Star Wars Discussion Thread

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jr15aggie
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CJS4715 said:

jr15aggie said:

They Fubar'd Luke's story and many fans instantly stopped caring. He was our hero and they decided an artistic curve ball was needed!?!



I still can make the logical jump of how Luke got to where he is. It sucks, but I get it. Out of the original characters, they handled Han the best. Hope JJ can pull something off in IX, otherwise sacrificing Han was completely pointless.

Agreed. Nobody can argue opinions and some people were fine with the Luke arc. Some applauded it. But Disney saw the numbers fall off extremely fast as soon as they gave the audience a fallen hero. I think it killed the magic for a lot of 40+ year old former kids.

Going into VII it felt so simple for Disney. Tell whatever story you want with 2 rules... don't screw up Han and don't screw up Luke. Get creative with the other returning characters if you want but don't mess up Han or Luke. They got 1 out 2.


CJS4715
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amercer said:

With JJ in charge I expect Luke back in the flesh, laws of the universe be damned.


Alternate reality Luke shows up to destroy the First Order's ***** ass.
amercer
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This could all be fixed with a standalone Luke Skywalker movie. Make him a 30 year old super Jedi, roaming the galaxy collecting Jedi/sith relics and ****ing up bad guys. Hamill is still around and the CGI these days is clearly good enough.

This would make everyone happy and make a billion dollars...
jr15aggie
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CJS4715 said:

amercer said:

With JJ in charge I expect Luke back in the flesh, laws of the universe be damned.


Alternate reality Luke shows up to destroy the First Order's ***** ass.
Haha... yeah, I said the same thing a while back. Just make up some BS new force power and bring Luke back. I don't even care if it's LOL corny... I'll be in the theater one second saying "Well that's a dumb explanation" and then next "Oh hell yeah, Luke's back... and there's the green light saber, let's go!!!"
jabberwalkie09
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amercer said:

With JJ in charge I expect Luke back in the flesh, laws of the universe be damned.

Well Rian had Yoda conjure lightning to set the tree on fire in TLJ. So at this point, what's really holding him back in that regard to make him force ghost-ish?
Flashdiaz
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just inception it and say Luke was in a projection within a projection. The only thing that would need some 'splaining is his physical robe flying off in the wind. Just say that was done for show for the alien nuns on the island in case anyone came asking.

Then have Luke in the xwing with the cockpit open and his lightsaber out using the force to smash Dreadnoughts and Gorilla Walkers together.
redline248
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Johnson didn't just have Yoda conjure lightning, he had him hit Luke on the head with a ghostly walking stick. In a sense, Johnson completely broke all the rules about the Force.
TCTTS
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I dislike TLJ as much as the next guy, but complaining about Yoda conjuring lightning doesn't make much sense to me. If a live Sith can make lightning shoot out of his fingers, it's not that much of a stretch to believe a Force Ghost Yoda can conjure it from the sky. In fact, I bet we see quite a bit of Force Ghost Luke interacting with the real world in IX.
CJS4715
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redline248 said:

Johnson didn't just have Yoda conjure lightning, he had him hit Luke on the head with a ghostly walking stick. In a sense, Johnson completely broke all the rules about the Force.


When were the boundaries set? Each SW movie has expanded the force.

It is amazing how the things I accepted as a kid are "just the way things are". My son watched the original Star Wars a few months back (he's seen it multiple times) and asked why Vader doesn't use the force to keep the blast door from closing. Now, my immediate response was that the Empire was letting them get away... but, Vader is walking toward the door and just lets it close? Hmmm.

Edit: meant to say "keep blast door from closing"
jabberwalkie09
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TCTTS said:

I dislike TLJ as much as the next guy, but complaining about Yoda conjuring lightning doesn't make much sense to me. If a live Sith can make lightning shoot out of his fingers, it's not that much of a stretch to believe a Force Ghost Yoda can conjure it from the sky. In fact, I bet we see quite a bit of Force Ghost Luke interacting with the real world in IX.

There's a significant difference there. One is a dead guy on a different plane of existence, and the other is a living guy on the same plane of existence.

Quigon didn't completely become a force ghost and couldn't do much other be a disembodied voice. Kenobi didn't physically interact either. So Yoda having this ability out of the blue should draw some question in how someone who isn't on the same lane of existence can conjure a storm and lightning.

