Star Wars Discussion Thread

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DTP02
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AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:

I had said this when they fired D&D (before reading that Q&A where they made clear how they were winging it all throughout GoT), and then realized it was probably a smart decision on her part.

But after this, I'm done with her. She needs to go. This has happened with EVERY major project they've done, save for TLJ basically.

Somebody needs to captain this ship it's clearly not her. Time for a change.



Kennedy: we are going to have to get rid of D&D, they are nice guys but we just can't entrust such a treasured property to people with no overarching plan or vision. You can't just make these things up as you go.

Also Kennedy: (TFA> TLJ > TROS)
jackie childs
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TCTTS said:

I genuinely do not understand this "not happy with the script(s)" thing that is a constant issue at Lucasfilm. Why are script issues seemingly ALWAYS a last-minute surprise? Hey, Kathleen, YOU'RE IN CHARGE. How about, you know, do your job and oversee the creative process EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. As a producer who doesn't have final say so at times, has studio partners who are above my head, etc, I understand getting scripts back that aren't what you had hoped for. It's happened to me multiple times. But as the overseer of this entire process, Kennedy doesn't have to play nice with anyone or cede to someone else's vision/notes. She can say and do whatever she wants. She can have the writers pitch every movie and episode for her beat by beat before they type a single word of the actual scripts themselves. That way, the "surprises" are nipped in the bud before everything is announced, pre-production is in full swing, etc. I really, truly, do not understand how this KEEPS happening. Granted, I'm sure it's more complicated than any of us know, but still. No studio should have this much drama on nearly every project it develops. It's insane.
schmidthead
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Is it theoretically possible that it's been delayed because Kennedy is being let go and someone else is coming in and reviewing everything?

PS: I saw the rumors a week or two ago and glad it finally hit this board, my main source for entertainment news. I'm still wondering why no one posted that teaser with Michael B Jordan as John Clark yet.
titan
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S
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

TCTTS said:

I think the Alien 3 stuff was worse, and a little different, but yeah, it's in the same vein. I think the main difference is that, despite the negative critical and fan reactions, the SW films that *do* get made make money (for the most part), and The Mandalorian was massively popular. So there's a level of "success" that Alien 3 never achieved.
Summer of 1991, I went to see Terminator 2 Judgment Day, and this teaser trailer played:



The making of that movie must have been a grade A clusterf... Given that the teaser had virtually nothing to do with the movie that came out in the summer of 1992. Alien 3 was a steaming pile. And I say that as someone who ranks Alien as the greatest (by far) monster movie ever made, and it is in my top 5 all-time.
Yes, I remember that vividly, and thought "Holy crap!" `Its pretty obvious you are going to be needing to see `nuke it from orbit' with a new application. And probably a few times.'

What is so bizarre is the script went through at least three different phases of development. Even the one involving Earth was actually going to be a station in orbit (Gateway maybe?) near --- it had an Outland vibe but would have Cold War elements. The fall of the Soviet Union led to jettisoning that.

Then other version had it some kind of throwback colony (this made it to Alien III final version but changed to monks in a prison)

By the way, for those interested, the Gibson Alien III earlier script has been made into a five part comic:

https://www.amazon.com/William-Gibsons-Alien-3-1-ebook/dp/B07H48FP2X/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=alien+3&qid=1579885853&s=books&sr=1-2
MuckRaker96
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AG
Urban Ag said:

My left pec is covered in a Spartan battle helmet with the American flag over it. I keep teasing my wife I'm going to do the other side with a Mando helmet. Lots of eye rolling. I think they'd balance each other out.
I was fortunate enough to get my Dark Tower tattoo 3 years before I met my wife. The guy guessed it would take 3 or 4 hours to finish. It took 7-1/2. Mando helmet would be awesome.

I have this art of Roland with the gun and the rose on my right arm. Have the Oiler derrick on my left arm from when they moved, that was my first one. Then my daughters' names and birthdate on my left arm in 2012. Definitely need a tattoo thred to get going around here.

