***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

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Urban Ag
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10:22a, 5/17/16
AG
In the books Ramsay sends to the letter and there really isn't anything to indicate LF was involved.

In the show, the letter was clearly delivered to Castle Black by a Bolton courier/soldier. Ramsay wants his bride back. I'd be highly confident Ramsay wrote the letter.

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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Urban Ag • 10:23a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
In the books Ramsay sends to the letter and there really isn't anything to indicate LF was involved.

In the show, the letter was clearly delivered to Castle Black by a Bolton courier/soldier. Ramsay wants his bride back. I'd be highly confident Ramsay wrote the letter.

I agree that he probably wrote it. I also think it was a mistake to threaten the wildlings.
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Trident 88
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In reply to BallerStaf2003 • 10:24a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Was listening to a review of the episode and someone made an interesting point. What if the letter was sent by Littlefinger to rally the Wildlings around Jon and add strength to his own army?

Granted, it's kind of a shot in the dark with nothing to back it up. And how would he know about Rickon, unless of course he orchestrated that as well.


Little finger also says "Come and See" to Robyn when he shows him the falcon. Something prominent in the letter to Jon.

Interesting.
Does LF really say "come and see" to Robyn? Those exact words? I obviously didn't notice, but I sure as hell noticed these words when Jon was reading the letter. If you didn't, you weren't listening.

So, you may be on to something, but I still think it's a hell of a stretch. Maybe if LF had said it to Robyn more than once during that scene...

Anyway, if it turns out you're right, props to you, dude (assuming you figured this out on your own and didn't read it online somewhere).
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wangus12
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10:33a, 5/17/16
AG
Its the Pink Letter from the books, which was sent by Ramsey. I doubt Littlefinger is involved in any of this. You guys are trying to over think this.
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redline248
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 10:36a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
quote:
In the books Ramsay sends to the letter and there really isn't anything to indicate LF was involved.

In the show, the letter was clearly delivered to Castle Black by a Bolton courier/soldier. Ramsay wants his bride back. I'd be highly confident Ramsay wrote the letter.

I agree that he probably wrote it. I also think it was a mistake to threaten the wildlings.


Even if it is a mistake, Ramsay is arrogant enough to not realize that. Why would he be scared of wildlings?
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to wangus12 • 10:36a, 5/17/16
AG
This is a 78 pg thread about 4 episodes of a single season...we have not yet begun to overthink
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to redline248 • 10:38a, 5/17/16
AG
I never viewed him as arrogant. Sadistic, ambitious, jealous, for sure...but I can't recall him underestimating an opponent.
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The Debt
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10:39a, 5/17/16
Just watched the episode again, these are exact quotes.

First we see LF and Arryn scene

LF:
"My Lord, come and see, I missed your nameday!"


From the letter:
"Winterfell is mine, basturd, come and see"

"Your brother Rickon is in my dungeon, his direwolf's skin on my floor, come and see."

"Then I will spring your eyes from your sockets and let my dogs do the rest, come and see"


The only hiccup was the letter from Ramsay was hand-delivered by a man draped in Bolton banners. LF certainly has men in the Bolton camp, so it isnt too far a stretch to have one of his informants deliver the letter.
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Urban Ag
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 10:39a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
quote:
In the books Ramsay sends to the letter and there really isn't anything to indicate LF was involved.

In the show, the letter was clearly delivered to Castle Black by a Bolton courier/soldier. Ramsay wants his bride back. I'd be highly confident Ramsay wrote the letter.

I agree that he probably wrote it. I also think it was a mistake to threaten the wildlings.
Sure but I doubt that Ramsay thinks for a moment it is a mistake. The Northern houses hate the wildlings, so Ramsay is confident that he has common cause with the North to slaughter them. Further, Stannis easily rolled Mance's army with a much smaller force and in turn, Ramsay rolled what was left of Stannis without breaking a sweat. All considered, I don't think he fears the wildlings in the least.

Also, the show character Ramsay is wild and impulsive and there have been several exchanges between Roose and Ramsay that specifically served the purpose of the father trying to guide the son away from his "mad dog" antics. Yet Ramsay still murdered his father without hesitation and in the light of day with zero concern of backlash.

