somehow too
***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***
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Last: 8 yr ago by hunter2012
Qyburn's little birds found that the HS hid the wildfire
quote:He tried to kill a little boy in season 1. He's changed a lot since then, but he will still do anything for his sister - I do think that's real. His journey with Brienne and losing his hand changed him and made him realize what he could be vs what he is, but I also think that returning home to have two of his children murdered - in front of him! - by political enemies has made him realize anew that you win or you die. I hated to see him go Full Lannister (even more so in the book) but he probably doesn't feel like he has a lot of alternatives. By threatening to kill a baby - and honestly, by actually killing the baby if need be - he took a mighty castle with minimal casualties on both sides. The only victim was his honor and it's been made clear to him that no one thinks he has any honor anyway, except Brienne. And he wants to get home to his sister and his only surviving child.
But do we think that New Jaime would actually have killed the baby? I do not. It was a bluff
Regarding the trial - I wonder if this is a precurser to the Tyrells demanding a Trial of Seven for Loras, since that is also sacred to the gods, and counting on Cersei not being able to find seven champions (while Loras quite obviously could). I just have a hard time believing that these trials won't involve some massive spectacle.
quote:quote:But do we think that New Jaime would actually have killed the baby? I do not. It was a bluffquote:i agree. i think they are showing the crowd that Jamie is as ruthless as ever.quote:I think the Riverrun sequence was all just character building for Jamie.
Riverrun sequence was useless.
I agree. I mean, "how can you live with yourself?", aren't they mostly critical of him for his most noble deed (saving kings landing from the mad King)? Jamie just seemed to be capitalizing on what they thought of him.
quote:quote:He tried to kill a little boy in season 1. He's changed a lot since then, but he will still do anything for his sister - I do think that's real. His journey with Brienne and losing his hand changed him and made him realize what he could be vs what he is, but I also think that returning home to have two of his children murdered - in front of him! - by political enemies has made him realize anew that you win or you die. I hated to see him go Full Lannister (even more so in the book) but he probably doesn't feel like he has a lot of alternatives. By threatening to kill a baby - and honestly, by actually killing the baby if need be - he took a mighty castle with minimal casualties on both sides. The only victim was his honor and it's been made clear to him that no one thinks he has any honor anyway, except Brienne. And he wants to get home to his sister and his only surviving child.
But do we think that New Jaime would actually have killed the baby? I do not. It was a bluff
Regarding the trial - I wonder if this is a precurser to the Tyrells demanding a Trial of Seven for Loras, since that is also sacred to the gods, and counting on Cersei not being able to find seven champions (while Loras quite obviously could). I just have a hard time believing that these trials won't involve some massive spectacle.
Isn't the trial of seven outlawed as well? It's a trial by combat featuring 7v7 so if 1v1 is out how can 7v7 not be?
quote:That was my thought too, but maybe there's a theological argument to be made that seven warriors would honor the gods - I could see Margery trying this angle with the High Sparrow to help Loras. It's just a thought - like I said, it's hard to see how a trial in front of seven septons would be anything more than a boring show trial.
Isn't the trial of seven outlawed as well? It's a trial by combat featuring 7v7 so if 1v1 is out how can 7v7 not be?
I guess the only thing that could discredit the HS is if the rumor is that he's not actually a septon at all but is a faker for some reason (no, not Howland Reed, just stop) but that seems really out of left field. But it's hard to imagine what else might discredit him; his followers are fanatics and probably wouldn't care about some scandal.
quote:quote:just go back a couple of pages to the "that's not Rickon, it's Arya!"
There doesn't seem to be as much room for crazy theories this week, so we are going to have some forum battles.
Eta: nothing wrong with crazy theories, imo. I just thought this was way out of left field.
Just so it's clear, I threw that out as joke. Less of a theory and more of a crazy what if scenario. I typically believe everything in this show is pretty straight forward.
quote:Jaime did say last week "only a fool makes a threat he's not ready to follow through with".quote:But do we think that New Jaime would actually have killed the baby? I do not. It was a bluffquote:i agree. i think they are showing the crowd that Jamie is as ruthless as ever.quote:I think the Riverrun sequence was all just character building for Jamie.
Riverrun sequence was useless.
Just watched the last two eps. This show is dumb. Motivations and actions of characters have stopped making any kind of sense.
Question for the book readers: is there any smoke to the HS being HR theory? From the show's perspective, this theory is borderline ludicrous. The HS is decades older than Ned was and I would expect HR to be approximately the same age as Ned. Not to mention the HS's story about being a cobbler doesn't add up at all and he doesn't really have a lot of incentive to make that story up.
