ABATTBQ11 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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It's not that a woman is directing a Star Wars movie, it's that this woman is directing a Star Wars movie. You keep confusing being anti-activist with being anti-women. They're not the same thing.

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What has this woman done that upsets you

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What has she done that makes you think she's a good fit for this instead of a DEI pick?

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For all we know she could have given a killer pitch. Also, first-time live-action feature directors have knocked movies out of the park based on less experience than having directed a number of documentaries, animated films, and TV episodes.

The point is, A) we don't know yet, and B) just because she's proud to be the first woman to direct a Star Wars movie doesn't mean she's the wrong woman for the job. There are zero correlations between those two things. In the same way no one here can guarantee she'll be good, no one here can guarantee that she'll be bad either, based on an innocuous excerpt from an interview.

If Disney wants a female directing a Rey centric movie, after two men already had their shot, would I rather it be, say, Kathryne Bigalow, Gina Prince-Bythewood, Nia DaCosta, or Kari Skogland? Sure. But at this point, after so much disappointment and zero expectations, do I mind if they give Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy a shot? Absolutely not. Why anyone else does, to the degree of getting angry about it on the internet in the dumbest, most cliched way possible, is beyond me.

I feel like the only argument needed is that South Park has already covered the woke / DEI part of Disney. Which of course means it's so over the top that it's true

Bryce Dallas Howard would have been great. She did a pretty good job on Star Wars properties already.

Brutal

TCTTS said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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It's not that a woman is directing a Star Wars movie, it's that this woman is directing a Star Wars movie. You keep confusing being anti-activist with being anti-women. They're not the same thing.

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What has this woman done that upsets you

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What has she done that makes you think she's a good fit for this instead of a DEI pick?

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For all we know she could have given a killer pitch. Also, first-time live-action feature directors have knocked movies out of the park based on less experience than having directed a number of documentaries, animated films, and TV episodes.

The point is, A) we don't know yet, and B) just because she's proud to be the first woman to direct a Star Wars movie doesn't mean she's the wrong woman for the job. There are zero correlations between those two things. In the same way no one here can guarantee she'll be good, no one here can guarantee that she'll be bad either, based on an innocuous excerpt from an interview.

If Disney wants a female directing a Rey centric movie, after two men already had their shot, would I rather it be, say, Kathryne Bigalow, Gina Prince-Bythewood, Nia DaCosta, or Kari Skogland? Sure. But at this point, after so much disappointment and zero expectations, do I mind if they give Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy a shot? Absolutely not. Why anyone else does, to the degree of getting angry about it on the internet in the dumbest, most cliched way possible, is beyond me.

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Keep goaltending brah.

Goaltending what, exactly?

Even though I asked point blank, not a single person here has cared to explain how "girl power"/wokeness has seriously or tangibly affected the franchise box office, or what, specifically, makes Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy the wrong woman for the job, outside of an innocuous quote. Instead, it's the same, tired bullsh*t and "lol"s from a handful of man babies who live to complain, virtue signal, and be offended on the internet.

Oh I'll give it the benefit of the doubt because it's Star Wars. But the track record for the movies has been **** since TFA. I am simply not hopeful anything has changed and fear it will get worse.

Did some mention this lady directed a Ms. Marvel? Oh boy. Good luck, I Guess.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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It's not that a woman is directing a Star Wars movie, it's that this woman is directing a Star Wars movie. You keep confusing being anti-activist with being anti-women. They're not the same thing.

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What has this woman done that upsets you

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What has she done that makes you think she's a good fit for this instead of a DEI pick?

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i have no idea. I'm not in the industry. I also had no idea who Tony Gilroy was before Rogue One. I also don't know what DEI is. I answered your question, will you answer mine?

SpreadsheetAg said:

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Did some mention this lady directed a Ms. Marvel? Oh boy. Good luck, I Guess.

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She directed a couple episodes of the Ms Marvel series. I think they were pretty strong episodes.

Outside of that, she's a very accomplished documentary film maker… just not well-known here in the US.

jeffk said:

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SpreadsheetAg said:

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Did some mention this lady directed a Ms. Marvel? Oh boy. Good luck, I Guess.

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She directed a couple episodes of the Ms Marvel series. I think they were pretty strong episodes.

Outside of that, she's a very accomplished documentary film maker… just not well-known here in the US.

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This. I'm of Pakistani origin. She's done some big documentaries on social problems back in the old country.