I think it all starts to set up nicely. An over confident Ramsay is lured out from the walls of Winterfell to engage Jon, Tormund, and the wildling army, only to find himself in the cross hairs of the Knights of the Vale, operating at 100%, all the while other houses flip against the Boltons, and Ramsay's force gets decimated. Ramsay is going down. IMO.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Urban Ag • 10:41a, 5/17/16
AG
I agree with the outcome of events and the effect the letter will have. Just stating my opinion of whether it was smart or not (regardless of motivation) to threaten the wildlings.
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redline248
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 10:42a, 5/17/16
AG
I think every one of Ramsay's actions speaks to his arrogance. He kills anyone he wants with no thought to the consequences. He didn't consider for one second that killing his dad might result in Bolton men turning on him. He wanted to go head to head with Stannis before they were worn down by weather and lack of provisions. He wanted to go right away to attack the wall. He thinks he's invincible, and that is arrogance.
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The Debt
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10:44a, 5/17/16
quote:
I get that...but Ramsay's first problem is Sansa and Jon Snow. As long as they live, his claim in the north is in question regardless of how he handles the Wildlings.
Kill three birds with one stone.

That would be my play.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to redline248 • 10:46a, 5/17/16
AG
You see arrogance, I see acts that speak to his impulsive nature of sadism and jealousy. He didn't kill his father out of arrogance. It was out of selfish preservation. He didn't want to march on Stannis out of arrogance, it was to legitimize his claim as a Bolton and shed his ******* title. I can't say you're wrong however, but thats my character view of him.
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The Debt
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10:50a, 5/17/16
While I was looking up a quote from LF, I found this gem from S1, it seems Tyrion has the same shared tempermant of LF

quote:
Petyr Baelish: We only make peace with our enemies, my lord. That's why it's called "making peace."
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M.C. Swag
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10:52a, 5/17/16
AG
I asked this earlier but wasn't it LF that spurred Lysa Arryn to write the letter to Catelyn in S1 about the Lannister's murdering the hand of the king? Isn't he responsible for kicking off this entire war? Or am I misrembering?
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The Debt
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 10:53a, 5/17/16
You are 1000% correct.
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Goose06
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 10:54a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
I asked this earlier but wasn't it LF that spurred Lysa Arryn to write the letter to Catelyn in S1 about the Lannister's murdering the hand of the king? Isn't he responsible for kicking off this entire war? Or am I misrembering?
From what I recall Little Finger had nothing to do with the letter from Lysa to Cateln. LF did tell Catelyn that the knife used to attach Bran was a knife he lost to Tyrion in a bet. That, along with the letter from Lysa, led to Catelyn taking Tyrion prisoner and taking him to the Vale.
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M.C. Swag
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10:56a, 5/17/16
AG
Googled it.

Per GoT Wiki:

quote:
"What wife would do the things I've done for you? What wife would trust you the way I trusted you? When you gave me those drops and told me to pour them into Jon's wine. My husband's wine. And you told me to write a letter to Cat telling her it was the Lannisters..."

Lysa Arryn to Petyr Baelish, admitting her role in the death of Jon Arryn S4Ep5
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The Debt
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10:57a, 5/17/16
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Arryn#A_Storm_of_Swords
quote:
Sansa Stark learns that unbeknownst to Jon, Lysa Arryn and Petyr Baelish had maintained a relationship since their youth. She had convinced Jon to bring Petyr to court in King's Landing so that they could be close together.Littlefinger had persuaded Lysa to poison Jon's wine with tears of Lys, suggesting to her that this would both remove the obstacle to their marriage and prevent Jon from sending Robert Arryn to Stannis Baratheon at Dragonstone. Lysa did as she was bidden.Petyr also encouraged the widowed Lysa to write the letter to her sister Catelyn Stark claiming the Lannisters were behind Jon's death, which contributed to the outbreak of the War of the Five Kings. Littlefinger's motivations are not clear, but he evidently saw the chance of exploiting the death of Jon to increase the animosity between the Lannisters and the Starks for his own ends. It is also possible that he saw Queen Cersei and her tendency to act hastily and irrationally as crucial to his own strategy in the "game of thrones" and wanted to prevent her untimely removal from the game.
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Goose06
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 10:57a, 5/17/16
AG
Ah, I had forgotten that. Interesting.
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jenn96
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10:58a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:

I get that...but Ramsay's first problem is Sansa and Jon Snow. As long as they live, his claim in the north is in question regardless of how he handles the Wildlings.