The only other creature we have seen that could actually effectively do what Yoda did was the Bendu in Rebels, and that creature was alive at the time IIRC.
TCTTS
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jabberwalkie09
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That's not even remotely in the same conversation as powers usage, and you know that.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I wonder if Luke and Obi-Wan didn't choose to become "one with the Force", unlike Yoda, who died of natural causes.
TCTTS
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Ha, relax. It's a movie. I just can't believe people are arguing over supernatural ghost "rules" when A) this franchise has had so many different authors, and B) it's beyond clear that they've basically been making sh*t up as they go. I remember thinking it was ridiculous that Qui-Gon could jump like 50 feet in the air in TPM. But you know why Lucas likely gave him that ability? Not because it was written in some preordained bible of Jedi powers, but because the set designer came up with a cool, multi-level, multi-bridge set, and Lucas was probably like, "I need a way for Qui-Gon to quickly get up to that next level. Screw it, Jedi can jump super high now too." I just can't imagine - in a movie where Luke transports his likeness/consciousness to a completely different part of the galaxy, and everyone's ok with that - then getting upset that Yoda couldn't have learned a trick or two in Jedi heaven in the last 25 years or so as well.
jabberwalkie09
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I believe it was established in TCW that to become a force Ghost, you have to go through some training. Quigon related that to Yoda, who then in turn relayed that to Kenobi at the end of ROTS iirc.
Fenrir
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I'm back and forth on the issue. On one hand, I can't come up with a great reason why an individual who has become one with the force cannot utilize the force to interact with the physical realm.

On the other, that basically makes them omnipotent, all powerful and invincible and so why couldn't they just destroy whatever enemy that shows up? Kind of ruins story telling potential.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Quote:

"I need a way for Qui-Gon to quickly get up to that next level. Screw it, Jedi can jump super high now too."
Well, this was established in ESB when Luke force jumps out of the carbonite chamber.

But, fair point.
TCTTS
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jabberwalkie09
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Quote:

"I need a way for Qui-Gon to quickly get up to that next level. Screw it, Jedi can jump super high now too."
Well, this was established in ESB when Luke force jumps out of the carbonite chamber.

But, fair point.

Which is the reverse of what Vader demonstrates earlier in ESB with a force pull.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Which by the way, is probably the ultimate example of two badass moments in quick succession.

Han shooting Vader on sight, Vader stopping the blasts and force grabbing the blaster.
Brian Earl Spilner
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It also makes me appreciate the fact that they had a cool scene which introduced this power for the first time (Luke pulling the saber out of the snow on Hoth), before showing us Vader doing the same.

Kind of makes it feel like they could've teased this particular power (ghosts interacting with the real world) before Yoda uses it.

Then again, it could have been teasing Luke's future abilities in IX.
ccaggie05
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Is there any word on other Star Wars movies after episode IX? I remember seeing news that anthology films are on hold after lackluster results from Solo and I haven't really kept up with SW news since.
CJS4715
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TCTTS said:




Well, force ghosts are also walking on the ground, so that interaction seems the be the same as sitting on a log. To manipulate a physical object (cause lightning or hit someone with a stick) is obviously on a whole different level. My thought was always that the projection was in the other's mind... of course, this was ruined when Lucas made Hayden the force ghost on Endor.

I then felt affirmed in my old belief when Luke projected a younger version of himself at the end of TLJ... but then he uses the ****ing blue saber that Ben would have never seen him use. Could be plausible for Ben to imagine that though as he had seen Rey use it. IDK... so many possibilities and wasted thoughts on something trivial.
Brian Earl Spilner
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This is the latest.

***** Upcoming Movies / Series *****

The Mandalorian - Fall 2019 (Disney+)

Star Wars: The Clone Wars - 2019 (Disney+)

Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Cassian Andor series - TBA (Disney+)

Rian Johnson film series - TBA

Beinoff & Weiss film series - TBA

Obi-Wan movie - On hold

Lando movie - On hold (Rumored)


Expect a lot of news in the way of the Benioff & Weiss movies at Celebration next month.
jabberwalkie09
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

It also makes me appreciate the fact that they had a cool scene which introduced this power for the first time (Luke pulling the saber out of the snow on Hoth), before showing us Vader doing the same.