Ms Marvel was also a lovely show. A little cringe at times but enjoyable. I think most viewers in that thread were pleasantly surprised.

The issue is, there are two different conversations that one side is trying to conflate and make the same.

Based on past Disney/Lucasfilm efforts, does the Rey movie have more than a 50% chance of sucking? Absolutely. But that's because of an impossible mandate (one movie every year starting in 2015) placed on the franchise early in the Disney era, and the history of poor stewardship and bad writing that stemmed from that "original sin."

None of which had anything to do with "girl power" or wokeness.

The Last Jedi didn't sour the franchise because it was woke. The Last Jedi soured the franchise because it felt like a f/ck you, thematically, to its immediate predecessor, and featured some really dumb ideas.

The Rise of Skywalker didn't kill the franchise, theatrically, for the time being, because it was woke. It killed the franchise because it was an incoherent, multi-McGuffin-driven over-reaction to The Last Jedi backlash... and also featured some really dumb ideas.

The Book of Boba Fett wasn't bad because it was woke. It was bad because it was a dumb, f/cked concept from the jump, executed in clownish fashion.

The third season of The Mandalorian wasn't bad because it was woke. It was bad because there was no story left to tell after the season two finale. Or, rather, the story they chose to tell was the wrong one.

I could go on and on, but the point is, none of the worst entries of the Disney era were bad because they featured female leads or pushed diversity or made anyone gay.

They were bad because they were bad.

That's it and that's all.

And if the Rey movie is bad too it won't be because a female feature film director was proud to be the first female to direct a Star Wars feature film. It'll be bad because Lucasfilm may still very well lack direction, planning, and leadership. The one advantage they have this go around is time. At the very least, they're finally taking their time to hopefully get this one right. In other words, they're addressing the original sin of rushing a bunch of movies out the door, which, once more for the cheap seats, had nothing to do with "girl power" or being woke.

It's a Star Wars project, there will likely be 3 more directors named before filming starts.

The Bomb Awakens

Oscar winning director of a documentary about:

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The extraordinary story of a young Pakistani woman who lived to tell of her narrow escape from an attempted "honor" killing by her father and uncle. Told through the lens of a true love story, the film tells the story of Saba who was shot and left for dead after marrying a man once promised to her. The result is a scathing examination of the contradictions between modernism and tradition within Pakistani society.

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Producer of a documentary about:

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Ladies First tells the story of Deepika Kumari who was born on the roadside to abject poverty in rural India, ventured out on her own at age 12 in search of food and shelter, and stumbled upon archery. Learning that team members were given a meal a day and a roof over their heads, Deepika, who'd never heard of the sport, asked for a tryout. Within four years she became the number one archer in the world, and represented India at two Olympics. We document Deepika's path to the Rio 2016 Olympics. Having to overcome the obstacles of a repressive system, she strives to achieve her dream of becoming the first Indian woman to win an Olympic Gold Medal. Talent in every country is evenly distributed amongst gender; but opportunities are unfortunately not. In India, we have squandered the unrealized talents of millions of young girls. We hope Deepika's story can help shatter India's tragedy of small expectations for girls and put LADIES FIRST

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I wonder how she will have any past work experience to continue a story about a women that pulled herself out of childhood poverty using a specialized skill set, and later survived a murder attempt by her father.

The problem with that is if it is focused on Rey. Rey has been Mary Sued already.

How do they a) reverse her back to the orphaned scavenger we see in TFA OR b) give her any perspective to train a new Jedi?

Rey didn't have to learn to use the force, she was doing mind tricks, force pull, and could fight with a light saber all before meeting a single Jedi master.

TCTTS said:

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Goaltending what, exactly?

Even though I asked point blank, not a single person here has cared to explain how "girl power"/wokeness has seriously or tangibly affected the franchise box office, or what, specifically, makes Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy the wrong woman for the job, outside of an innocuous quote. Instead, it's the same, tired bullsh*t and "lol"s from a handful of man babies who live to complain, virtue signal, and be offended on the internet.

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Regarding girl power, I will point out Rey's arc vs Luke's.

We first meet them on desert planets. They are essentially nobodies. Each acquires a lightsabre in their first episodes. By the end of Luke's first, he "could almost see the remote" and then was able to guide those proton torpedoes into an impossible shot down the ventilation shaft to destroy the Death Star.

