Star Wars Discussion Thread

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Ulrich
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1. Jake Lloyd comes off like a tactless, unsophisticated, insecure, overconfident child… which is the role, right? He's playing a precocious nine-year-old and those are kind of obnoxious.

2. Jar Jar is a bad character, he crosses the line from comic relief to irritating joke at "I spek ", which is about his third line, and then he gets 700 more cringy chances. There's no getting around this.

3. The plot is actually doing something. They are telling a story of intrigue that is going to lead to the corruption of the galaxy. That winds up being kind of compelling when you're expecting it. Not as much if you go in expecting a straightforward "Good defeats evil using laser swords" story, but not necessarily bad.

4. Darth Maul isn't developed but he's cool as all hell

5. The 14-year-old queen concept doesn't make sense in an electoral system, but she's a stand-in for the people of Naboo. In that context she makes sense as a symbol of innocence. The virgin princess is a powerful symbol in mythology.

6. The movie has two key drivers of tension. One is a mystery plot, the other is is the suffering of innocents under a blockade. We never actually see a citizen, so it ends up feeling a bit contrived, more exposition than story. No one suffers on-screen aside from the Gungan soldiers, but all the tension and gravitas are drained from those scenes by the cartoonish CGI and slapstick absurdities of Jar-Jar.

7. I still think midichlorians were a mistake. It's the opposite of "luminous beings are we"; it turns out that the Force is fully explained by crude matter.

8. The idea of Jedi doing whatever it takes to pass through the corrupt world of the Hutts, gambling and tricking, using a small child, is dark. I'm used to thinking of the Jedi as good, but they really aren't in the prequel trilogy. Even knowing and accepting that, it's hard not to feel like Lucas was "getting it wrong" when you're watching, and I think that may have been a subtle but powerful contribution to the dislike of the PT.

9. It still doesn't really feel like much is at stake in the movie, we already know who is around in 32 years later and everything immediate is cartoonish. But this gets back to my thorough irritation at all 8 movies since ROTJ being either backstory or painfully self-conscious in the way they copied or refuted the OT.
Ulrich
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So TPM isn't my favorite movie or anything, it has lots of flaws, but I still enjoyed watching it last time. Maybe someday I'll get there with Clone Wars….
SoTxAg
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Love the dork/nerd arguments on star wars. Credit to what Lucas started,… i'll leave it at that.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Quote:

3. The plot is actually doing something. They are telling a story of intrigue that is going to lead to the corruption of the galaxy. That winds up being kind of compelling when you're expecting it. Not as much if you go in expecting a straightforward "Good defeats evil using laser swords" story, but not necessarily bad.
This explains exactly why I have always defended The Phantom Menace. Many of the rest of your points are good ones, but this drives right to the heart of the matter for me.

If I remember right, the tag line for TPM was "Every saga has a beginning". Which is exactly what The Phantom Menace did. It set up the galaxy that we all remembered from 1977 - 1983. Tyrannical governments don't typically pop up over night; they rise in the background over time. This is what Lucas depicted in both The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.

The Phantom Menace truly faced an impossible task, given 16 years of hordes of fans developing their own thoughts as to how the fourth Star Wars movie would go. The anticipation for that movie was beyond insane, and as such, it was bound to disappoint on some level. I also believe that the movie is a clear indication that Lucas made the absolute correct decision in the mid-70s to begin his story in the middle, rather than at the beginning. I have little doubt that there would not be a Star Wars culture had he given everyone The Phantom Menace (as it is) back in 1977.
The Porkchop Express
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You know 23 years later I still get chills in TPM the first time the Force theme plays when Qui-Gon is turning the blast door on the Trade Federation ship into melted butter with his lightsaber and Nute Gunray says "They are still coming through!" in disbelief.

That really captured what I always wanted to see - the power of a Jedi in his prime. Those guys in their dumb rubber masks really captured the "HOLY SHEET" vibe of facing a real Jedi.

On a side note, if only the movie had come out in 2022, the jig would have been up for Nute and Rune right away because they would have been immediately cancelled and had their Senate status revoked for those racist-ass accents.
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Al Bula
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I forgot what a boner killer this crawl was. Have honestly tried to bleach my mind from most of this fan fiction garbage.

I recall reading "the dead speak!" and being like "oh f*** this is going to be terrible."

Ulrich
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I give myself a pass on the "you're just upset because they didn't film your fanfic" bit. It's real, but I generally avoid doing too much theorizing.

To draw a finer point, I do expect movies to follow through on foreshadowing from prior movies in the series, that's part of long-form storytelling. For example: Han gives subtle hints in TFA that he knows who Rey is. Kylo's hints are not subtle, he's openly emotional when he finds out it's specifically a girl from Jakku. Rey has a connection to Luke's lightsaber and memories/visions of lightsaber battles in a galaxy where the Jedi were extinct 40 years ago. It's been foreshadowed that she was associated with the old crew in some way.

