Awesome find!! I just binged watch all the seasons before the show and I totally forgot about that scene. I do think once you die, your watch has ended... No one wrote rules for if a weird 400 yr old priestess brings you back, you still have to keep going... So I don't think technically Jon Snow broke any oaths.

Agreed. The most speculative of which (interest in dragons) have also entered show canon in a big way.

I couldn't help myself.

http://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2747682/last

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Jon kills uncle greyjoy for Robb

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What do you mean by this?

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The crazy uncle that killed balon greyjoy wins the kingsmoot and sails the greyjoy fleet to essos. He is trying to bind the dragons to him with a horn he got from old valyria. I suspect dany will marry him for his ships so she can bring the unsullied, the dragons (and now maybe a khalisar) to westeros.

But what does any of that have to do with Robb?

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But what does any of that have to do with Robb?

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Theon betrayed robb. It's one of the biggest reasons robb died. He lost the north, his supply lines, the confidence of his men in the south. Remember the karstarks last words, "king who lost the north."

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Like you, I never thought of it on my own. However, if either of us had read the first 4 books 20 times while waiting on either the show or the 5th book, we might have. That's what a lot of people did.

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true....and/or been on message boards about the books and forthcoming show....

i was never on message boards even here until after i was caught up on the books.

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Really, it was my first thought when they described Lyanna lying in a pool of blood. Childbirth is bloody and even a little blood goes a long way.

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really? here are excerpts where blood is mentioned and the TOJ specifically:

GOT Ch 4.

"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was . . . fond of flowers."


then in Ch. 39 is where he mentions that BUT it is in a dream while under the influence of milk of the poppy for his pain....

He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.

then it describes the battle at TOJ outside and he is making a promise to Lyanna and someone wakes him up



Ch. 47 again he dreamed of her this time in the crypt

He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. "Promise me, Ned," Lyanna's statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood.


Ch. 58 again he is dreaming this time about the tourney and then as he woke....

Promise me, Ned, his sister had whispered from her bed of blood. She had loved the scent of winter roses.

"Gods save me," Ned wept. "I am going mad."


So to me yeah that first description was simply a room that smelled of blood and roses, the rest were all dreams and possibly drug induced ones. She could have been bloody for many reasons (rape for example, mortally wounded before the clash outside the castle like if they knew they were approaching, etc.). And even he thinks he is kinda whacked for dreaming about it.

I mean I get it...and it's great subterfuge by GRRM.....very well done but I don't think I would have ever taken all of that to be any more than his sister dying. Rhaegar was not even there. But if you ask me who Jon's mom is.....then I think well Ned came back from the TOJ with a baby, hmmm, and then she was in a pool of blood, etc.

Oh well enough time spent on this.

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The ptwp has a strange climb ahead, if in fact it is jon.

He has to rally houses to him and that's only gonna happen if/when the WWs make it passed the wall.

The winds of winter, man, that is the only play jon has to have an army. I hope he goes to dragonstone to mine and as he does Dany shows up with three dragons on greyjoy ships. Jon kills uncle greyjoy for Robb, marries dany, impregnates her, her infertility is gone, then dany/jon/tyrion fly north and melt the hell outta everyone.

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Huh?

Yall are aware the greyjoys and starks are enemies, right?

Greyjoys had nothing to do with the Red Wedding, though.

It doesn't matter, Theon betrayed Robb. Jon killing any Greyjoy could be seen as vengeance.

Depends on who's doing the killing, but I see your point. Was wondering the line of reasoning behind it.

If Jon does kill Euron I don't really see it being as direct vengeance for Theon betraying Robb, though. That line of thinking is more in line with the Lannisters.

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Greyjoys had nothing to do with the Red Wedding, though.

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The Greyjoys still invaded the north. Even took winterfell, killed jons master at arms.

I wouldn't take it as literal vengeance, just a byproduct.

By the way, where is Euron by the end of Dance With Dragons? Raiding in the Reach? I'd put low odds that he and Jon ever actually meet.

WGAS about the show only thread. Back on topic.

I think the Stark history lesson in the House of Black and White between ***** Waif and Arya is possible foreshadowing for how the Faceless Men could utilize Arya as actual Arya Stark in Westeros. Send her as herself on a mission to the North putting her in a precarious position of testing her loyalties as Stark vs. no one.

Going a bit more tinfoil, the House of Black and White serves whom? The many faced god? Is he in conflict with the Lord of Light in anyway that might see Jon as a usurper of faith?

Is euron the new king greyjoy? Headed to mereen with his dragon horn? Or am I thinking of the wrong brother?

Rhllor is one of the faces of the MFG. Rhllors religion is a dualism, light and the adversary.

One could claim the adversary is part of the MFG as well.

Euron, the king, sent Victarion to Mereen. I think.

Hasn't Mel described the "other" as a god of death? Or only of darkness?

Many faced god is death. So they could be rivals.

I personally think it won't have anything to do with one another.

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Hasn't Mel described the "other" as a god of death? Or only of darkness?

Many faced god is death. So they could be rivals.

I personally think it won't have anything to do with one another.

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Iirc, I think rhollr was one of the statues in the mfg temple.

I think rhllors adversary brings only death. But then again rhllor has killed plenty and only brought life to 2. One could claim R is protecting life....but whatever.

The MFG may be the god of death, everyone has an expiration, but there is a level of preserving life in that religion. Look at arya, when she saved the faceless man, she stole 3 lives from the MFG. When she killed trant she stole another life. It was not hers to take. So preserving lives exist for the mfg too.

