Exactly. It would be way too confusing for general audiences and come across as incredibly desperate.

At this point, it sounds like these characters are just going to pop up in each other's movies from time to time and that'll be the extent of the crossovers/team-ups. For instance, Superman is rumored to have a cameo in Shazam, and then I'm sure there will be some kind of cameo from someone notable in Aquaman, same for Flashpoint, etc., and they'll just keep churning out the solo movies with surprise guests. Then, maybe if these next few solo movies are successful enough, there's another Justice League movie early next decade or something sans Batman.

AgMarauder04 said:

---

They were never going to be able to replicate the comic or the animated movie, both of which were excellent with the budget and limited characters of a CW show. Hell, there aren't even any other members of the main justice league in that show.

---

The problem is WB has shown no ability to replicate anything at the cinematic level at this point. They have decades of fantastic stories to pull from and have been able to put together one decent movie so far.

It's pretty much what Marvel does.

Except Marvel has a plan, and DC seems to be just flinging crap against a wall to see what sticks.

This is my issue. I love Marvel, I do....

That being said, I find the DC characters and stories so much more compelling. I think the depth from which they can pull material is so much better, and this mediocre crap is the best we can get. For the life of me, I don't get it. I wanted JL to be "it." I was so disappointed in what they did to it. I'm still holding out hope at some point they'll figure it out.

Exactly. With Marvel, we've always known that the gang is getting back together every three years or so. But with DC, it's looking like they're just hoping this new crop of solo movies works out so they can maybe do another team-up in three or four years.

I think it all just boils down to Snyder being a controversial director. The whole "you just don't understand my art" makes me really not like the guy as a director. If Snyder hadn't screwed the pooch, Ayer wouldn't have had so many changes to Suicide Squad. Jenkins did well with WW, and Wan seems to be doing really well with Aquaman. I think the Homecoming writers will do good things for Flash (even though I'm really not a fan of Homecoming but that's more because of my disdain for Spider-Man).

I think so much is riding on Aquaman just because it is the first movie that is after Justice League and WB allegedly hasn't interfered with Wan.

You know this, a lot of us have said it, but my biggest gripe with DC is they don't have a plan or strategy. It was all 100% reaction to Marvel from the beginning....because they panicked and thought by the time they got their crap together, Superhero fatigue would have set in and the income potential gone.

I agree, I think the actors (aside from maybe Cyborg) are very solid. If they would take a step back, reassess, come up with a solid plan and strategy, find the right writers and directors, the "ship can be righted." It certainly doesn't require a reboot that will cause more harm than good.

AgMarauder04 said:

---

This is my issue. I love Marvel, I do....

That being said, I find the DC characters and stories so much more compelling. I think the depth from which they can pull material is so much better, and this mediocre crap is the best we can get. For the life of me, I don't get it. I wanted JL to be "it." I was so disappointed in what they did to it. I'm still holding out hope at some point they'll figure it out.

---

We'll see if they can turn it around this December. Most of the criticism for the bad movies seems to always go towards Zack Snyder (I liked his movies personally) and WB executives meddling in the movies too much (supposedly is changing).

I also am a much much bigger fan of the DC characters and stories than Marvel even though they put out better movies.

I hope you're right, and tbh, Aquaman was one of my favorite parts of JL. He was just plain FUN.

I love the Marvel movies, but in trying to follow Marvel comics/stories outside of the movies, I just realized how much more I like the DC characters. DC I actually care about the characters (not the JL Batman quips), but Marvel I really enjoy the actors and care about them more than the characters (RDJ is my favorite actor).

I'm with you 100%

Khal Drogo under the sea? Yes please. I think this movie is going to be badass.

I would say that I will give up on DC if it isn't, but let's get real. My butt will be in the theater opening night for any DC movie, and really any superhero movie.

I don't see the DCEU actually having any sort of sustained success until they abandon their designed by committee approach and find their Kevin Feige. They might get a good film here or there but there's zero consistency and nothing tying things together.

Till then we're repeating the same process and expecting different results.

Quote:

---

Am I the only who thinks resetting even part of the DCEU in Flashpoint sounds like a terrible idea? The movies may be bad, but the casting/actors have been great for the most part. At this point, I don't know how they do any better than Gal Gadot or Henry Cavill in those two rolls, specifically.

---

I agree.

But, I could've sworn you had been sort of championing the idea of WB throwing out the DCEU altogether and starting over. (Unless I'm mixing you up with another poster?)

Did you change your mind?

