oh well...that was quick...someone just blatantly posted it and mentioned the oft mentioned R+L=J as that....

someone else chimed in that it has merit.....

ah well...wasn;t meant to last.

let's see if they fry people for it....it's just a theory of course.

boy09, you ruined it.

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boy09, you ruined it.

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lol i liked your post over there

and yeah now he retracted it....oops....too late.....prepare the torches!!!!!

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boy09, you ruined it.

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I edited my post, but there's another one right after it.. I could have sworn it's been brought up before.

I thought that theory was pretty common knowledge at this point.

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But I've also seen them argue whether the R+L=J theory could even be derived from show only watchers. I think it certainly can

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I've mentioned it before...the wife, a show only type, thought of it during either S2 or S3 (we started watching after S4 was on BluRay).

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boy09, you ruined it.

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I edited my post, but there's another one right after it.. I could have sworn it's been brought up before.

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they've talked about R+L=J generically without detail....those that know....and they tell anyone wanting to know to google it.

but i'm not sure you are totally to blame...FTAC07 above your post mentioned something about Jon Snow being in that tower??....that started it.

you were just blatant. probably best to remove it.

Yeah, "R+L=J" has definitely been posted, but I don't think anyone has outright posted names, just left it to posters to google the theory if they want to know.

i asked the guy after yours to edit it too....maybe some have not read it yet. not everyone is on all day like me.

It's pretty crazy that the show only went into production because D&D correctly guessed about Jon's mother way back in 2009 or whenever it was.

All this time later and we'll finally get to see it in a few weeks. (Fingers crossed.)

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Switching subjects, the one thing that makes me think the gift is not Rickon is that show Ramsey doesnt have any clue that Theon didnt kill Bran and Rickon. He isnt just going to believe Rickon is Rickon...unless he has Shaggiedog with him. Hopefully that is not why the Umbers brought a wagon.

I'm a little stressed about this. A fake character on a tv show. What the hell is happening to me?

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Ramsey DID know about it - he was the one who suggested that Theon do the whole cover up when he was masquerading as Reek.

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Word. The book nerds have spent 20 years analyzing and obsessing over the ToJ scene. It's arguably the most important scene in the books. im holding out hope Ser Gerold Hightower isn't there for a good reason. Ned's recollection is VERY specific to the 3 Kingsguard, even as he feels ashamed to have forgotten the companions he swore to remember. Jory's dad for instance!

EDIT: Furthermore, Ser Hightower was Lord Commander of the Targaryean Kingsguard (as mentioned in the show). Him being at the ToJ lent further weight to the idea that something very important was going down there. Again, I hope he's inside and the show was setting up a second scene. If you're going to cut one of them out randomly, cut Ser Whent out.

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But the point of that whole scene was to show that Ned's recollection wasn't necessarily the way things went down....

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It's pretty crazy that the show only went into production because D&D correctly guessed about Jon's mother way back in 2009 or whenever it was.

All this time later and we'll finally get to see it in a few weeks. (Fingers crossed.)

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yeah they had to be really invested, in depth, in the story already to come up with it.

although even if you have not thought of it or thought it was anything other than as represented (a ******* of Eddard)....if GRRM asks you who Jon's REAL mother is then you might give it some thought and come up with it i suppose.

honestly, the fact that GRRM thought that question was so important that he based them getting to do the show on that is what lent credence to a. jon snow coming back and b. the entire R+L=J theory having merit.

in reality they never should have published that little reveal of why he trusted them - it was a spoiler of sorts itself and book readers and message board people dissected it all.

GRRM spoiled that himself.

if not for that we might all be sitting here thinking....well Lyanna was in the tower and screamed and so maybe she is in danger or hurt and Eddard goes in to save her and she was mortally wounded or something.

might have been the biggest surprise of the entire show even for book readers.

Oh man. Can you imagine if that scene truly was a surprise to you?

mindblown.gif

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might have been the biggest surprise of the entire show even for book readers.

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Unlikely, before the show was ever announced people had come up with R+L=J. Including what many suspect really happened at the ToJ

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But I've also seen them argue whether the R+L=J theory could even be derived from show only watchers. I think it certainly can

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I've mentioned it before...the wife, a show only type, thought of it during either S2 or S3 (we started watching after S4 was on BluRay).

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She's probably a bit brighter than most on that thread

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If people truly wanted to avoid spoilers, they would avoid online forums about the show.

Not saying that people shouldn't be able to have a place to talk about the show online without fear of spoilers, but it's unrealistic to think you wouldnt still come across spoilers.

