***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

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G Martin 87
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AG
James Hibberd's eulogy for Ser Aliser in this week's EW recap is fantastic and on-point:

http://www.ew.com/recap/game-of-thrones-oathbreaker
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Personally, I loved Thorne and want to eulogize him a bit here. He wasn't a total villain like Ramsay or even an evil schemer like Tywin. And his position was never indefensible. Thorne's duty was to keep the Wildlings and supernatural beasties from coming south. The Wildlings as we saw with Olly's family rampage through towns killing innocent people. Thorne is a like a solider who's been given an order that, in his mind, contradicts his purpose and is therefore unlawful. A great number of southern houses want Thorne on that wall; they need him on that wall. He's their Col. Jessup. So when Thorne decided to give Jon Snow a Code Red, it was for reasons that we might not agree with, but the move was aligned with the same leadership and heroism Thorne showed while defending the courtyard during the Battle of Castle Black.

Plus, Thorne's total intractability was fun. From the moment Jon Snow arrived at Castle Black in the first season, Thorne was Severus Snape to Jon Snow's Harry Potter the older, bitter, black-clad authoritarian teacher who totally resented this young, talented, rule-breaker from an admired family. And as with Potter and Snape, everything Snow did just managed to piss off Thorne even more, no matter how well-intentioned or heroic. We've all had people in our life or workplace who, no matter how hard we try, we simply cannot impress. No matter what Snow did, Thorne's hatred only grew. Snow's a natural fighter? *******! Keeps his oath with the Night's Watch despite his father and brother being killed? *******! Infiltrates the Wildlings and warns Castle Black of their pending attack? *******! Reject Stannis' offer to reclaim his home? *******!

Then, finally, Thorne gets so fed up with him, he stabs Jon Snow to death. Snow is dead really dead. Thorne finally got rid of his nemesis. Then Jon Snow comes back to life resurrected and seemingly totally fine. And Thorne, this guy, he's still not impressed! Even Jon Snow returning from the dead doesn't faze him. Ser Alliser is just like: Oh yeah? So? You think you're special or something? You just gonna keep being resurrected like a coward whenever life gets too hard and somebody kills you? *******!

So Thorne actually tries to make Snow feel lousy about not having the decency to stay murdered. "You'll be fighting battles forever," Thorne tells him. He's basically saying that since Jon Snow's a bleeding heart in this cruel Darwinian world, he's just gonna end up having to fight to keep people from trying to kill him the rest of his life. You didn't win, Snow, ya cheated literally cheated death. Is that that kind of man you are? A cheater? I half expected Thorne, as he was dancing at the end of the rope, to gasp out one final, "Bassssstaaarrrrd"
AggieHank86
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By the way, Sansa was always a ***** to Jon. I find it interesting that she's now going to him for help.

She was a ***** to everyone
in fairness, she was too young to be a *****. Wan't she 11 or 12 at start of the first book? But she WAS definitely a little snot.
AggieHank86
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Tired of direwolves getting killed. DGAF about Rickon though. He was a little ****.
Rickon was 3yo. How can one dislike a toddler to this degree?
boboguitar
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Tired of direwolves getting killed. DGAF about Rickon though. He was a little ****.
Rickon was 3yo. How can one dislike a toddler to this degree?
Same reason people are posting pictures all over social media of a child being hanged.
redline248
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Over on the show thread they are discussing Bran seeing how Ned "won" at the Tower of Joy, and they seem to have jumped to the conclusion that it dimishes Ned somehow. That Ned lied about events there.

In contrast, in the books Ned never really told anyone what happened, only that he'd be dead if not for Howland Reed, right?

I guess I always assumed that Reed and Ned managed to overcome Dayne together, not that Reed almost died and then stabbed the dude from behind. I wonder how much of that was Martin's input vs the show writers. They do have a hard on for people getting stabbed from behind.