My opinion is no, the HS is not HR. There's no evidence in the books. Howland Reed is a total enigma, we only get some details on his appearance and learn that he was at TOJ and that he and Ned had a strong relationship. He might be in possession of Robb's will, which was headed that way before the Red Wedding. To be fair, there's no evidence proving that HR is NOT the HS either, but it seems very very unlikely to me. It's a crackpot theory for sure.
Here's a good explanation of HS=HR and very thorough. I do not believe this theory. A little too out there
The HS is a Faceless Man trying to get money back for the Iron Bank.
Idk. Let's throw it all out there.
Idk. Let's throw it all out there.
quote:
Question for the book readers: is there any smoke to the HS being HR theory? From the show's perspective, this theory is borderline ludicrous. The HS is decades older than Ned was and I would expect HR to be approximately the same age as Ned. Not to mention the HS's story about being a cobbler doesn't add up at all and he doesn't really have a lot of incentive to make that story up.
If you bought into the fight club theory, then yes, there is enough in the to buy HS is HR. If you thought Fight Club theory was nothing more than fanciful imaginations run wild, then no, there's not enough to support it.
The big hook on this theory is the HS doesn't wear shoes and HR maybe doesn't wear shoes, either.
quote:quote:The "little birds" are spies, not cellar spelunkers. The secret is not the wildfire, but something else.
I think Qyburn found the wildfire reserves.
It's wildfire. The show was pretty heavy handed with that hint.
Jamie to Edmure: "Cersei loves her children fiercely. She would turn an entire city to ash for them."
Combine that with Brans "pre-cog" visions and the overt lingering of the camera over the sewer after Mountain Zombie killed that zealot, and it's all but assured to be wildfire.
quote:The birds found out that the High Sparrow stabbed Ser Arthur Dayne in the back like a coward.quote:The "little birds" are spies, not cellar spelunkers. The secret is not the wildfire, but something else.
I think Qyburn found the wildfire reserves.
quote:
Question for the book readers: is there any smoke to the HS being HR theory? From the show's perspective, this theory is borderline ludicrous. The HS is decades older than Ned was and I would expect HR to be approximately the same age as Ned. Not to mention the HS's story about being a cobbler doesn't add up at all and he doesn't really have a lot of incentive to make that story up.
There is little to no talk of Howland Reed in the book outside of his loyalty to the Starks through his kids Meera and Jojen. There is even less about the high Septon.
quote:
Just watched the last two eps. This show is dumb. Motivations and actions of characters have stopped making any kind of sense.
Arya - Went from scared, lost girl to worldly killer to aspiring assassin to finally reconciling her need for revenge with her true self.
Jaime - Clearly struggling internally with a pervading perception that he has no honor when in fact he is generally a reasonable pragmatist. The fact that he has moments of ruthlessness are a self fulfilling prophecy and mostly a smoke screen.
Kevan - Clearly bothered by the Faith but also pragmatic. He's not going to threaten a position of power by opposing the king and holds out hope that the shaky truce will hold. Plus, he (rightly) sees Cersei's incompetence as more of a threat than some overzealous religious nuts.
Tommen - Impressionable, naive and not all that bright.
Margaery - Faking it to save her family.
Davos - Prioritizes the coming war with the WW above all else and knows Jon is the right person to hitch his saddle to.
Varys - Softening the ground for Daenerys by allying with Dorne.
Tyrion - Trying to govern a culture he clearly doesn't understand by -- again -- doing what he feels is most practical.
You - Needing an outlet for unfounded nerdrage so coming on here and bashing a critically-acclaimed season of a critically-acclaimed show because you've convinced yourself that a series of 3 great and 2 below average books are masterpieces that should be treated with some sort of reverence.
And here I was thinking that I was the only one who thinks Martin isn't a very good writer, just great at shock factor which makes for great TV.
quote:
And here I was thinking that I was the only one who thinks Martin isn't a very good writer, just great at shock factor which makes for great TV.
I've seen that opinion on reddit. Its not that uncommon.
I really enjoyed books 1-3. Book 4 was mostly tedious, occasionally punctuated by something interesting. Overall book 5 was ok, a lot better than 4 but nothing close to 1-3. Had 4 & 5 been combined & cut down to 1s length it might have been good.
That said 1-3, while enjoyable, are not in my top ten favorite fictional books.
That said 1-3, while enjoyable, are not in my top ten favorite fictional books.
quote:That is how I read them.
I really enjoyed books 1-3. Book 4 was mostly tedious, occasionally punctuated by something interesting. Overall book 5 was ok, a lot better than 4 but nothing close to 1-3. Had 4 & 5 been combined & cut down to 1s length it might have been good.