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oh i agree but....there is no logic allowed in that thread. you can be burned at the stake for saying soemthing that should have been blatantly obvious from the show...especially if you just utter the 4 letter word "book".

i'm not pissed about it, surprised it lasted this long. just try to help occasionally when someone oversteps their own rules.....although i got roasted once there in seasons 2 or 3 for calling someone out as a book reader for a spoiler ....because they then said that my calling him out confirmed what was only posted there as a "guess"....it was a blatant jerk trying to get credit for wild ass guesses but was too obviously a troll.

anyway....careful where you tread there...mostly i avoid it. although honestly they are much more tolerant now that the show caught up to the books.

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His sword has no place for screen time. We have two seasons left and you want to spend it on exposition about meteors. Go away.

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The sword most definitely has a place for screen time, as it's one of the few valyrian steel swords left. You know, the same type of sword that let Jon Snow defend himself and kill one of the Boss White Walkers?

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It's not Valyrian steel. But there is a theory that it's Light Bringer.

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might have been the biggest surprise of the entire show even for book readers.

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Unlikely, before the show was ever announced people had come up with R+L=J. Including what many suspect really happened at the ToJ

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ok maybe. i have no context for that view.

i watched season 1 then read books 1,2,3 the watched season 2 and read books 4 and 5.....

but i read about GRRM telling D&D that somewhere while i was reading books 1,2,3 and certainly had not come up with that myself yet. then i started to think about it and my thought process was "why is Jon's real mother sooo important"......etc.

so i'm not sure i would have come up with it myself unless posed a question like that.

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might have been the biggest surprise of the entire show even for book readers.

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Unlikely, before the show was ever announced people had come up with R+L=J. Including what many suspect really happened at the ToJ

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This. I'd read the first 3 books prior to HBO picking up the show and it was already a theory back then.

Like you, I never thought of it on my own. However, if either of us had read the first 4 books 20 times while waiting on either the show or the 5th book, we might have. That's what a lot of people did.

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SOOOO...

Maybe the Manderly thing happened, but we didn't see it?

Greatjohn Umber is at The Twins, Manderly Shows up, takes out the Freys... Edmure Tulley is there...


***SPOLIER***

(and rumor is Edmure makes a re-appearance this season)

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The actor who plays Edmure plays a significant role(s) in Outlander - Frank Randall and Black Jack Randall.... I'd be surprised if he's able to have any significant role in GOT as well....

But that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't.

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Like you, I never thought of it on my own. However, if either of us had read the first 4 books 20 times while waiting on either the show or the 5th book, we might have. That's what a lot of people did.

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true....and/or been on message boards about the books and forthcoming show....

i was never on message boards even here until after i was caught up on the books.

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Like you, I never thought of it on my own. However, if either of us had read the first 4 books 20 times while waiting on either the show or the 5th book, we might have. That's what a lot of people did.

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true....and/or been on message boards about the books and forthcoming show....

i was never on message boards even here until after i was caught up on the books.

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Really, it was my first thought when they described Lyanna lying in a pool of blood. Childbirth is bloody and even a little blood goes a long way.

I learned my lesson last year. I just lurk occassionally, no posts.

What are people's thoughts on R+L=J+M? Personally, I wouldn't like that to be true. If you throw Meera into that scene, I feel like it takes away some of the impact of the revelation of Jon's true parentage. Plus is kind of raises the question of why they needed to separate them and why Howland couldn't just take both babies.

Is there any kind of circumstantial evidence supporting that, other than just throwing something at the wall? Just because she knows things? Her brother did too.

Probably just another crackpot theory like Howland Reed = High Sparrow.

When I read through them, I kind of wondered if maybe Jon had different parents, but that is about the only popular theory I came close to wondering about. All of he Prince that was promised stuff, that their actually is supposed to be another AA reborn I didn't really consider because their are just so many other religions, so much other history, etc that gets brought up in the books that I didn't really ever consider Melisandre to be on to something.

I do enjoy the crazy theories that people come up with though, and I don't know why people freak out and have to automatically be discounted just because someone read the book as well as the show (especially now that we are caught up). At the end of the day, we are all on here because we are bored. Why limit the conversation that is allowed to happen because someone might be a bigger nerd than you?

The ptwp has a strange climb ahead, if in fact it is jon.

He has to rally houses to him and that's only gonna happen if/when the WWs make it passed the wall.

The winds of winter, man, that is the only play jon has to have an army. I hope he goes to dragonstone to mine and as he does Dany shows up with three dragons on greyjoy ships. Jon kills uncle greyjoy for Robb, marries dany, impregnates her, her infertility is gone, then dany/jon/tyrion fly north and melt the hell outta everyone.

It seems like it would only be an alternate way to get to "The Dragon has three heads" but the show has all but confirmed for me that Tyrion is a ******* Targaryen and the third head.

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Jon kills uncle greyjoy for Robb

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What do you mean by this?

The show also seemed to confirm that the prince that was promised is equivalent to Mel's azor ahai.