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The point is, the threshold for actually charging someone with these UCMJ crimes you Googled is much greater than you appear to understand. What some of the folks here are trying to convey is that you may see something in a movie that seems preposterous but, in reality, similar (not necessarily same) situations occur more often than you would expect. The military has to prove offenses like any prosecuting lawyer does. It's a lot more than some officer taking offense and cranking out an Article 15 to get a court martial going before lunch.

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If "similar (not necessarily the same) situation occur more than I would expect" then how come none of the samples cited come anywhere close? Private Reiben was supposedly upset that his buddies were getting killed for a stupid mission. So what is his solution? Desert his squad putting them in even more danger while they continue the mission down one man? That's preposterous. If that attitude were typical in the US military, then I wouldn't have anywhere near the level of respect for the military that I do.

I was in the corps for 4 years and nearly half of my buddies served in the army/marines. I also know many more from my line of work. Not one of them would have this attitude. In fact, it would be the opposite. If given the choice between abandoning their unit and staying with them, they have always chosen the latter. Several did so at the expense of their marriages and families at home resulting in divorce.

To make SPR more realistic, I would have had the men try to convince Captain Miller that the mission was a waste of time (which they did do in the movie), but when the decision was made to go, they recognize their obligations to each other (except for Corporal Upham) and vow to keep each other safe. Spielberg could have made that far more captivating. He could have made it where during the final battle that a few of the men had to choose between each other and Private Ryan. Or he could have made Ryan sacrifice himself to save the group resulting in them having infinitely more respect for him than the day prior. That would have been unexpected and awesome, IMO. Instead we get nearly the whole team killed in an idiotic last stand and private Ryan saved at the last moment by P-51s with incredible timing.

I have similar complaints with other Spielberg movies. War of the Worlds was visually stunning. But the interactions between the characters was absolutely terrible. From Dakota Fanning being annoying as hell, to the brother having some ridiculous desire to fight the aliens with his bare hands, to the whole Tim Robbins part, etc. SPR is no different.

Words, words and more words, and for what exactly? Are you trying to convince me to not watch it every time it comes on network tv? Cause that ain't happening.

One more thing...it's a M O V I E

I watch the D-day scene every time it's on too. And I will continue. It just sucks that the rest of the movie couldn't have just as good.

About the "it's a MOVIE" part.. I am the guy who realizes that. It's others around here who make it seem like I'm insulting their kid or something.

He just wants the world to think he's right. This is aTmAg and this is his MO. He's done this before and will, with 100% certainty, do it again.

Everything after the dday sucks and ATM has a point.

I surprised Speilberg didnt bring in aliens.

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I watch the D-day scene every time it's on too. And I will continue. It just sucks that the rest of the movie couldn't have just as good.

About the "it's a MOVIE" part.. I am the guy who realizes that. It's others around here who make it seem like I'm insulting their kid or something.

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Since you brought them up, I'll wait for your threads about things in Band of Brothers and We Were Soldiers that annoy you.

I think Band of Brothers is awesome. Best war mini-series (or movie) so far. I wish it gave Sobel a little more credit than it did, but I cant think of anything offhand that made the screen that I would complain about. I think the reason it was so much better than The Pacific is beause it was based off of Ambrose's book. Spielberg has less leeway to screw with the story line. If he had free reign, then it would probably have sucked.

I also think We Were Soldiers was great. After reading about Rick Rescorla on 9/11 I wish he was in the movie more. But again, I like what was included in the movie. I watch both of those every chance I get.

It always amazes me how people continue to disrespect/underrate Spielberg. Is he "cliche" sometimes? Sure. But more often than not, it's a cliche that he himself popularized.

When you have the following movies in your resume, it's hard to deny he's the best of the best.
Jaws
Close Encounters
ET
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Jurassic Park
Schindler's List
Saving Private Ryan
Minority Report
Catch Me If You Can
Munich

Spielberg is great at creating visual spectacles. Stories and human interactions, not so much. You notice that his best movies typically are based on true stories or were written by somebody else.