I Have Spoken
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Thanks for that link. I'd known about the Gibson script but never knew it had actually been published in any form other than a web link to the screenplay on the net.
titan
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

Thanks for that link. I'd known about the Gibson script but never knew it had actually been published in any form other than a web link to the screenplay on the net.
Your welcome. The Alien anniversary last year actually has spawned other items like that if you didn't know- got both of these -- very nice:

https://www.amazon.com/Making-Alien-J-W-Rinzler/dp/1789090555/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=alien&qid=1579904369&s=books&sr=1-2

https://www.amazon.com/Alien-Blueprints-Graham-Langridge/dp/1785654950/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/138-2477650-4146155?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1785654950&pd_rd_r=5b30dfe0-4a89-42d8-81f5-3d5162f7a8c8&pd_rd_w=TnsBY&pd_rd_wg=sFANf&pf_rd_p=fd08095f-55ff-4a15-9b49-4a1a719225a9&pf_rd_r=RYRNV3JMQH1QQYS83SB0&psc=1&refRID=RYRNV3JMQH1QQYS83SB0
Agsrback12
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TLJ hangover is alive and well. There are a lot of fans that won't forgive it. They need to reboot it and just let the cards fall where they may. Have Hamil carry it home and all will be well.
wangus12
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AG
Don't be ridiculous. There is no chance in hell they redo an entire trilogy of films because half the fan base didn't like it. They spent nearly a billion dollars on them and made 4.5 billion. In Disney's eyes, the sequel trilogy was a success.
titan
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S

TLJ is easier to endure now -- especially with the image of how Luke handled the sabre moment in TROS. Just communicated so much and helped purge some things.

But having re-watched it to get a feel of that feeling and how TROS takes some of the bad taste away (despite its own real severe flaws) nearly as bad as the treatment of Luke's fight not being "real" at the end is how Snoke was handled. The guy was really starting to be an impressive character--- downright intimidating in his malevolence in the throne scene and a bit more "get to the point" manner that seemed different from Palpatine. TLJ throughout the whole movie just makes mockery of one character after another--villain and hero alike.
AliasMan02
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titan said:


TLJ is easier to endure now -- especially with the image of how Luke handled the sabre moment in TROS. Just communicated so much and helped purge some things.

But having re-watched it to get a feel of that feeling and how TROS takes some of the bad taste away (despite its own real severe flaws) nearly as bad as the treatment of Luke's fight not being "real" at the end is how Snoke was handled. The guy was really starting to be an impressive character--- downright intimidating in his malevolence in the throne scene and a bit more "get to the point" manner that seemed different from Palpatine. TLJ throughout the whole movie just makes mockery of one character after another--villain and hero alike.


I still, years later, can't comprehend the notion that the correct way to handle Luke was to have him come in and wipe out the FO assault force on Crait, Force Unleashed style. It would have been so thematically and narratively flawed in every way that I honestly wonder if I'm missing something.

Luke's victory over Kylo Ren in TLJ was so complete, and that act so perfectly built off of the Rey/Ben storyline, that I don't know how I could top it. Even if you don't agree with every choice or like every other thread in the movie (which I don't), I don't see how fans can see the building to that moment as anything but masterful by RJ. Star Wars has never had anything like that "ah ha" moment where all the little clues interspersed through the film came together in such a way.
JCRiley09
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Disappointed that JJ didn't do anything with the "see you around kid" line. No force ghost haunting Kylo. I'm sure it will be in a novel or comic, but for movies only folks, that would have been great to see on screen.
YouBet
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Rebooting the last trilogy with Hamill is nonsensical if solely because of his age. He will be 70 next year. If they started now and filmed all 3 at the same time then maybe.
titan
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S

Quote:

I still, years later, can't comprehend the notion that the correct way to handle Luke was to have him come in and wipe out the FO assault force on Crait, Force Unleashed style. It would have been so thematically and narratively flawed in every way that I honestly wonder if I'm missing something.

Luke's victory over Kylo Ren in TLJ was so complete, and that act so perfectly built off of the Rey/Ben storyline, that I don't know how I could top it. Even if you don't agree with every choice or like every other thread in the movie (which I don't), I don't see how fans can see the building to that moment as anything but masterful by RJ. Star Wars has never had anything like that "ah ha" moment where all the little clues interspersed through the film came together in such a way.
It seemed like such a cheat at the time. But you make an excellent argument and interpretation for it. Much easier to "rescue" that scene in mind than some other parts of the movie. Good take.
MuckRaker96
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If you wanted super powered luke at Craig, would you have wanted yoda flying the millennium falcon into the death star in Rotj while using the force to cut all the star destroyers in half? I wish I could have had more luke but the way he bamboozled kylo into letting the resistance escape gets more epic the more I watch it. Every weapon fired on him, the supreme commander engaged him in single combat, and the guy wasn't even on the same planet! Imagine that story working it's way through the first order ranks
bangobango
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AliasMan02 said:

titan said:


TLJ is easier to endure now -- especially with the image of how Luke handled the sabre moment in TROS. Just communicated so much and helped purge some things.