Kind of makes it feel like they could've teased this particular power (ghosts interacting with the real world) before Yoda uses it.

Then again, it could have been teasing Luke's future abilities in IX.

Which brings up the issue that Fenrir pointed out a little further up:
Quote:

On the other, that basically makes them omnipotent, all powerful and invincible and so why couldn't they just destroy whatever enemy that shows up? Kind of ruins story telling potential.

Allowing this as a future ability would also pose the question for why Kenobi and Yoda didn't intervene during ESB, ROTJ, or TFA. I think that it allows for more issues in the story and universe continuity wise.

But that's just my opinion.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I think that could easily be explained as something that was only recently learned/discovered by Yoda.
CJS4715
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

This is the latest.

***** Upcoming Movies / Series *****

The Mandalorian - Fall 2019 (Disney+)

Star Wars: The Clone Wars - 2019 (Disney+)

Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019


The pause has been long, but this fall / winter will be long remembered.
Brian Earl Spilner
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The blue saber bugs me too. To me, if feels like Rian Johnson was just going with the lightsaber that he felt more of an emotional attachment to, than the green one that would've logically been the correct lightsaber.
DartAg1970
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I agree, of all the screw up in TLJ, the single biggest for me was Luke not using his green saber. No excuse for it.
"Equality, rightly understood as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and the emancipation of creative differences; wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, leads first to conformity and then to despotism."
TCTTS
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ccaggie05 said:

Is there any word on other Star Wars movies after episode IX? I remember seeing news that anthology films are on hold after lackluster results from Solo and I haven't really kept up with SW news since.

Here's the basic gist...

- It's sounding like the trilogy from Benioff & Weiss (the Game of Thrones writers/showrunners) will be the first out of the gate. My guess is a Christmas 2021 release. We have absolutely no word, however, on the plot/characters/time period. Literally no clue.

- Rian Johnson's trilogy will likely come next, possibly debuting Christmas 2022? Perhaps the B&W trilogy will rotate years with the Johnson trilogy? That's pure speculation, though. All we know of the plot of this trilogy is that it will most likely take place after Episode IX, but in a completely different part of the galaxy, with all new characters, a new storyline, etc.

- The anthology films have basically been scrapped as theatrical projects. That said, it's sounding like all of the anthology/ancillary concepts, from here on out, will now be "converted" to / released as limited series on Disney+ (Disney's new streaming service) beginning this fall with The Mandalorian. Disney+ is where we'll likely see any sequel adventures to Solo, in the form as limited series as well, along with what was once the Obi-Wan movie (but will now be a series), etc. Basically, by 2021 or so, it sounds like we'll be to the point where Disney is releasing multiple limited SW series on the platform per year, all of which will essentially take the place of the "anthology" movies.
jabberwalkie09
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

I think that could easily be explained as something that was only recently learned/discovered by Yoda.

Still would be an issue for the ST, especially given that TLJ occurs directly after TFA. And I can stomach some hand waving, but I don't think we should do that to excuse poor writing/continuity. Like I said, it would introduce more questions and issues than it would resolve.
Ag Since 83
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I'm trying to decide if I'd be excited if they announced Rian Johnson's trilogy involves the Chiss.

He'd probably decide their red eyes are because they're all wearing contact lenses or something.
CJS4715
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Ag Since 83 said:

I'm trying to decide if I'd be excited if they announced Rian Johnson's trilogy involves the Chiss.



MuckRaker96
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I think we can agree that Yoda was more powerful than QGJ or OWK - so he dies, becomes one with the Force, and 30+ years later he can knock Luke around and conjure up lightning. I don't have a problem with him being able to manipulate the real world more than the other 2 could. I didn't see the other two lifting spaceships out of swamps anytime either.

As for Luke returning in IX, there is some precedent. IN the original screen play of ROTJ, Obi-Wan returns from the "nether plane" to full flesh to help Luke fight Palps and Ani in a 2-on-2 thrown down. In another version, he appears as half ghost / half real and blocks Palps' Force Lightning.

If you ever spy the original star wars trilogy annotated screenplay at a bookstore grab it. There is so much cool stuff in there - bitter Obi-Wan, Luke putting on Vader's mask after killing him on DSII, Han Solo calling out Vader, etc
Brian Earl Spilner
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Quote:

Han Solo calling out Vader
In what way?
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