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It always amazes me how people continue to disrespect/underrate Spielberg. Is he "cliche" sometimes? Sure. But more often than not, it's a cliche that he himself popularized.

When you have the following movies in your resume, it's hard to deny he's the best of the best.
Jaws
Close Encounters
ET
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Jurassic Park
Schindler's List
Saving Private Ryan
Minority Report
Catch Me If You Can
Munich

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Oh I'm a huge Spielberg fan, but i don't think Saving Private Ryan is in his top 5-10. nonetheless, I place SVP in a category more like pulp fiction, like I said.

Hey have any of yall done the 4D experience at the Dday Museum?

You are clearly a troll but I've got time to toss some nuggets under the bridge:

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If "similar (not necessarily the same) situation occur more than I would expect" then how come none of the samples cited come anywhere close? Private Reiben was supposedly upset that his buddies were getting killed for a stupid mission. So what is his solution? Desert his squad putting them in even more danger while they continue the mission down one man? That's preposterous. If that attitude were typical in the US military, then I wouldn't have anywhere near the level of respect for the military that I do.

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You respect the idealized version of the military that you want to believe exists. Our military is full of normal Americans and Americans, by nature, think independently. We train and train and train but we still don't have a military full of mindless killbots. Just because you are ignoring the nuances of the real examples provided doesn't mean reality lines up with your worldview. No one said it was widespread, just that it happens from time to time and, yes, sometimes goes unpunished (formally).

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I was in the corps for 4 years and nearly half of my buddies served in the army/marines.

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You serious Clark? In case you didn't know already, the CoC =/= the real military. ...and proximity to people who have served does not mean a hill of beans when trying to justify an opinion formed off of a Google search.

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I also know many more from my line of work. Not one of them would have this attitude. In fact, it would be the opposite. If given the choice between abandoning their unit and staying with them, they have always chosen the latter. Several did so at the expense of their marriages and families at home resulting in divorce.

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Again, you're banking on your idealism (that, unfortunately, isn't how the world really is) buttressed by a small sample size. I am glad you have friends and associates of high moral character, however. Good for you. The hundreds of thousands of men and women in the armed forces yield plenty of bad apples. Some are bad for a moment and others are bad to their core. Some are appropriately dealt with, some snake their way all the way to retirement. it ain't pretty, but it's the truth.

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To make SPR more realistic, I would have had the men try to convince Captain Miller that the mission was a waste of time (which they did do in the movie), but when the decision was made to go, they recognize their obligations to each other (except for Corporal Upham) and vow to keep each other safe.

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You should see Lone Survivor, they have this exact scene! Perhaps your problem lies in not choosing the right film to suit your storytelling expectations.

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Spielberg could have made that far more captivating. He could have made it where during the final battle that a few of the men had to choose between each other and Private Ryan. Or he could have made Ryan sacrifice himself to save the group resulting in them having infinitely more respect for him than the day prior. That would have been unexpected and awesome, IMO. Instead we get nearly the whole team killed in an idiotic last stand and private Ryan saved at the last moment by P-51s with incredible timing.

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Things that annoy me about Saving Private Ryan: aTmAg's opinions about Saving Private Ryan.

See, this is typically when an argument would be over. A normal person would concede or simply not post again. Let's see what happens!

DOUBLE DOWN!!!

I just remembered something:

aTmAg's favorite war movie had a clear example of disobeying orders. In Episode 8 (pretty sure it was 8) of Band of Brothers, Dick Winters disobeys superiors when they instruct him to go on another prisoner run across the river.

But surely aTmAg hates that portrayal of the American soldier since it obviously wouldn't have happened that way; that an American GI officer would disobey a direct order. All of his fellow officers would surely have turned him in and he would have faced charges. He might have discussed it with his superiors, but in the end he would have sent those men across on another night mission.

