IM2 isn't bad, but it's in the bottom 2 of the MCU with Hulk. I think IM3 is somewhere in the middle of the pack.
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Jesus Christ.
My ONLY worry is no James Gunn on Infinity War. He is the GotG. B1th.
My ONLY worry is no James Gunn on Infinity War. He is the GotG. B1th.
It has its issues but I really like it more than most as well. Shane Black man.TCTTS said:
I loved IM3 so much, so I probably don't fall in that category.
Exactly. Shane Black. It's just so funny overall, and I love how pissed off all the fanboys got that Ben Kingsley literally ended up "playing" The Mandarin - in the movie. I thought that was a stroke of genius, and I can't believe Black/Marvel were able to pull that off in the way they did.
I actually really liked that Mandarin was just got show. But I really hated Killian and the extremis nonsense.
My pants feel a little tighter after watching this...jabberwalkie09 said:
Fiege outright states "the Avengers meet the Guardians" in that.
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"Incredible roster of well-developed characters" - Kevin Fiege
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
This has been my arguments since Man of Steel. Instead of taking time to develop characters, they shoehorned everyone into BvS because DC shat a collective brick when Marvel all of a sudden started creating both critically acclaimed and financial successful films. DC felt they had to play catch up and sacrificed world building and having us buy into the characters for speed.MooreTrucker said:
"Incredible roster of well-developed characters" - Kevin Fiege
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
(Also, having Zack "everything must be dark, gritty, angsty, and depressing" Snyder didn't help)
And having to overcome Burton and Schumaker screwing up Batman, then Nolan rebuilding it. IT's all so disjointed from the beginning. No consistent "universe" vision.AgMarauder04 said:This has been my arguments since Man of Steel. Instead of taking time to develop characters, they shoehorned everyone into BvS because DC shat a collective brick when Marvel all of a sudden started creating both critically acclaimed and financial successful films. DC felt they had to play catch up and sacrificed world building and having us buy into the characters for speed.MooreTrucker said:
"Incredible roster of well-developed characters" - Kevin Fiege
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
(Also, having Zack "everything must be dark, gritty, angsty, and depressing" Snyder didn't help)
I think the difference is the roster. While DC has the holy trinity of superheroes, it's depended on those three too much and not developed the rest. Marvel created multiple teams and had solo heroes all get enough development. Its hard for DC to develop characters when basically all of them are in the Justice League and they are in the shadow of those three. And if any of those three are not in JL, the team seems wasted and fewer people care. I grew up a DC fan, but Marvel is doing a fantastic job and is blowing DC out the water.AgMarauder04 said:This has been my arguments since Man of Steel. Instead of taking time to develop characters, they shoehorned everyone into BvS because DC shat a collective brick when Marvel all of a sudden started creating both critically acclaimed and financial successful films. DC felt they had to play catch up and sacrificed world building and having us buy into the characters for speed.MooreTrucker said:
"Incredible roster of well-developed characters" - Kevin Fiege
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
(Also, having Zack "everything must be dark, gritty, angsty, and depressing" Snyder didn't help)
Superman, Batman, and WW?Dread Pirate Roberts said:I think the difference is the roster. While DC has the holy trinity of superheroes, it's depended on those three too much and not developed the rest. Marvel created multiple teams and had solo heroes all get enough development. Its hard for DC to develop characters when basically all of them are in the Justice League and they are in the shadow of those three. And if any of those three are not in JL, the team seems wasted and fewer people care. I grew up a DC fan, but Marvel is doing a fantastic job and is blowing DC out the water.AgMarauder04 said:This has been my arguments since Man of Steel. Instead of taking time to develop characters, they shoehorned everyone into BvS because DC shat a collective brick when Marvel all of a sudden started creating both critically acclaimed and financial successful films. DC felt they had to play catch up and sacrificed world building and having us buy into the characters for speed.MooreTrucker said:
"Incredible roster of well-developed characters" - Kevin Fiege
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
(Also, having Zack "everything must be dark, gritty, angsty, and depressing" Snyder didn't help)
I could see Flash and Green Arrow based on the TV shows, and Green Lantern done WAY better than the first attempt. The other can be introduced in the solo or JL films like Black Widow, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, and Vision in the Marvel movies.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.MooreTrucker said:And having to overcome Burton ... screwing up Batman, then Nolan rebuilding it. IT's all so disjointed from the beginning. No consistent "universe" vision.AgMarauder04 said:This has been my arguments since Man of Steel. Instead of taking time to develop characters, they shoehorned everyone into BvS because DC shat a collective brick when Marvel all of a sudden started creating both critically acclaimed and financial successful films. DC felt they had to play catch up and sacrificed world building and having us buy into the characters for speed.MooreTrucker said:
"Incredible roster of well-developed characters" - Kevin Fiege
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
(Also, having Zack "everything must be dark, gritty, angsty, and depressing" Snyder didn't help)
Without Burton and Keaton, there is no Iron Man, no Avengers, no GoTG. Without a doubt, Schumacher screwed up what Burton had done and set back comic movies almost a decade. However, we all owe Tim Burton and Michael Keaton a great deal of respect for the golden age of Marvel we're in right now.