That said 1-3 while enjoyable are not in my top ten favorite fictional books. Hell they are not my favorite Sci-fi/fantasy books & most of my fiction is Tom Clancy style over the top thrillers.
back to back?
quote:
Question for the book readers: is there any smoke to the HS being HR theory? From the show's perspective, this theory is borderline ludicrous. The HS is decades older than Ned was and I would expect HR to be approximately the same age as Ned. Not to mention the HS's story about being a cobbler doesn't add up at all and he doesn't really have a lot of incentive to make that story up.
that video above spend more time debunking HS=HR then supporting it specifically saying the theory.....
quote:
"...doesn't have any strong evidence and is pretty implausible in a bunch of ways. There are some tantalizing facts that "kinda" back it up but all those factors are still compatible with the simpler one, that Howland Reed is still in the North and that the High Sparrow is just what he seems"."
also about this idea as a thought out plan, it says:
quote:
"The biggest problem is it doesn't make sense as a plan. For the theory to be true Howland must have sat down during the war and with winter coming and decided that the best plan of action was for him to go wandering through the Riverlands on foot performing religious ceremonies for a foreign religion (keep in mind he is of the old gods, and would have to have studied the faith of the seven diligently to pull this off) until he manages to become the leader of a popular uprising and then become the High Septon a position with sufficient power to strike at the crown...all the while hiding his identity and faking faith. Like seriously????"
How could that be a plan? You can't just make a popular movement happen or create it and it also relies on the political instability existing by the time he does become High Sparrow to then become High Septon and take control basically at the behest of Cersei herself. The number of variables in that "plan" is staggering.
And let's not forgot, currently Occam's Razor is applicable in pretty much every recent case where fan theories have given very elaborate and complex theories, whereas in reality:
- Arya was just Arya (not the waif, not Jaqen, there was no Syrio, eyc.)
- Jon Snow did not warg into his direwolf or any other crazy things - he was just dead and Melissandre brought him back
- no LSH just the BwoB hanging their rogue members
I mean there are surely manipulations and plot twists at work - mosly due to manipulations by people who have shown they have that capacity or power (the HS, Tommen, Maergery, Cersei, Varys, LF, Ramsay, etc.).....but these wild supernatural type theories or someone is really someone else theories have all pretty much been bunk.
quote:quote:http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a
back to back?
I did that on a reread of the series. It was leaps and bounds better than reading them separately.
quote:Do we know it's Dorne?
Varys - Softening the ground for Daenerys by allying with Dorne.
Why not head to Dragonstone? Closer to Essos and KL, and it's uninhabited.
Great! I wish I had read it this way.
I think it's Dorne as well. Mostly because we know they hate the Lanisters, are (relatively) undamaged by war, & would give some relevance to the Dorneish plot.
quote:The little birds have filled the role of spies, kidnappers, assassins, and could easily be reached out to for other tasks. Orphans like them some food.
The "little birds" are spies, not cellar spelunkers. The secret is not the wildfire, but something else.
Dragonstone makes sense. Especially if they are filling in the Golden Companies book role. However, I still lean towards Dorne for the reasons above.
Although it could be anywhere. Maybe the dragons show up at the B Bowl going on next episode.
Although it could be anywhere. Maybe the dragons show up at the B Bowl going on next episode.
Suppose that's true, but it seems like Dany has more than enough firepower to take KL.
Land in Dragonstone and gather your forces. Then attack KL by sea (Ironborn), land (Dothraki), and air (mf-ing dragons).
Seems to me she could take KL in a matter of hours.
Land in Dragonstone and gather your forces. Then attack KL by sea (Ironborn), land (Dothraki), and air (mf-ing dragons).
Seems to me she could take KL in a matter of hours.
Book Little Birds with their tongues cut out & a special sign language are very adept at all manner of skullduggery. Show watchers only, thinking of orphans w/candied fruits, might not see them as such. That said I'm fairly confident it's wildfire. Then again I did not think the show would have an unarmored Arya get stabbed three times in the gut, role in to dirty water, & be sprinting about the city a short time later.
I agree. W/Dragons she can land just about anywhere & be successful.
Having put very little thought in to this:
35% Dorne: Reasons above (&/or others)
25% Dragonstone: Reasons above (&/or others)
20% Kings Landing (area): Varrys has contacts & friends, can quickly get "the lay of the land" & w/Dragons they may feel they can take power quickly. Also from a narrative stand point it might work to expedite her conquest.
20% Someplace else: For reasons I have not thought of.
Having put very little thought in to this:
35% Dorne: Reasons above (&/or others)
25% Dragonstone: Reasons above (&/or others)
20% Kings Landing (area): Varrys has contacts & friends, can quickly get "the lay of the land" & w/Dragons they may feel they can take power quickly. Also from a narrative stand point it might work to expedite her conquest.
20% Someplace else: For reasons I have not thought of.
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