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aTm is surely trolling at this point. Why someone who has never served feels the need to dispute the real-life experiences of those who have is beyond me...but then I remembered I am on TexAgs.

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I'm not trolling, nor am I disputing real-life experiences. It does not require serving to know that the real-life experiences cited so far are not examples of desertion. All that takes is understanding of English. A similar example to SPR would be:

After raiding one house in Fallujah, where an American was killed, if another private in the squad openly blamed their captain for that death because the captain had the audacity to order the raid in the first place. Then for that private to refuse to enter the next house and saying, "I'm out of here" while walking off.

Cite me a story like that. Because none of the ones mentioned so far come close. Not refusing to put on helmet, not pulling a gun on a foreigner for entering the wrong door, not failing to order a counter attack, etc. None of those come close to being punishable by death, and there is a good reason why the punishment is so harsh. One real life example that does come close is Bergdahl deserting his post in a combat zone, and that made national news. The consequences for him is also as I would expect: he is being charged with desertion and will face a stiff punishment. But not in SPR. His only punishment is that he would have to endure hearing a story about teaching English literature. Which is ridiculous.

SPR's battle scenes are great. The rest of the movie is mediocre at best. Sorry to break it to you guys. Black Hawk Down, We Were Soldiers, etc. were all better except for the few battle scenes.

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Well done. I don't think I've ever witnessed a civilian dismiss so much wartime evidence. That is pretty impressive for somebody that never put on the uniform for this country.

Maybe your problem is this. The only person making unrealistic claims in this thread is you. We get it, you have a weird obsession with arguing your own made up topics.

I'll engage again when you have something worthwhile to say. As it stands, you are the same as some fobitt quoting regs to me about things you simply do not and will not, ever, understand. Stop living vicariously through your military friends and family. It is pathetic.

The problem is that he absolutely refuses to ever be wrong on any subject. He will outlast every person on here. This would go on for 6 months if you didn't let him get the last word

I guess I gave our military more respect than they deserve. I assumed that the vast majority wouldn't desert in the face of doing something dangerous leaving their fellow soldiers to fend for themselves. Thanks for setting me straight.

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I guess I gave our military more respect than they deserve. I assumed that the vast majority wouldn't desert in the face of doing something dangerous leaving their fellow soldiers to fend for themselves. Thanks for setting me straight.

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Yep, everyone here is saying that the vast majority of our military would desert. Thank you for standing up for our brave men and women.

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I guess I gave our military more respect than they deserve. I assumed that the vast majority wouldn't desert in the face of doing something dangerous leaving their fellow soldiers to fend for themselves. Thanks for setting me straight.

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So now that scene (and our examples) makes you lose respect for our military, and you've changed your stance on "the vast majority wouldn't desert" aspect (implying that more than that would desert) based on examples we've given from a few guys historically in the military?

How old are you, 12?

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I guess I gave our military more respect than they deserve. I assumed that the vast majority wouldn't desert in the face of doing something dangerous leaving their fellow soldiers to fend for themselves. Thanks for setting me straight.

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Straw men are the best!

I'm the guy saying that the whole desertion scene in SPR is bogus and would not only be extremely rare, but would not be tolerated. You guys are telling me that it is quite accurate. So apparently I guess the military is full of pathetic soldiers like pvt Reiben, and I was not aware of it. How can that be interpreted any other way?

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I'm the guy saying that the whole desertion scene in SPR is bogus and would not only be extremely rare, but would not be tolerated. You guys are telling me that it is quite accurate. So apparently I guess the military is full of pathetic soldiers like pvt Reiben, and I was not aware of it. How can that be interpreted any other way?

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Show me one person who has claimed that. I want the quote.

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I guess I gave our military more respect than they deserve. I assumed that the vast majority wouldn't desert in the face of doing something dangerous leaving their fellow soldiers to fend for themselves. Thanks for setting me straight.