The dude at Crasters, Tristayne in the opener, probably some others I've forgotten...
AggieHank86
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The umbers will betray Ramsey. This is a con. Winterfell is an impenetrable fortress, and they need to have an inside team to have a chance. Having Rickon there legitimizes the Umbers and allows a team to set up camp in the castle grounds. It's a risk, but a risk they most likely feel worth taking to rid the North of the traitor family and take back Winterfell.
Is Ramsay currently at Winterfell or at the Dreadfort?
SouthTexasAg06
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Winterfell.
titanmaster_race
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They are also losing their minds any time a poster uses the words "book" or "books". From a nice calm to an instant witch hunt; nevermind that no spoilers or anything from the books were ever discussed.
wangus12
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quote:
In contrast, in the books Ned never really told anyone what happened, only that he'd be dead if not for Howland Reed, right?
Ned basically states that Dayne would have killed him but for Howland Reed. So its being insinuated that Reed saved Ned's ass somehow during the fight and that they were the only two left alive. I doubt Ned ever revealed the exact details of the fight to anyone. Especially since he was already guarding a heavy secret from Lyanna on the same day. He probably never talked about it. People knew that 3 Kingsguard and 7 rebels did battle and Stark/Reed were the only survivors. Easy to build a epic story from that alone.
redline248
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Is bran incapable of reproducing?
If Tyrion could make a saddle that allowed Bran to ride a horse, you know damn well he could come up with one to allow Bran to ride a woman.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Show thread is full of losers! They're not cool like us, right guys?
Mathguy64
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Is bran incapable of reproducing?
If Tyrion could make a saddle that allowed Bran to ride a horse, you know damn well he could come up with one to allow Bran to ride a woman.
Reverse cowboy.
titanmaster_race
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Show thread is full of losers! They're not cool like us, right guys?


Guess i invaded somebody's safe space
wangus12
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I hope you mean for a woman to ride Bran
Zombie Jon Snow
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I pointed out to them (without saying book, and referring only to show material) that Ned never said anything about the battle specifically and that even Bran says "i've heard that story a thousand times". he never said he heard it from his father directly. Easily could be a story exaggerated through retellings especially if the 2 that actually were there never really talk about it.
redline248
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I hope you mean for a woman to ride Bran
Being a warg, Bran probably enjoys doggy-style
FightinTexasAg15
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Man this season has been awesome. And there is still a ton of epicness to happen. And bowls to be played
titanmaster_race
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quote:
I pointed out to them (without saying book, and referring only to show material) that Ned never said anything about the battle specifically and that even Bran says "i've heard that story a thousand times". he never said he heard it from his father directly. Easily could be a story exaggerated through retellings especially if the 2 that actually were there never really talk about it.


I think that makes sense.

I'm curious if GRRM will ever revisit that scene in the books. Since there arent weirwood trees in Dorne, I guess it would have to be told through Howland Reed.
redline248
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This is the problem with the show. They just assume Ned told the story and led Bran to believe he won in single combat. No line about Howland saving Ned. Was that ever mentioned when Robb was still alive in the show, or when Meera and Jojen first showed up?
HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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quote:
This is the problem with the show. They just assume Ned told the story and led Bran to believe he won in single combat. No line about Howland saving Ned. Was that ever mentioned when Robb was still alive in the show, or when Meera and Jojen first showed up?
i think they definitely tried to show that the Stark kids "didnt know everything" once the Reed kids showed up. i seem to recall both of them having to correct Bran on a couple "facts" about the past. Not sure if the show did a great job establishing that what knew wasnt gospel, but i think they hinted at it.
Brian Earl Spilner
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This is how I interpreted it.
Thomas Ford 91
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quote:
Is bran incapable of reproducing?


I'm a firm believer that Bran is character that will survive the ending, but will never physically go south of the Wall again. Certainly never return as Brandon Stark, Lord of Winterfell.
titanmaster_race
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quote:
quote:
Is bran incapable of reproducing?


I'm a firm believer that Bran is character that will survive the ending, but will never physically go south of the Wall again. Certainly never return as Brandon Stark, Lord of Winterfell.