No. Sansa is Ramsay's claim to Winterfell. He needs her back in his castle and giving him heirs, not dead. The Boltons won the North through betrayal and guile, but the marriage to a Stark is what legitimized their claim on Winterfell and brought stronger support from the Northern houses. Rickon and Bran are threats to Ramsay, Sansa is an asset.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to jenn96 • 11:00a, 5/17/16
AG
That's what I mean. Jon snow alive is still a problem, but yes, he would need Sansa alive. Either of them free and clear of his control, however, pose a threat. Is what I meant.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Goose06 • 11:01a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
Ah, I had forgotten that. Interesting.
So LF is nuanced in the ways of letter subterfuge.
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Goose06
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11:02a, 5/17/16
AG
I don't think it was actually all that bad of an idea by Ramsay to rally the wildlings to Jon Snow. The Northern houses are less likely to join up with Jon/Sansa if they are bringing 2,000 wildlings with them. And Ramsey would much rather defend Winterfell against 2,000 wildlings than march to castle black and take them on in the open. I take the repeating of "come and see" as Ramsay hoping to lure Jon Snow and the wildlings to Winterfell so Ramsay can avoid having to march an army north.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Goose06 • 11:04a, 5/17/16
AG
Good point. I just want to see Jon Snow wield Longclaw again. It's been too long since he's handed out some beatdowns.
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Urban Ag
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 11:08a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
Good point. I just want to see Jon Snow wield Longclaw again. It's been too long since he's handed out some beatdowns.
wasn't Hardhome about six episodes ago?
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Burrus86
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:08a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
Jon's response to Ramsay.

NSFW language.
Sounds like something Tom Cruise's character would have said in Tropic Thunder!
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Urban Ag • 11:09a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Good point. I just want to see Jon Snow wield Longclaw again. It's been too long since he's handed out some beatdowns.
wasn't Hardhome about six episodes ago?
OR 11 MONTHS AGO IN REAL TIME

lol
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The Debt
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11:10a, 5/17/16
Northern houses being resistant to (Jon + wildlings), as well as the question of Jon + Longclaw can both be answered with the Stark's words.

Once SHTF, Jon will pick up Valyrian, and houses let bygones be bygones.
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Swing Your Saber
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11:11a, 5/17/16
I believe Mance Rayder wrote the pink letter in the books. Watched a video pointing out the verbiage used was consistent w/Rayder but not the Boltons. Utilized several of Mance's phrases word for word, but words no Bolton ever spoke at any point. The letter also spoke to things Mance knew, but was unlikely the Boltons knew.

No idea how it plays in the show. I think Ramsey wrote the letter in the show (currier had Bolton colors, but that could be faked) but really like the Little Finger idea.
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Joe Cole
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11:26a, 5/17/16
I thought it was odd that Mel and Davos have been at the Wall for awhile now and Davos just now gets around to asking Mel what happened to Stannis ???

They did seem to go out of their way to put the cobbler story in there, which really damages a lot of HR=HS

Bran has been getting frustrated with 3ER . I think he is going to go under for a vision by himself that results to Knight King seeing him. They are going to have to pull him back before something happens. He may get a scolding from 3ER.

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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Joe Cole • 11:27a, 5/17/16
AG
quote:
I thought it was odd that Mel and Davos have been at the Wall for awhile now and Davos just now gets around to asking Mel what happened to Stannis ???
And before she has to answer, Brienne interrupts.

So they continue to avoid having a confrontation between those two. Eventually the truth will come out, and Davos will likely call for her head.
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annie88
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11:28a, 5/17/16
AG
Another issue I have with the show is Jon Snow.

Sometimes he's really hot/cute and other times just okay.

I'm perplexed by this.
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OnlyForNow
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11:34a, 5/17/16
AG
I'm going to start a thread discussing this topic of the letter, the future of the show, and that spoilers and leaked material link posted earlier...

DO NOT CLICK ON IT IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW WHAT WAS POSTED ABOUT LATER EPISODES.
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redline248
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11:35a, 5/17/16
AG
OK, so let's really analyze why Littlefinger couldn't have sent this letter to Jon.

1 - Rickon. Highly unlikely Littlefinger knows Rickon is alive, knows where Rickon is, AND communicated enough with either the Umbers or Boltons to learn that Rickon is now in Winterfell.

2 - Sansa. You think Ramsay sent a message to Littlefinger informing him that Sansa got away? There's almost no chance Littlefinger knows she is at Castle Black with Jon

3 - He has no reason to send that letter. He knew Stannis was in the north and on his way to engage Bolton. He doesn't need Jon and the Wildlings to offer any distraction or means of weakening the Boltons before he shows up with the Vale.

Now, if the next step is to say "maybe he convinced Ramsay to write the letter," why would Ramsay have been talking to Littlefinger about any of these events?
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