***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

843,368 Views | 6639 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by hunter2012
jenn96
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AG
Finally got to watch and get caught up. Some random thoughts.

The episode is called Oathbreaker, but who broke their oath? The most obvious to me was Roose Bolton. It also stood out that the Umber refused to swear any oath to Ramsay. Northerners take their oaths seriously, his refusal matters. I agree with the others that it seems awfully convoluted to have Rickon kept prisoner but it also sets up a lovely long con. The North does have big non-dire Wolves, hopefully that wasn't Shaagy but this show's been hard on kids and dogs. But I have hope. Dammit, at some point the North has to Remember!

Loved the TOJ scene. Show is a visual medium and the two handed sword fight demonstrated Dayne's skills better than anything they could have done straight from the book. And as to L+R=J, it occurred to me immediately reading Game for the first time (19 years ago, lol). Maybe because I'm a woman, but (childbed) fever, a bed of blood and weakness - until the last couple of centuries childbirth was the main thing that young women died of so it was something I was thinking about. Ned's agony over his promise - combined with Ned's disgust at how Robert had celebrated the murders of Rhaegars other children back in Kings Landing - made it seem blindingly obvious to me. And he never once thought of Jon as his son, only his blood. If it turns out not to be true than most of Ned's memories and flashbacks from his POV in Game of Thrones are completely pointless.

I'm pretty much Bored. Now. with Aryas entire plot but I liked the Waif knocking her down for lying when she said she had 4 brothers. Hey, it's not a lie if you believe it!

Mereen is so lame. Tyrion and Varys are great but the entire Slavers Bay plot is such a beating.

Am I the only one that finds the idea of a Dothraki Horde riding into Westeros completely preposterous? I know they're fierce fighters but they wear bikini tops! It gets cold in Westeros. They are raiders, not soldiers. A tactician like Randyll Tarly with his full army (which he has) would utterly destroy them. And assuming they survived that, I don't like unleashing an army of rapists and child slavers on the citizens Dany hopes to rule. The Dothraki are basically the Ironborn with more personality. Hopefully Drogon just eats them all.

Speaking of Randyll Tarly, I've long though he had a bigger role to play in the books going forward from a strategic standpoint; he's generally known as the best general in Westeros. Sam is one of GRRM's favorite characters and he's basically headed home. And Tarly has a Valerian Steel sword. I'm curious if that plan starts to come together at all. The only point plot wise of sending Sam to the Citadel is to learn about dragons and walkers; he obviously won't make Maester before the shizit hits.

"My Watch has ended." Honestly didn't see that coming.
PatAg
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I feel like too many people are focusing on Howland Reed stabbing Dayne in the back of the neck (which was alluded to in the "helping ned survive" in the books) and not enough focused that the dude had his chest slashed open with a sword, survived it, and then saved his friend's life.
JAggie2007
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quote:
The episode is called Oathbreaker, but who broke their oath? The most obvious to me was Roose Bolton.
I don't think Roose broke any oath's this episode...
hunter2012
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quote:
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Honestly with how much ruckus I stirred up I'm partially surprised staff didn't end me either.


Me too

Ol Jock 99
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quote:
I feel like too many people are focusing on Howland Reed stabbing Dayne in the back of the neck (which was alluded to in the "helping ned survive" in the books) and not enough focused that the dude had his chest slashed open with a sword, survived it, and then saved his friend's life.

I'm not sure I buy that Reed took a cheap shot. The combatants were well announced at the start of fight. If Daine lost focus on other risks to kill Ned, well, too bad for him.

Put another way, when it was 4:1, if one of guys in the back had landed a shot, would people be yelling "cheat!"? I think not.
Ol Jock 99
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Fair enough

But thanks for calling down the damn sparrows on me!!
Ol Jock 99
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"Joy has not been uttered on the show. Confess!!"
W.C. Griffin '09
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quote:
quote:
I feel like too many people are focusing on Howland Reed stabbing Dayne in the back of the neck (which was alluded to in the "helping ned survive" in the books) and not enough focused that the dude had his chest slashed open with a sword, survived it, and then saved his friend's life.

I'm not sure I buy that Reed took a cheap shot. The combatants were well announced at the start of fight. If Daine lost focus on other risks to kill Ned, well, too bad for him.

Put another way, when it was 4:1, if one of guys in the back had landed a shot, would people be yelling "cheat!"? I think not.


I haven't been in a ton of sword fights but I'd thinking coming out of it alive is more important than fighting fair. Ned would definitely feel guilty though, especially if he finds out they were guarding his nephew and rightful king.