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Euron, the king, sent Victarion to Mereen. I think.

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right, but it appears that they are combining Euron and Victarion in the show. My guess is that Euron gets crowned, leaves Asha in charge and sails for Slavers Bay. If not, why bother making a big point of Dany's navy being burned as she is no closer to getting to Westeros. The whole dothraki storyline, whether the show or the books, if just giving Dany something to do until the time is right for her to take her army to Westeros. IMO.

Well, who knows what the show will do? At first it seemed they wouldn't even need that Greyjoy story line bc of the Mereen fleet.

It's a bit tricky to have a discussion about 2 different stories within one, isn't it?

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Is euron the new king greyjoy? Headed to mereen with his dragon horn? Or am I thinking of the wrong brother?

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Euron was selected at Kingsmoot. He sent Victarion and fleet to Slaver's Bay.

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Euron, the king, sent Victarion to Mereen. I think.

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right, but it appears that they are combining Euron and Victarion in the show. My guess is that Euron gets crowned, leaves Asha in charge and sails for Slavers Bay. If not, why bother making a big point of Dany's navy being burned as she is no closer to getting to Westeros. The whole dothraki storyline, whether the show or the books, if just giving Dany something to do until the time is right for her to take her army to Westeros. IMO.

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It cannot be coincidence that all of the khalasars are in Vaes Dothrak when Dany arrives. She is going to take charge and send them riding to the shore of the Narrow Sea to wait for her and her new fleet.

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Euron, the king, sent Victarion to Mereen. I think.

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right, but it appears that they are combining Euron and Victarion in the show. My guess is that Euron gets crowned, leaves Asha in charge and sails for Slavers Bay. If not, why bother making a big point of Dany's navy being burned as she is no closer to getting to Westeros. The whole dothraki storyline, whether the show or the books, if just giving Dany something to do until the time is right for her to take her army to Westeros. IMO.

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It cannot be coincidence that all of the khalasars are in Vaes Dothrak when Dany arrives. She is going to take charge and send them riding to the shore of the Narrow Sea to wait for her and her new fleet.

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Remember what Mormont told dany, above all else, the dothrakis follow strength not blood.

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Euron, the king, sent Victarion to Mereen. I think.

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right, but it appears that they are combining Euron and Victarion in the show. My guess is that Euron gets crowned, leaves Asha in charge and sails for Slavers Bay. If not, why bother making a big point of Dany's navy being burned as she is no closer to getting to Westeros. The whole dothraki storyline, whether the show or the books, if just giving Dany something to do until the time is right for her to take her army to Westeros. IMO.

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It cannot be coincidence that all of the khalasars are in Vaes Dothrak when Dany arrives. She is going to take charge and send them riding to the shore of the Narrow Sea to wait for her and her new fleet.

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you think Hank? I think it's just more chase your tail, wasting time, wrote myself in a corner, Battle of Mereen too expensive to film, etc.

I predict a trial by combat, and Drogon comes to save the day. She comes to Mereen with the full force of the Dothraki.

I'll say this, if Dany actually ends up all the way back at Vaes Dothrak in the books, I won't enjoy reading about it. The show can get here there and back in 3 or 4 episodes, which is still too damn long, but the book will take 400 pages or more.

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Word. The book nerds have spent 20 years analyzing and obsessing over the ToJ scene. It's arguably the most important scene in the books. im holding out hope Ser Gerold Hightower isn't there for a good reason. Ned's recollection is VERY specific to the 3 Kingsguard, even as he feels ashamed to have forgotten the companions he swore to remember. Jory's dad for instance!

EDIT: Furthermore, Ser Hightower was Lord Commander of the Targaryean Kingsguard (as mentioned in the show). Him being at the ToJ lent further weight to the idea that something very important was going down there. Again, I hope he's inside and the show was setting up a second scene. If you're going to cut one of them out randomly, cut Ser Whent out.

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But the point of that whole scene was to show that Ned's recollection wasn't necessarily the way things went down....

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This...

Also, has it been confirmed in the show that it was indeed Whent with Arthur Dayne and not Hightower and Dayne? I just watched the clip again and it confirms Dayne but not Hightower/Whent.

Lastly, why is Jon Snow's hair black? Rhaegar had blonde/silver hair, and Lyanna had brown. Just a thought, but they have put emphasis on hair color before...

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I'll say this, if Dany actually ends up all the way back at Vaes Dothrak in the books, I won't enjoy reading about it. The show can get here there and back in 3 or 4 episodes, which is still too damn long, but the book will take 400 pages or more.

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200 of those pages will be describing the color and smell of the grasses they ride passed.

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What about the length. I need to know the length of the grass. And how it waves in the wind. If GRRM can give me that, full blown erection!

Why do all the other Stark kids have brown hair when Ned has blonde and Catelyn has red?

Well, besides Sansa.

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The actor who plays Edmure plays a significant role(s) in Outlander - Frank Randall and Black Jack Randall.... I'd be surprised if he's able to have any significant role in GOT as well....

But that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't.

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Yep, my wife is making me sit through this with her (and it's not so bad)...

Jack Randall is a real ****

Jon is actually roberts basturd and Ned has been covering the whole time

Speaking of Dany, when last we saw her one of the Khals had found her, but she was with Drogon. I don't see any way she lets the Dothraki take her prisoner.