Dread Pirate Roberts said:I think the difference is the roster. While DC has the holy trinity of superheroes, it's depended on those three too much and not developed the rest. Marvel created multiple teams and had solo heroes all get enough development. Its hard for DC to develop characters when basically all of them are in the Justice League and they are in the shadow of those three. And if any of those three are not in JL, the team seems wasted and fewer people care. I grew up a DC fan, but Marvel is doing a fantastic job and is blowing DC out the water.AgMarauder04 said:This has been my arguments since Man of Steel. Instead of taking time to develop characters, they shoehorned everyone into BvS because DC shat a collective brick when Marvel all of a sudden started creating both critically acclaimed and financial successful films. DC felt they had to play catch up and sacrificed world building and having us buy into the characters for speed.MooreTrucker said:
"Incredible roster of well-developed characters" - Kevin Fiege
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
(Also, having Zack "everything must be dark, gritty, angsty, and depressing" Snyder didn't help)
That's hilarious
Burton's vision of Batman was great. It's not Nolan, but he brought the dark back into the the Dark Knight (on screen anyway).
Yeah, I can see that, and I'm letting my dislike for Burton color what I see. I liked the first one with Keaton and Nicholson (who was the perfect Joker to me), but the others all sucked. I was NOT a fan of Penquin and Catwoman in the second Burton movie, but again it was Burton style that I'm a huge NOT fan of.GiveEmHellBill said:Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.MooreTrucker said:And having to overcome Burton ... screwing up Batman, then Nolan rebuilding it. IT's all so disjointed from the beginning. No consistent "universe" vision.AgMarauder04 said:This has been my arguments since Man of Steel. Instead of taking time to develop characters, they shoehorned everyone into BvS because DC shat a collective brick when Marvel all of a sudden started creating both critically acclaimed and financial successful films. DC felt they had to play catch up and sacrificed world building and having us buy into the characters for speed.MooreTrucker said:
"Incredible roster of well-developed characters" - Kevin Fiege
Therein lies the reason that DC is so behind Marvel in good comic book movies, and why DC will continue to lag behind. DC is trying too hard to cram into a couple of years what Marvel has been developing since the first IM in 2008.
(Also, having Zack "everything must be dark, gritty, angsty, and depressing" Snyder didn't help)
Without Burton and Keaton, there is no Iron Man, no Avengers, no GoTG. Without a doubt, Schumacher screwed up what Burton had done and set back comic movies almost a decade. However, we all owe Tim Burton and Michael Keaton a great deal of respect for the golden age of Marvel we're in right now.
I think DeVito's Penguin has been the second best Batman villain to Ledger's Joker.
Bruce Almighty said:
I think DeVito's Penguin has been the second best Batman villain to Ledger's Joker.
Definitely the second darkest villain after Ledger's Joker imo. As someone who grew up with Hamill's version from Bruce Timm and still ranks Batman Mask of the Phantasm pretty highly even among the live action Batman films, Ledger's is perhaps the perfect live action incarnation we will ever have.
Some people say that Marvel actually benefited from not having the rights to Spider-Man and the X-Men. They had to take relative B-listers and actually create good character arcs and have good writing to pull it off. It's hard to picture now, but when Thor and Captain America came out in 2011, you couldn't just slap the Marvel name on something and immediately make half a billion.