Edit: Sex Panther posted these on the show watchers thread. Bronn always puts things so well



W.C. Griffin '09
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What happened to ZJS? Catch a ban from another thread?

He trolled the Show only thread, staff came in and said, "for the watch"... and now his watch has ended.

Honestly with how much ruckus I stirred up I'm partially surprised staff didn't end me either.


I'm disappointed the staff edit said "troll deleted" rather than "for the watch". That would have been hilarious
redline248
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I agree in the other thread they are making too big a deal about Reed stabbing him from behind. That's the show's fault though. Oh well.
The Debt
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If it is known that reed and Ned were the only two survivors of this multiman melee, then it can be assumed that the "decision" didn't come down to a 1on1.
G Martin 87
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Two thoughts re: the High Sparrow:

(1) Howland Reed and Ned looked similar in age. Therefore, the High Sparrow is too old to be Howland Reed.

(2) If the High Sparrow is revealed to have a nasty chest scar, I'll be very disappointed.
AggieSouth06
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quote:
The episode is called Oathbreaker, but who broke their oath? The most obvious to me was Roose Bolton.

Jon. Roose died in the last episode.
The Debt
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quote:
Two thoughts re: the High Sparrow:

(1) Howland Reed and Ned looked similar in age. Therefore, the High Sparrow is too old to be Howland Reed.

(2) If the High Sparrow is revealed to have a nasty chest scar, I'll be very disappointed.

So you want a new character to swoop out of nowhere in the final act to confirm Jon parentage?
JJxvi
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Swoop out of nowhere?
jenn96
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quote:
The episode is called Oathbreaker, but who broke their oath? The most obvious to me was Roose Bolton.
Sorry, I didn't mean that literally happened tonight. I meant that the Boltons were the worst oathbreakers of everybody shown. Roose killed King Robb after swearing fealty to him. Nothing else comes close to that level of betrayal. If the Umbers are setting Ramsay up - and I think they are - then it would be because of that event.

Jon left the watch, but he had died - his watch really has ended based on the vows he swore to the Watch.
The Debt
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Swoop out of nowhere?

Yea as in "oh hey, here's this character we've never met he is gonna swoop in and make everything come together."
M.C. Swag
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quote:
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Swoop out of nowhere?

Yea as in "oh hey, here's this character we've never met he is gonna swoop in and make everything come together."
I think that's exactly what's going to happen. We've heard Howland Reed mentioned numerous times in the show. We've already met his children, and now we have the backstory to him and Ned's relationship. I think they've set up enough background material to be able to introduce him organically to the story. (Certainly more than a guy like Euron Greyjoy)
The Debt
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But it wouldn't be natural unless reed had a good damn excuse not to be part of robbs army when he called his vassals.
Trident 88
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But it wouldn't be natural unless reed had a good damn excuse not to be part of robbs army when he called his vassals.
I don't know the story as well as most, but if Reed found religion, that would be a good excuse.
M.C. Swag
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But it wouldn't be natural unless reed had a good damn excuse not to be part of robbs army when he called his vassals.
That is your biggest hangup? That would easily be explanined. He was North of Wall, attending to his children, too old or injured...etc.
JJxvi
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If you think someone is gonna jump out and say Jon Snow the ******* was a secret Targaryen, the true king, the realm rejoices, everyone lives happily ever after...etc then I don't know what to tell you. The audience will likely know Jon's parentage, but I highly doubt he lives to be king. The secret ******* becoming a king is too much of a cliche trope.
Ol Jock 99
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I'm wondering if WE learn that Jon is a Targ, but the characters don't.
The Debt
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A few pages back I mentioned the WWs overtaking the wall as the only way westeros rallies to resurrected Jon (AA/PtwP). The legend of the resurrected lord commander needs to be heard by many. But even then nothing is gonna be convincing to much of westeros which follows the faith unless they see something. I assume Jon riding a dragon and people holed up in a keep would welcome a savior.
JJxvi
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quote:
I'm wondering if WE learn that Jon is a Targ, but the characters don't.
We already have one character who knows. I think there's enough in the books to argue that Bloodraven already knows.
Ol Jock 99
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Oh some will know. But not most. Bran and 3 eye are in the wild. Ned is dead. Reed is MIA.

Bran, and thus us, can learn the truth, but Jon might not.

who knows, but could be an interesting twist.
redline248
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quote:
But it wouldn't be natural unless reed had a good damn excuse not to be part of robbs army when he called his vassals.
Uh, his excuse is that Robb asked him to stay put and murder the shht out of the Lannisters if they tried to march north.
AgLaw
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quote:
quote:
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Swoop out of nowhere?