Agree with finding their Feige. I though they had a guy from the comics (Johns maybe?) that was supposed to be their godfather for the DCEU going forward.

Whoever is running things for the DC animated universe is doing a pretty good job

Brian Earl Spilner said:

---

Quote:

---

Am I the only who thinks resetting even part of the DCEU in Flashpoint sounds like a terrible idea? The movies may be bad, but the casting/actors have been great for the most part. At this point, I don't know how they do any better than Gal Gadot or Henry Cavill in those two rolls, specifically.

---

I agree.

But, I could've sworn you had been sort of championing the idea of WB throwing out the DCEU altogether and starting over. (Unless I'm mixing you up with another poster?)

Did you change your mind?

---

I think he was talking about WB dumping DC and DC establishing their own studio out from under the WB Umbrella.

How about they give up on the shared universe? Release the best Supeman movie you can make, then the best Wonder woman, then the best Batman, etc. Every five years or so release the best Justice League you can.
This leads to cool ideas like a Gotham by Gaslight movie, a Justice League Dark movie, a Red Son movie.
You could even claim it's the same concept as the DC Multiverse.

TCTTS said:

---

Affleck is likely done regardless. Batman is getting recast. And the thought of watching another actor try to play the same role in this world, in this continuity, doesn't even remotely excite me. Do people really want to see a solo Batman movie, with a different actor, set in the same world where aliens now exist? A world with Amazons and Gods and Green Lanterns? Watching Batman go back to playing criminal detective in that world seems kind of dumb and anticlimactic now. Personally, I would much rather Batman exist in his own, more grounded/noir reality, where none of this fantastical sci-fi stuff exists.

I would much rather see the DCEU finish up with Aquaman, a Wonder Woman sequel, and then MAYBE wrap it all up where it began, with Superman in a Man of Steel sequel. And then just call it a day. No reboot of the DCEU after or anything like that. But at that point, start a separate, solo Batman franchise again. The one Reeves is hinting at with more of a detective/noir feel, but it's own thing, not part of any bigger universe.

---

I guess you were talking about Batman, specifically.

I just hate the idea of rebooting anything in DC at this point, be it Batman or the DCEU in general.

Man of Steel deserved a sequel.

Batman v Superman should've, at the absolute soonest, come after Man of Steel 2.

Yeah, I hear you. Those are good points.

fig96 said:

---

I don't see the DCEU actually having any sort of sustained success until they abandon their designed by committee approach and find their Kevin Feige. They might get a good film here or there but there's zero consistency and nothing tying things together.

Till then we're repeating the same process and expecting different results.

---

what's sad is that marvel had already laid out the blue print. it seems like DC was either impatient or afraid that the comic book movie bubble would pop.

jackie childs said:

---

fig96 said:

---

I don't see the DCEU actually having any sort of sustained success until they abandon their designed by committee approach and find their Kevin Feige. They might get a good film here or there but there's zero consistency and nothing tying things together.

Till then we're repeating the same process and expecting different results.

---

what's sad is that marvel had already laid out the blue print. it seems like DC was either impatient or afraid that the comic book movie bubble would pop.

---

Seriously.

Imagine if we'd gotten two Superman films, Wonder Woman, a good noir Batman, and then Aquaman with a Justice League tease. I'd be so in.

Quote:

---

reek of panic/desperation

---

They've already displayed this in droves simply by how they've gone about doing these movies. They saw what Marvel was able to do with The Avengers and wanted to get to that level immediately. With nary a consideration to the efforts that Marvel put together with 5 stand-alone movies that introduced these characters prior to going yard with the first team-up movie. I have to think that if WB had done Man of Steel, followed by Wonder Woman, followed by Aquaman, and then movies focused on other JL characters (I'd say they absolutely should have included a Green Lantern movie in there), with perhaps Batman v Superman coming in toward the end of the cycle of introductory movies ... maybe that would have worked better.

And yeah, there are all kinds of problems with these movies, but having said that, I've enjoyed all of them. None have come at me with the anticipation that I have for Infinity War, however, and I say that as one who, growing up, was much more familiar with Superman, Batman, WW, and Aquaman due to Saturday morning cartoons (rather than being an avid comics reader) than I ever was with any of the Marvel characters, with the exception of the Hulk (because of the 70s TV series). I knew who Captain America was, but that was about it; never heard of Iron Man and might have heard the name "Thor" at some point growing up.

I really wish these DC movies had approached the level of quality that the Marvel movies have.