But having re-watched it to get a feel of that feeling and how TROS takes some of the bad taste away (despite its own real severe flaws) nearly as bad as the treatment of Luke's fight not being "real" at the end is how Snoke was handled. The guy was really starting to be an impressive character--- downright intimidating in his malevolence in the throne scene and a bit more "get to the point" manner that seemed different from Palpatine. TLJ throughout the whole movie just makes mockery of one character after another--villain and hero alike.


I still, years later, can't comprehend the notion that the correct way to handle Luke was to have him come in and wipe out the FO assault force on Crait, Force Unleashed style. It would have been so thematically and narratively flawed in every way that I honestly wonder if I'm missing something.

Luke's victory over Kylo Ren in TLJ was so complete, and that act so perfectly built off of the Rey/Ben storyline, that I don't know how I could top it. Even if you don't agree with every choice or like every other thread in the movie (which I don't), I don't see how fans can see the building to that moment as anything but masterful by RJ. Star Wars has never had anything like that "ah ha" moment where all the little clues interspersed through the film came together in such a way.


You are in a very small minority. That scenes is almost universally hated at this point.
bangobango
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Glad to see some of the Kennedy boot lickers from post-TLJ are coming around to what many of us knew and said two years ago.

We will just forget all the names and insults hurled when it was suggested back then that Kennedy needed to be fired and move forward as a United front in our desire to have somebody who actually doesn't suck pilot this franchise moving forward.
TCTTS
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"Almost universally hated" according to who? Would love to see your stats on that one. I've found that the more time passes, the more I - and seemingly others on this board, at least - have come around on the Luke plot in TLJ (once again, it's the Finn/Rose and Poe/Holdo stuff I and others here seem to really hate). Are there people who still hate the Luke stuff? Of Course. But no where even in the same vicinity as "almost universally."
PatAg
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TCTTS said:

"Almost universally hated" according to who? Would love to see your stats on that one. I've found that the more time passes, the more I - and seemingly others on this board, at least - have come around on the Luke plot in TLJ (once again, it's the Finn/Rose and Poe/Holdo stuff I and others here seem to really hate). Are there people who still hate the Luke stuff? Of Course. But no where even in the same vicinity as "almost universally."
As someone who dislikes how Luke's story was handled in TLJ, I was under the impression that most people thought that scene was pretty awesome. The only thing I've seen people get mad about is him then dying afterwards. But the whole confrontation and finding out he was doing something we had never even though of being possible...pretty awesome.
TCTTS
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I do agree that Luke's death should have been saved for IX. It would have been a great cliffhanger to have him drained and collapse at the end VIII - to the point where he might be dying, though we aren't 100% sure - but then perhaps we discover that it changed him somehow for IX. Such a feat needed to have a lasting effect, but VIII it was just too early for his actual death. He needed to go out like halfway through IX and then return in the climax as a Force ghost.
MuckRaker96
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The only thing universal on this board is that if you guys saw Kathleen Kennedy on fire you'd run to the garage to pour on more gasoline.

Luke vs kylo is a top 10 all star wars movies moment for me
TCTTS
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I don't hate Kathleen Kennedy. In fact, I've defended her numerous times on this board. But at this point it's impossible to ignore that literally every single Star Wars project under her watch - save for TLJ - has been mired in highly irregular and sometimes near-crippling creative/production drama (and even TLJ was pushed back from May to December '17). She was a legendary producer. She's not a good production president. Anyone defending her at this point sounds like a Sumlin defender during his last year at A&M. I'm sorry, but "good enough" isn't good enough for me and many others here.
Ulrich
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I still think the way Luke was handled in TLJ is the worst thing in the ST. I could probably write a thousand words on why it's a betrayal of the character and the viewer... I probably have already. And since the standard rebuttal is always some schlock about how it must not have matched my preconceived fanfic: I did not need or particularly expect some big hero moment.
Ulrich
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MuckRaker96 said:

The only thing universal on this board is that if you guys saw Kathleen Kennedy on fire you'd run to the garage to pour on more gasoline.