Brandon Stark, Lord of Winterfell would be sick tho
wangus12
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quote:
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This is the problem with the show. They just assume Ned told the story and led Bran to believe he won in single combat. No line about Howland saving Ned. Was that ever mentioned when Robb was still alive in the show, or when Meera and Jojen first showed up?
i think they definitely tried to show that the Stark kids "didnt know everything" once the Reed kids showed up. i seem to recall both of them having to correct Bran on a couple "facts" about the past. Not sure if the show did a great job establishing that what knew wasnt gospel, but i think they hinted at it.
The Reed kids were the ones to explain everything that went down at the Tourney at Harrenhall. Robb states that his father knew the worth of Howland Reed.
Urban Ag
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quote:
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Is bran incapable of reproducing?


I'm a firm believer that Bran is character that will survive the ending, but will never physically go south of the Wall again. Certainly never return as Brandon Stark, Lord of Winterfell.
Three eyed raven specifically said that Bran "doesn't have to stay here forever" in regards to his confinement in the cave. i have no idea what that was supposed to mean but I wouldn't be surprised if Bran makes it south of the wall before the end.
Goose06
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quote:
quote:
Is bran incapable of reproducing?


I'm a firm believer that Bran is character that will survive the ending, but will never physically go south of the Wall again. Certainly never return as Brandon Stark, Lord of Winterfell.
Funny that I asked this... I started listening too the first audio book last week and today I was listening to the part where Arya and Ned were talking in Kings Landing as Ned came up on Arya trying to balance on one foot on the stairs. As they talked about what she might do with her future (Ned suggesting she would be a queen, Arya saying that was for Sansa not her), Arya then asked what would Bran do with his future? Would he be a knight of the Kingsguard? Ned said no. In addition to saying some other things about Bran, Ned specifically said Bran would never lay with a woman. I find that odd that he would say that to Arya who I think is only 9 years old, but I I guess just a sign of how different Westeros is in terms of how quickly their children grow up.

Thats not to say Ned might not be wrong and that Bran might be able to reproduce, but Ned clearly believed that Bran would not be able to.
Brian Earl Spilner
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How much times goes by between the Tourney at Harenhal and the ToJ?
bbattbq01
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quote:
How much times goes by between the Tourney at Harenhal and the ToJ?


Two years according to wiki. Tourney in 281 and raid on ToJ in 283.
wangus12
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quote:
quote:
Is bran incapable of reproducing?


I'm a firm believer that Bran is character that will survive the ending, but will never physically go south of the Wall again. Certainly never return as Brandon Stark, Lord of Winterfell.
He is definitely going south of the Wall again. The 3-eyed raven has said he cannot stay there and he has to tell people of all this knowledge he is getting.
Brian Earl Spilner
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From the show thread:

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Any thoughts on Jon Snow being in that tower where Ned was looking for his sister?
Zombie Jon Snow
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How much times goes by between the Tourney at Harenhal and the ToJ?


Two years according to wiki. Tourney in 281 and raid on ToJ in 283.

well yeah....about.

It was said that it was a year after the tourney when Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna. And the TOJ was about a year after that (9 months i would bet).

Zombie Jon Snow
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quote:
From the show thread:

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Any thoughts on Jon Snow being in that tower where Ned was looking for his sister?


I bet they'll get pissed about that being a leak....of course it's just a theory it's not from the books technically.

But I've also seen them argue whether the R+L=J theory could even be derived from show only watchers. I think it certainly can - that 12 minute video someone made shows how much the show has mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna and the tourney and the TOJ and Jons parentage, etc.....you could take it all as backstory and not pay attention or you could think about it a while.

They talk about R+L=J generically and tell people its a theory and if they want to know about it google it.
H.E. Pennypacker
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The funny thing about the TV only thread is they talk about Clay Travis's show recaps, and he frequently includes book theories from his listeners in those.
redline248
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quote:
The funny thing about the TV only thread is they talk about Clay Travis's show recaps, and he frequently includes book theories from his listeners in those.
Yeah, but that's ok b/c he doesn't post on TexAgs
Zombie Jon Snow
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uh oh....people are starting to ask questions now....it's gonna leak.

this was funny....i think (if I recall from way back Sex Panther is a lurker over there....maybe he is trying to head them off and keep it from being spoiled....


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Any thoughts on Jon Snow being in that tower where Ned was looking for his sister?




someone else said interesting theory and another said whats the logic or story behind that theory, makes no sense....

lol


i'm gonna just go watch over there for a while.
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