I think, in a way, the instant popularity of some of these franchises is what leads to lazy writing and poor decision making. Sony just knew that the Amazing Spider-Man 2 was going to be so good, that people would actually want a 3 and 4, plus a Sinister Six movie, a Venom film and an Aunt Mae solo film. Aunt Mae?!
For BvS, all the promo material teased a confrontation between the two most iconic characters in comic book history, and it broke all kinds of online ticket sales. But the 90 minutes leading up to (and in my opinion, the fight itself) were too contrived and poorly written to warrant a re-watch. So maybe the easy success of having Batman and Superman kind of ruined the rest of production.
It would be just like DC to have successes with some films and turn Aquaman and Harley Quinn from B-listers to recognizable superstars, and then go "man... if only we could rehab Superman and Batman and make them likeable again."
Iron Man and Deadpool were hungry underdogs, in a way, but Batman and Superman and Amazing Spider-Man got fat and happy. Just my two cents.
I think, in a way, the instant popularity of some of these franchises is what leads to lazy writing and poor decision making. Sony just knew that the Amazing Spider-Man 2 was going to be so good, that people would actually want a 3 and 4, plus a Sinister Six movie, a Venom film and an Aunt Mae solo film. Aunt Mae?!
For BvS, all the promo material teased a confrontation between the two most iconic characters in comic book history, and it broke all kinds of online ticket sales. But the 90 minutes leading up to (and in my opinion, the fight itself) were too contrived and poorly written to warrant a re-watch. So maybe the easy success of having Batman and Superman kind of ruined the rest of production.
It would be just like DC to have successes with some films and turn Aquaman and Harley Quinn from B-listers to recognizable superstars, and then go "man... if only we could rehab Superman and Batman and make them likeable again."
Iron Man and Deadpool were hungry underdogs, in a way, but Batman and Superman and Amazing Spider-Man got fat and happy. Just my two cents.
Marvel turned a B-List Hero in Iron Man (yeah, I said it. I don't care. Fight me) into a legit star.
You made some excellent points. They had to make GOOD movies with good writers, directors, and actors to make money.
You made some excellent points. They had to make GOOD movies with good writers, directors, and actors to make money.
FIFYAgMarauder04 said:MarvelRobert Downey Jr. turned a B-List Hero in Iron Man (yeah, I said it. I don't care. Fight me) into a legit star.
You made some excellent points. They had to make GOOD movies with good writers, directors, and actors to make money.
I think Deadpool in particular benefitted from a self-awareness that's lacking in most films.
It was obvious from the test footage that "leaked" that the creators totally understood the character and knew exactly who he was, and they nailed that tone throughout the marketing. They didn't try to make him darker or cooler or anything he wasn't already (taking notes DC?), and that carried through and made for a really enjoyable film.
I'm waiting for another R rated superhero film because "it worked for Deadpool!"
It was obvious from the test footage that "leaked" that the creators totally understood the character and knew exactly who he was, and they nailed that tone throughout the marketing. They didn't try to make him darker or cooler or anything he wasn't already (taking notes DC?), and that carried through and made for a really enjoyable film.
I'm waiting for another R rated superhero film because "it worked for Deadpool!"
MooreTrucker said:FIFYAgMarauder04 said:MarvelRobert Downey Jr. turned a B-List Hero in Iron Man (yeah, I said it. I don't care. Fight me) into a legit star.
You made some excellent points. They had to make GOOD movies with good writers, directors, and actors to make money.
I think that's an element of it as well, and I would agree that he's a large part of why the character works so well.
I actually would say that's probably true for the majority of the cast in the MCU, save for Natalie Portman as Jane. I'm perfect fine if she doesn't appear in any other MCU films.
I think it's a point of how EVERYTHING is important.jabberwalkie09 said:MooreTrucker said:FIFYAgMarauder04 said:MarvelRobert Downey Jr. turned a B-List Hero in Iron Man (yeah, I said it. I don't care. Fight me) into a legit star.
You made some excellent points. They had to make GOOD movies with good writers, directors, and actors to make money.