By the end of Rey's first, she has pulled a Jedi mind trip on James Bond, and then engaged and defeated a trained Jedi/Sith/whatever Kylo Renn was the first time she wields a lightsabre in combat.

Looks like "girl power" to me. I liked her character just fine, but where was her struggle? In his second episode, Luke displays doubts about the Force "you work the impossible" but by the end of Rey's second, she has assisted Kylo Renn in taking out Snoke and somehow managed to Force project herself across the galaxy. Luke loses a hand to his dad snd barely escapes Cloud City alive.

Luke's immaturity and struggles pays off in the third episode. We have seen the challenges he has faced over the course of time in two movies, so we can believe that he is now ready and able to face his dad as an equal. Rey never got that type of development. She was just suddenly the bad ass Jedi that Luke only became by the end of his third episode.

As for this woman directing a new SW movie, the issue that I see is not that she is a woman. One of my favorites, Zero Dark Thirty, was directed by a woman. No, the issue is the statement you are calling innocuous. It is perfectly fine for her to be proud to be the first woman to direct a SW movie, but with that being her first statement, that calls into question her focus? She should be far more concerned with story and characters and not this unimportant checkbox that she is filling in.

I watched Ms. Marvel but could not tell you anything about it. So I am unfamiliar with anything she has done. She may very well make a great SW movie, but that win't happen if she does not focus on what will make it great.

I agree 100% with every one of your character/story critiques. But again, that's just bad writing. Plain and simple.

A girl being given powers she hasn't earned doesn't equal "girl power" in the way we're talking about. Clearly, the woke brand of "girl power" implies man-hating feminist propaganda, a stated aim to replace the patriarchy with women, etc, and there's just not a shred of any of that in the sequel trilogy.

Also, TFA was written by two men, one of whom literally wrote a significant chunk of the Luke arc you're referring to (not to mention the arcs of Han Solo and Indiana Jones). So what's more likely? Lawrence Kasdan became a raging feminist hell bent on "girl power" - or - 35 years later, under an impossible deadline, he simply didn't have his fastball anymore, and Rey's corner-cutting arc is what we ended up with?

As for Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, can you prove that she's NOT "concerned with story and characters?" All this gnashing of teeth over a two-line excerpt from a random interview that in no way implies she isn't working her ass off behind the scenes to also be making a great movie.

I'm not saying you, specifically, are doing this to the same degree as others, but overall it's just so f/cking weird to me how desperately some people need for there to be some grand woke agenda to rail against, making never-ending mountains out of mole hills in the process.

ChipFTAC01 said:

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Mary Sue?

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a female character that can do no wrong, has nothing to learn, is overpowered from the start.

You keep separating bad writing and girl power themes, as if they aren't tied together. They might not be hand in hand, but it sure looks like the goal was girl power and the writing was shoehorned around that.

The Last Jedi is probably the most guilty of this. Rey scolding Luke, Holdo vs Poe, Rose vs greed. The argument can easily be made that the goal was to preach, and the story was built around that. Rise suffers from trying to salvage the mess, and attempted to have Rey struggle with her emotions. It's not a stretch, imo, to say those bad decisions on TLJ affected both 8 and 9 (and possibly Solo's chances).

When compared to Rogue One, which I think also intended to push girl power, it wasn't the focal point and the story stands on its own.

It will be interesting to see the reaction to The Acolyte, which I suspect could be rather girl power heavy.

Nobody has posted the Cartman /Kathleen Kennedy gif yet?

I'm fine if they keep dropping bombs at the box office. Call it "girl power", or "bad writing" or whatever you want to call it.

I think the 'gnashing of the teeth' is we want a good story first. We've been burned by Disney's failure to tell a coherent and thought out story. So when interviewed and the first thing she says is it's going to be centered around a woman, I get that same feeling of here we go again with a messy story because it wasn't the primary focus.
I sincerely hope it was just poor emphasis on her part and that the driver is the story and not the gender of who will play the hero.

In contrast, Patty Jenkins Rogue Squadron announcement was spot on. Talked about the story and the direction it was going to take. She didn't start off by saying 'we're going to have female x-wing pilots'. At the time, it was a very exciting pitch (that is until WW84 came out).

Murder Hornet said:

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ChipFTAC01 said:

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Mary Sue?

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a female character that can do no wrong, has nothing to learn, is overpowered from the start.

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honestly the best example of this was the remake of Mulan….way worse than anything with Rey in Star Wars and that's saying something…..