I never cared whose kid she was, she could have been anything from a random orphan to Leia's clone, but I felt that I had been promised an explanation for how all these people knew who she is. That mystery is one of the things that maintained tension for me and made Rey's search for her background and desire for belonging feel like it mattered.

So when Rian Johnson "subverted" that, I wasn't upset that he debunked my fan theory that she was the love child of Qui-Gon's Force ghost and the six-boobied dancer from Jabba's palace. There was obviously some of that in the fan base, but personally I think it's fair to fulfill promises in an unexpected way*. Rian Johnson chose not to fulfill the promise at all, and then if I remember right Star Wars: Acid Rave (aka TROS) made her a Somebody but never fulfilled the original promise, which is that we'll find out why Han smirks and Kylo freaks out when they guess who she is.

*i suspect that a lot of times when people get upset about trivia, it's because there's a deeper flaw but they don't know how to recognize or articulate it so they latch on to something superficial.
YouBet
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I finished Rebels. Great series.

I remember the talk about Ashoka's path/show is to go after Thrawn, but based on Rebels it's to find Ezra. Where did the former thought come into play? Is the at what she hinted in Mandalorian?
jeffk
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I think it's just a majority of SW fans really want to see Thrawn brought to life. And Ezra and Thrawn are likely in the same place, so it's easy to focus on one over the other.
YouBet
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jeffk said:

I think it's just a majority of SW fans really want to see Thrawn brought to life. And Ezra and Thrawn are likely in the same place, so it's easy to focus on one over the other.


Probably and maybe more fans read about Thrawn than have seen Rebels to the end and simply don't know Ezra exists in first place. Plus, we will get Sabine.

Her show makes Rebels required viewing.
jeffk
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I mean, I want more Zeb.
The Porkchop Express
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YouBet said:

I finished Rebels. Great series.

I remember the talk about Ashoka's path/show is to go after Thrawn, but based on Rebels it's to find Ezra. Where did the former thought come into play? Is the at what she hinted in Mandalorian?
I'm hopeful that when they do find Ezra/ Thrawn, they're working together, even begrudgingly so. or Ezra has sacrificed himself for something and Thrawn is now trying to finish the job against whatever enemy is out there.

The fact that Captain Pelleaon is also in it just makes me smile for days. Hoping the Noghri show up as well since Rukh was in Rebels near the end.

Would also love a flashback with Freddie Prinze Jr. as live-action Kanan.
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dave94
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helloimustbegoing said:


Would also love a flashback with Freddie Prinze Jr. as live-action Kanan.


Oh my god, I'd not even thought about that. Now I need this to happen. That would get a similar reaction to the Spider-Man reveals.
The Porkchop Express
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dave94 said:

helloimustbegoing said:


Would also love a flashback with Freddie Prinze Jr. as live-action Kanan.


Oh my god, I'd not even thought about that. Now I need this to happen. That would get a similar reaction to the Spider-Man reveals.
Seems like a natural. I hated that guy growing up after he stole my girlfriend (SMG), but loved him in Rebels.

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cbr
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Honestly the only rebels episode I even remember were the Ashoka ones. I didn't like any of the characters much and didn't really care for it much. I liked clones wars though. Not sure why such a difference for me.

Part may be that I started clone wars expecting to not like it, where as when I started rebels it was after the end of cw which was frankly awesome - I may have had higher expectations.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Cause of the lightsabers.

Joking aside, from a fan perspective as someone who's only seen the big "important" scenes on YouTube, it doesn't have that one original character that's transcended into pop culture in a way Ahsoka has.

My friends who've seen the whole thing tell me Ezra still kinda sucks, whereas Ahsoka grew into a fan favorite.
jeffk
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Clone Wars absolutely had higher highs than Rebels, but I think Rebels was the better series - more cohesive, less filler, tighter and more compelling storylines.
The Porkchop Express
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Cause of the lightsabers.

Joking aside, from a fan perspective as someone who's only seen the big "important" scenes on YouTube, it doesn't have that one original character that's transcended into pop culture in a way Ahsoka has.

My friends who've seen the whole thing tell me Ezra still kinda sucks, whereas Ahsoka grew into a fan favorite.
Respectfully speaking, your friends are stupid.
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GreasenUSA
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jeffk said:

Clone Wars absolutely had higher highs than Rebels, but I think Rebels was the better series - more cohesive, less filler, tighter and more compelling storylines.
Yep, Rebels was a tighter story overall. I agree that no characters have reached the love of Ahsoka, but several from Rebels are right behind her.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Brian Earl Spilner
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Fwiw bib, once I finish my PT / CW rewatch (Obi-Wan arcs) and we've finished Obi-Wan, I may continue on with Rebels if the Inquisitors really grab me.