Luke vs kylo is a top 10 all star wars movies moment for me

After TLJ I probably hated Kennedy because I thought she was intentionally trying to turn star wars into something it's not, but now I think she's simply in over her head. Stuff just happens while she tries to hang on as best she can. Ironically, as evidence keeps piling up I'm getting more sympathetic. She still needs to be gently moved on, but that isn't something to be mad at her about.
Ag Since 83
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TCTTS said:

I don't hate Kathleen Kennedy. In fact, I've defended her numerous times on this board. But at this point it's impossible to ignore that literally every single Star Wars project under her watch - save for TLJ - has been mired in highly irregular and sometimes near-crippling creative/production drama (and even TLJ was pushed back from May to December '17). She was a legendary producer. She's not a good production president. Anyone defending her at this point sounds like a Sumlin defender during his last year at A&M. I'm sorry, but "good enough" isn't good enough for me and many others here.
Just OK is not OK
Dekker_Lentz
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I may be in the minority, but the sequel trilogy failed because they really failed to plan out Ben/Kylo Ren's story.

Starting him on the dark side required a much more compelling backstory than we got. Since frame 1 of the Force Awakens, we never really got a compelling story on how Leia, Han, Chewie, and Luke let him fall to the Dark Side.

The only explanation we got was Snoke in Force Awakens, who TLJ made into a joke.

Then TLJ made the answer that Ben final fall was because Luke tried to kill him, but we really aren't given a compelling reason why Luke came to conclusion. The implication is Snoke again, who the movie made into a joke.

Then we get to climax of Luke and Ben meeting again and while I can appreciate why they did what they did in TLJ, but to me Ben's fall to the dark side is because Han, Luke, and Leia were never there for him.

Then at the end, Luke wasn't even there for Ben. It just missed for me thematically.

To me the Force Projection Luke is actually too clever. You can have the exact same scene with Luke physically being there and drawing a much stronger the parallel to Obi Wan and Darth Vader scene in A New Hope.

Then you have Ben's abandonment issues being addressed in the movies with Han showing up for Ben in TFA, Luke in TLJ, and then Leia in RoS.

If Disney is interested in fixing the sequel trilogy, they need to make a movie or series showing Ben's fall and try to smooth out the connectivity issues between TFA/TLJ/RoS.

Kinda of like how Clone Wars/Rebels smoothed out the prequels by giving Anakin more depth.
Ulrich
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I don't want them to try to fix anything. Just move on and make new stuff. We've had enough backstory exposition, just make good new movies and tv shows in the universe with little or no connection to existing stories.

Since TPM, there have been 8 movies and 5 of them are explaining things that we already knew how it turned out. The other 3 pivoted the OT from bringing balance to the Force and peace to the galaxy to buying 30 years of time.
MuckRaker96
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AG
TCTTS said:

I don't hate Kathleen Kennedy. In fact, I've defended her numerous times on this board. But at this point it's impossible to ignore that literally every single Star Wars project under her watch - save for TLJ - has been mired in highly irregular and sometimes near-crippling creative/production drama (and even TLJ was pushed back from May to December '17). She was a legendary producer. She's not a good production president. Anyone defending her at this point sounds like a Sumlin defender during his last year at A&M. I'm sorry, but "good enough" isn't good enough for me and many others here.
I don't think anyone actually hates her, well given TexAgs, probably some do. I just know that everyone has a boss, and just because she's coming off as Darth Vader bungling the search for the Rebel Base and losing track of Skywalker at Hoth and again at Cloud City doens't mean there's not an evil Emperor behind her pulling the strings who is really to blame.
TCTTS
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If there ever was an "evil Emperor" pulling the strings, as I've said before, it was Bob Iger when he insisted on the 2015 TFA release date - and wouldn't budge - instead giving Lucasfilm more time to develop the trilogy. That was the original sin.
PatAg
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Ag Since 83 said:

TCTTS said:

I don't hate Kathleen Kennedy. In fact, I've defended her numerous times on this board. But at this point it's impossible to ignore that literally every single Star Wars project under her watch - save for TLJ - has been mired in highly irregular and sometimes near-crippling creative/production drama (and even TLJ was pushed back from May to December '17). She was a legendary producer. She's not a good production president. Anyone defending her at this point sounds like a Sumlin defender during his last year at A&M. I'm sorry, but "good enough" isn't good enough for me and many others here.
Just OK is not OK
She's one of the production presidents in Hollywood
TCTTS
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AG
Took me a minute, but I finally got this. Bravo.
Rick Dalton
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Brian Earl Spilner
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Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Not SW related, but this is even funnier than the Kylo Ren skit.

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