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No, you assumed that not even a small percentage would desert in the face of doing something dangerous leaving their fellow soldiers to fend for themselves.

...or perhaps your issue is that the small percentage that would abandon their comrades aren't worthy of being included in a film. We should just focus on the ones that are like your corps buddies, right?

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I guess I gave our military more respect than they deserve. I assumed that the vast majority wouldn't desert in the face of doing something dangerous leaving their fellow soldiers to fend for themselves. Thanks for setting me straight.

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So now that scene (and our examples) makes you lose respect for our military, and you've changed your stance on "the vast majority wouldn't desert" aspect (implying that more than that would desert) based on examples we've given from a few guys historically in the military?

How old are you, 12?

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No, I think you guys are still full of crap. I'm just pointing out what your argument really means. I think the typical American soldier would do his duty with honor in the face of danger. You guys keep telling me that I'm wrong and that SPR is a accurate portrayal of the typical soldier (or at least the Rangers), while using your vast military experience to back yourselves up. The implication is clear.

Out of one side of your mouth you blast the film for its unrealistic portrait, then when we tell you that the scene in question is highly plausible in a war time situation, you start whining out of the other side of your mouth that your perception/dream of the American soldier is not what that scene portraits and therefore shouldn't be in the movie.

Make up your mind junior high.

I saw the thread title and wondered if I should click on the thread... didn't. Came back and saw that it has exploded and clicked. No regrets here.

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I guess I gave our military more respect than they deserve. I assumed that the vast majority wouldn't desert in the face of doing something dangerous leaving their fellow soldiers to fend for themselves. Thanks for setting me straight.

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No, you assumed that not even a small percentage would desert in the face of doing something

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SPR happened to fill the entire squad (minus Miller) from that small percentage. Not one guy, except Cpt. Miller argued that they should do their duty. They all complained about danger, whined about blowing off Ryan, argued that he was dead anyway, etc. The fact that Spielberg did that makes the movie far worse.

Straw men and red herrings! How about moving goalposts for your next trick?

Still waiting on you to backup your claims with evidence.

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I'm the guy saying that the whole desertion scene in SPR is bogus and would not only be extremely rare, but would not be tolerated. You guys are telling me that it is quite accurate. So apparently I guess the military is full of pathetic soldiers like pvt Reiben, and I was not aware of it. How can that be interpreted any other way?

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Show me one person who has claimed that. I want the quote.

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Read the whole thread. Everybody from Sapper, to you, etc. have talked about how plausible it is.

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Out of one side of your mouth you blast the film for its unrealistic portrait, then when we tell you that the scene in question is highly plausible in a war time situation, you start whining out of the other side of your mouth that your perception/dream of the American soldier is not what that scene portraits and therefore shouldn't be in the movie.

Make up your mind junior high.

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If it's really a "small percentage" then it is highly implausible that every private in that squad just so happened to be a member of it. Let's say that 5% are within the whiner set. Even if I exclude Miller and Horvath that is 5 people from that 5%. That is .0003125% probability for you math un-inclined. That makes the movie unrealistic and more crappy.

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Out of one side of your mouth you blast the film for its unrealistic portrait, then when we tell you that the scene in question is highly plausible in a war time situation, you start whining out of the other side of your mouth that your perception/dream of the American soldier is not what that scene portraits and therefore shouldn't be in the movie.

Make up your mind junior high.

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If it's really a "small percentage" then it is highly implausible that every private in that squad just so happened to be a member of it. Let's say that 5% are within the whiner set. Even if I exclude Miller and Horvath that is 5 people from that 5%. That is .0003125% probability for you math un-inclined. That makes the movie unrealistic and more crappy.

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War films are rarely made about the unexceptional.

aTmAg should read the book To Hell and Back by Audie Murphy.

America's most decorated soldier had several moments of complete disobedience of his superiors as well. But then again, that's not his idealized view of the soldier, so maybe he shouldn't read it. Might show some different ideas/thoughts than he would like.