Yea as in "oh hey, here's this character we've never met he is gonna swoop in and make everything come together."
I think that's exactly what's going to happen. We've heard Howland Reed mentioned numerous times in the show. We've already met his children, and now we have the backstory to him and Ned's relationship. I think they've set up enough background material to be able to introduce him organically to the story. (Certainly more than a guy like Euron Greyjoy)

Who has Rob's "heirship" letter? That could be another tie to Howland Reed, if that's where the letter was delivered. Kind of a stretch, but given Ned's affinity for Howland Reed and Reed's loyalty to Ned, maybe thats where Rob sent it.
GoneGirl
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So at this point the direwolves have served no great purpose other than to get killed and prove identities of various Stark kids...Bran did warg into Summer but on a very limited basis. Downfalls > benefits
I'd say Summer ripping out the throat of Bran's would be assassin would be a pretty important purpose.
GoneGirl
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Minor spoilers: Title for EP 7 is "The Broken Man".

GET HYPE


is this supposed to reference the hound? I can't come up with any others that fit
Theon
The Debt
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quote:
quote:
But it wouldn't be natural unless reed had a good damn excuse not to be part of robbs army when he called his vassals.
Uh, his excuse is that Robb asked him to stay put and murder the shht out of the Lannisters if they tried to march north.
Robb contacted a vassal with few men who inhabits poor swamp lands to be defenders of the north? (dumb tactics, and obviously they failed miserably when the Greyjoys came knocking)

Robb contacted a battle-hardened vassal who won the south once and told him to stay home? (weird personnel decisions)

Robb contacted the only man who knows the Norths secrets? (weird coincidence or Robb's prior knowledge, neither make sense)
JJxvi
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AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
But it wouldn't be natural unless reed had a good damn excuse not to be part of robbs army when he called his vassals.
Uh, his excuse is that Robb asked him to stay put and murder the shht out of the Lannisters if they tried to march north.
Robb contacted a vassal with few men who inhabits poor swamp lands to be defenders of the north? (dumb tactics, and obviously they failed miserably when the Greyjoys came knocking)

Robb contacted a battle-hardened vassal who won the south once and told him to stay home? (weird personnel decisions)

Robb contacted the only man who knows the Norths secrets? (weird coincidence or Robb's prior knowledge, neither make sense)
Howland Reed's seat sits on the key narrow land route to the North. Somebody had to guard it, and the book makes us believe that knowledge of the land is pretty key. The North fell because it was attacked by sea bypassing the neck.
redline248
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Debt knows all that and is just being difficult
The Dog Lord
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I think others have already mentioned that Jon being a Targ might be mostly irrelevant to the people in the story (if still significant to the story), but that him being the savior of mankind would still draw others to him. That in itself (wielding a flaming sword, leading the people to victory, possibly riding a dragon) could be enough for him to claim power (if he and others wanted it in the event that he makes it to the end). If he is also rumored to be a Targ, it would just give him even further support (potentially by making him a better suitor to Dany).

Like most though, I really just don't think this story will have that kind of ending. If the WW are mostly just the evil foe that they are currently made out to be and humanity prevails, I think it's still very likely that humanity will be severely impacted by the war between them. The world is likely not going to be the same. Perhaps Westeros will survive as one kingdom, but it's likely going to be very shakey. Only a true hero from the war or someone that still has overwhelming power (Dany with her dragons) are likely going to be able to hold it together.

I think it's much more likely that we don't have a happy ending (or at least find out that the WW had their reasons), the power dynamics change (Westeros as one kingdom is ruined), or the world fundamentally changes (perhaps reintegrating mankind with the CotF, the WW, etc.).
SpreadsheetAg
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Am I the only one who thinks Bloodraven is sitting in a tree blind? I doubt many show watchers realize the tree is growing through him.
Except the character himself said the tree was growing through him. I'm not a book reader and I didn't realize this until he said it actually.
The dude at the end of season 4 looked like he was one with the tree. The tree blind analogy is perfect for Max Von Shadow. It just looks odd.
Show quotes...

TER: I've told you many times, stay too long where you don't belong and you will never return.

Bran: Why do I want to return? So I can be a cripple again? So I can talk to an old man in a tree?

TER: Do you think I wanted to sit here for a thousand years watching the world from a distance, as the roots grew through me?

Bran: So why did you?

TER: I was waiting for you.

Bran: I don't want to be you.

TER: <chuckle> I don't blame you. You won't be here forever. You won't be an old man in a tree, but before you leave you MUST LEARN.

Bran: Learn what?

TER: Everything.
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