Granted I doubt I'll watch the whole thing, but maybe just the big important arcs.
redline248
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helloimustbegoing said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Cause of the lightsabers.

Joking aside, from a fan perspective as someone who's only seen the big "important" scenes on YouTube, it doesn't have that one original character that's transcended into pop culture in a way Ahsoka has.

My friends who've seen the whole thing tell me Ezra still kinda sucks, whereas Ahsoka grew into a fan favorite.
Respectfully speaking, your friends are stupid.
I partially agree, Ezra never really pulled me in. I wouldn't say he sucks but he only went from annoying to less annoying for me. Kanan was the character I liked the most.

Edit: I have to remind myself that it was a show targeting kids, maybe more so than Clone Wars. I've felt for a while that writers struggle to relate characters to kids in the pre-teen/young teen group and often end up with characters that annoy adults.

Harry Potter in Order of the Phoenix comes to mind.
cbr
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Yeah ezra went from extremely annoying to very annoying. The jedi was kind of a worn out bag of old jediness. The pilot chick was kind of cool…but it really was more of a kids show, which of course is great. Just not for me.

For some reason, ashoka didnt seem as annoying early, and grew into a fabulous character at the end. Her arc made much more sense than the jumbled ambiguous moral mess they made of the jedis.

If i were a jedi, i'd ve gone my own way too. But the way they set up her chance to keep skywalker away from chopped kid-sui, and just missed it, in cw, was pretty cool.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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As a result of the Obi-Wan Kenobi trailer, I am binge watching Star Wars Rebels. I never finished The Clone Wars (still on my to-do list eventually), so I never bothered with Rebels. But I am finding that I am really enjoying most of this. Cannot wait to see some of these characters in OWK.
The Porkchop Express
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Fwiw bib, once I finish my PT / CW rewatch (Obi-Wan arcs) and we've finished Obi-Wan, I may continue on with Rebels if the Inquisitors really grab me.

Granted I doubt I'll watch the whole thing, but maybe just the big important arcs.
Who is bib?

My name is Roger Murdock. I'm the co-pilot.
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YouBet
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Maybe it's overlooked but I thought Kanan's growth as a Jedi was more impactful than Ezra's. Remember that he never had his training finished so he went from adult Padawan to essentially Master Jedi over the course of the series. I'm also going to say that Chopper should be in the discussion as a better astromech character than R2.

What was really highlighted in this show though was the utter hopelessness everyone must feel when they have to actually fire a laser gun. The guns in Star Wars must be the most inaccurate weapons of any weapon in any property ever created.

Imagine being a Stormtrooper and the feeling of dismay having to go into battle knowing that you can literally stand 3 feet from someone and know to almost 100% certainty that you will miss them and miss them wildly. It was so awful that there was even an exchange in one episode that the writers worked in making fun of it.
jeffk
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Ezra's stun gun never misses though.
The Porkchop Express
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Kanan has some of the best moments of any SW character ever.

His first reveal as a Jedi in the series premiere.
Overcoming his fears of failure to defeat the Grand Inquisitor.
Being ambivalent about joining the Alliance because of what happened to the Jedi
His guilt over his Master's sacrifice
Showing Sabine how to fight with the Dark Saber
His sacrifice

Filoni gut punched me in the feels when Jacen Syndulla showed up flying the Ghost in the epilogue.
Brian Earl Spilner
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That's your brother!

TCTTS
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Posting this mainly because this article reads like it was written by a droid, but also because, if true, "Stranger Things, but in a galaxy far, far away" actually sounds kind of cool. That is, as long they don't cast super-annoying tweens and none of them ride Vespas…

Brian Earl Spilner
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Focusing on kids makes me nervous, but I could see that working well if done right. If it can somehow get that Stranger Things tone where it's made for adults as well then I'm in.
YouBet
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Instead of being a show focused on adult fans that children can also enjoy, this could be a much needed live-action show that's made specifically for kids.


I'm out of this is how they roll.
jeffk
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So they're going to make a live-action show about all the filler episode characters from Clone Wars?
Ag Since 83
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Rebels is more about the ensemble so it's understandable there aren't standout characters.

It might also have the best Obi-wan scene so far
wangus12
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helloimustbegoing said:

dave94 said:

helloimustbegoing said:


Would also love a flashback with Freddie Prinze Jr. as live-action Kanan.


Oh my god, I'd not even thought about that. Now I need this to happen. That would get a similar reaction to the Spider-Man reveals.
Seems like a natural. I hated that guy growing up after he stole my girlfriend (SMG), but loved him in Rebels.


Glad I'm not the only one who hated FPJ for that reason
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