They did BvS so early as a way to introduce Batman in a similar way to the first issue of Justice League of New 52. It would have worked better if Snyder and Terrio had a better way than Martha for those two to reconcile their differences.

Blame Man of Steel. Had that movie been like 10% better we almost assuredly wouldn't be in this mess...

- Summer 2012, WB/DC was still on top of the world. Granted, The Dark Knight Rises wasn't as well received as TDK, but nothing could have lived up to those lefty expectations. Either way, July 2012 saw not only TDKR hit theaters, but the first teaser for Man of Steel was attached to it, which we were all over the moon for. WB was ending one massively successful trilogy and had every intention of launching another the very next year.

- However, that same summer saw The Avengers debut in May. It was obviously a massive success, and the culmination of four years of Marvel doing their thing, but even then, Nolan and The Dark Knight Trilogy were still king. Marvel was Rocky and had cut the Russian (DC), but at that point in the fight the Russian was still the favorite.

- It wasn't until next year, when Man of Steel did less than stellar numbers in June 2013, that WB finally panicked. With the MCU in full force, WB decided - less than a month after MoS's release - to pivot and announce Batman V Superman at Comic-Con that July. Understand that when Man of Steel hit theaters a month earlier, a BvS follow-up was absolutely not the plan. But WB knew that a pure Man of Steel sequel would fare worse at the box office than its predecessor, so they moved hastily to inject Batman into the equation without any kind of plan.

- After the Comi-Con announcement, WB even offered Christian Bale $50M to reprise his role as Batman, but he refused. In other words, WB was suddenly so desperate that they tried to mesh Nolan's movies with their new DCEU. Finally, however, they cast Affleck instead, decided to make the DCEU a completely new thing, stuff Wonder Woman in BvS as well in a fevered attempt at over-correction, and the rest is history.

It was that sh*t storm that set a precedent they somehow never recovered from.

bthomas98 said:

---

Agree with finding their Feige. I though they had a guy from the comics (Johns maybe?) that was supposed to be their godfather for the DCEU going forward.

Whoever is running things for the DC animated universe is doing a pretty good job

---

They did appoint Geoff Johns in sort of their "Feige" role but I have yet to see any substantial leadership from him, and there have continued to be really weird movies announced since he took on the role. He's an awesome story teller and leader in the comics, but not sure he has the abilities that Feige has.

IMO, the failure of Man of Steel, BvS and Justice League was WB/DC's insistence on using Snyder and then continuing with him as each film failed more than the last. Then handing over JL to Whedon in the 11th hour and interfering and sticking with an unrealistic release date gave us a disjointed film that showed potential at points.

To me, the only DC character that fits in the dark Snyder worldview is Batman. The rest, particularly Superman, should have a more colorful and vibrant world.

FTACO97 said:

---

The rest, particularly Superman, should have a more colorful and vibrant world.

---

I would love to see a Guardians-esque vibrant world in a Green Lanterns movie

You never say no to Nolan - as he was Man of Steel's initial champion, before the screenplay was written - but I always wonder what a J.J. Abrams-directed Superman could have been. He wrote multiple drafts in '03/'04, the last of which was pretty damn great. Around the time of the release Star Trek, once he solidified himself as a blockbuster director, Abrams said he would love to direct that script. If only WB would have locked him down around then, I really think he could have brought the proper tone - that vibrant, hopeful, colorful world - that a Superman movie needed and it would have likely been a massive success. Instead, summer 2013 gave us the Abrams-directed Star Trek Into Darkness and we got the Snyder version of Superman. Just think, both of those wrongs could have been righted with an Abrams Superman movie that summer.

Yeah I think JJ could've done it right, if he had captured the spirit of the first Star Trek with Clark Kent.

Star Trek is also one of the most vibrant movies I've ever seen and uses color really well... Plus Supes would've looked dope with some lens flares.

It's ironic that Man of Steel is easily the best movie in the DCEU.

Lens flare Superman would have been dope. And yeah, the tone/look of Trek would have been the perfect template.

Abrams' script's final fight was so cool, too. It was basically against a Zod-Like antagonist - almost the exact same character - but it started in Washington D.C. at the National Mall. Just this blatant Americana vibe in all the best ways. But once they get going, the fight literally takes them all across the world - among the pyramids, to Paris I think, etc. It's just a really fun script that, with a brief rewrite/update all those years later, could have been amazing.

JJ with Superman would have been great... and oddly I kinda really like the notion of a Snyder Star Trek <ducks>.