I think that's an element of it as well, and I would agree that he's a large part of why the character works so well.
I actually would say that's probably true for the majority of the cast in the MCU, save for Natalie Portman as Jane. I'm perfect fine if she doesn't appear in any other MCU films.
Look at BvS. Most people were HUGE fans of Batfleck and Gadot, but the writing and directing made the movie hot trash.
Marvel has cast most of its titular characters PERFECTLY, matched them with entertaining scripts and good directors.
Logan is that movie. Though interestingly if there were a movie that needed to be R rated anyway it was a Wolverine one, but gotta thank Deadpool for pushing Fox in that direction for Logan, too.
and you don't think Marvel (and Favreau) deserves any credit for that? it's not like they were casting "sure thing" 2017 RDJ as Iron Man. They took a considerable risk and it proved to be the perfect choice. Both Marvel and RDJ have benefitted tremendously from it.MooreTrucker said:FIFYAgMarauder04 said:MarvelRobert Downey Jr. turned a B-List Hero in Iron Man (yeah, I said it. I don't care. Fight me) into a legit star.
You made some excellent points. They had to make GOOD movies with good writers, directors, and actors to make money.
Oh definitely. I just meant exactly what you said, that RDJ was perfect for the role and that jumpstarted the whole thing. If someone else had done it (Nic Cage, for example) who knows where we'd be?
Fair point, but as noted it's not out of character for a Wolverine film to go there. And it's definitely not going to be Deadpoolisraeliag said:
Logan is that movie. Though interestingly if there were a movie that needed to be R rated anyway it was a Wolverine one, but gotta thank Deadpool for pushing Fox in that direction for Logan, too.
It was almost Cruise.MooreTrucker said:
Oh definitely. I just meant exactly what you said, that RDJ was perfect for the role and that jumpstarted the whole thing. If someone else had done it (Nic Cage, for example) who knows where we'd be?
Quote:
I don't know. It just they came to me at a certain point and when I do something, I wanna do it right. If I commit to something, it has to be done in a way that I know it's gonna be something special. And as it was lining up, it just didn't feel to me like it was gonna work.
Strangely enough I think he would have made a great Ironman.
aggie1906 said:It was almost Cruise.MooreTrucker said:
Oh definitely. I just meant exactly what you said, that RDJ was perfect for the role and that jumpstarted the whole thing. If someone else had done it (Nic Cage, for example) who knows where we'd be?Quote:
I don't know. It just they came to me at a certain point and when I do something, I wanna do it right. If I commit to something, it has to be done in a way that I know it's gonna be something special. And as it was lining up, it just didn't feel to me like it was gonna work.
Strangely enough I think he would have made a great Ironman.
aggie1906 said:It was almost Cruise.MooreTrucker said:
Oh definitely. I just meant exactly what you said, that RDJ was perfect for the role and that jumpstarted the whole thing. If someone else had done it (Nic Cage, for example) who knows where we'd be?Quote:
I don't know. It just they came to me at a certain point and when I do something, I wanna do it right. If I commit to something, it has to be done in a way that I know it's gonna be something special. And as it was lining up, it just didn't feel to me like it was gonna work.
Strangely enough I think he would have made a great Ironman.
Oh **** no. **** NO! Thank god it ended up not being Cruise. Not only is he completely wrong for that role, but I firmly believe it would have completely changed the whole Marvel film universe they've built.
I agree with the above posts about marvel developing these characters over years. That's why suicide squad didn't do much for me. I didn't care about any of them because I had to learn all of their backstories in a montage.
Marvel, on the other hand, made an entire movie about a guy who can control ants. Ants!
Marvel, on the other hand, made an entire movie about a guy who can control ants. Ants!
texasaggie04 said:
I agree with the above posts about marvel developing these characters over years. That's why suicide squad didn't do much for me. I didn't care about any of them because I had to learn all of their backstories in a montage.
Marvel, on the other hand, made an entire movie about a guy who can control ants. Ants!
I finally got around to watching suicide squad and I think Slipknot just epitomized the problem with the DC Movies. He literally got introduced, was told not to run off or he'd die, and then he ran off and they killed him
I mean wtf was the point?
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