Star Wars Discussion Thread

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AliasMan02
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CJS4715 said:

On the TV series front, they were tossing around rumors about a show for ABC as far back as last August if I remember right (. The concern seems to be producing it at an acceptable SW universe level with a TV budget. I know there was a story idea put together with Coruscant as the setting.


They'd be better of doing their version of Firefly out in the Outer Rim to limit the CG. And doing it Sherlock style rather than a series.
jabberwalkie09
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CJS4715 said:

It is a crazy theory, and I agree, I'd want him to be fleshed out in the movie. If you want more, hey, there is this cartoon, but if you are an adult without kids - the movie should suffice in giving you enough background. If it were Ezra, one could easily make the argument that he is the other hope referenced by Yoda, which would be a mind **** of the highest degree for me. 30 years of assumptions just wiped away.
Frankly, the issue with Saw was the lack of fleshing out how he connected with Galen Erso. Well that and the crazy, off the wall stuff in R1 with Saw. None of the background, of which he appeared in a grand total of 4 episodes from TCW, was important to the movie. The explanation that he was someone who was part of the Rebellion that eventually grew disillusioned with the lack of action and struck out on his own, eventually being effectively disowned by the larger rebellion because they disapproved of his move violent, indiscriminate actions. Which is fine for why he left the rebellion, but not how he connected back to the Erso family.

And that's a separate matter from him originating from TCW. So I don't think that the complaint that he originated from TCW and you would have to watch a cartoon holds much weight.

I don't see them over turning the "there is another" being assumed as Leia.
Flashdiaz
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jabberwalkie09 said:

CJS4715 said:

It is a crazy theory, and I agree, I'd want him to be fleshed out in the movie. If you want more, hey, there is this cartoon, but if you are an adult without kids - the movie should suffice in giving you enough background. If it were Ezra, one could easily make the argument that he is the other hope referenced by Yoda, which would be a mind **** of the highest degree for me. 30 years of assumptions just wiped away.
Frankly, the issue with Saw was the lack of fleshing out how he connected with Galen Erso. Well that and the crazy, off the wall stuff in R1 with Saw. None of the background, of which he appeared in a grand total of 4 episodes from TCW, was important to the movie. The explanation that he was someone who was part of the Rebellion that eventually grew disillusioned with the lack of action and struck out on his own, eventually being effectively disowned by the larger rebellion because they disapproved of his move violent, indiscriminate actions. Which is fine for why he left the rebellion, but not how he connected back to the Erso family.

And that's a separate matter from him originating from TCW.

I don't see them over turning the "there is another" being assumed as Leia.
was actually thinking about the 'there is another ' line... since Leia is no longer with us, Luke now truly is the Last Jedi.
CJS4715
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jabberwalkie09 said:

I don't see them over turning the "there is another" being assumed as Leia.


I guess what has always bothered me about the line is that he seems to be stating it in a manner that makes it seem like Kenobi doesn't know or has forgotten. Right now, we could at least assume Kenobi doesn't know about Ezra.. of course, that may get blown up here in a few weeks too.
AliasMan02
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But we know that at the time Yoda said it in Empire, it did not mean Leia, which makes it at least somewhat interesting in the context of the Ezra conversation (which I agree has no merit).

Refresher for those who don't recall: as of Empire, Luke and Leia were not siblings. That was invented for Jedi to resolve the love triangle. Luke was to have a sister who is still out in hiding in the far reaches of space. She would appear in the next trilogy that never came to be after Jedi was replanned.
jabberwalkie09
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AliasMan02 said:

CJS4715 said:

On the TV series front, they were tossing around rumors about a show for ABC as far back as last August if I remember right (. The concern seems to be producing it at an acceptable SW universe level with a TV budget. I know there was a story idea put together with Coruscant as the setting.


They'd be better of doing their version of Firefly out in the Outer Rim to limit the CG. And doing it Sherlock style rather than a series.
Since 1313 was canned as a game, I've thought that it would probably make a good Netflix series and a story set around Coruscant would give 1313 some credit as a posibility IMO. But yeah, the long understood concern with doing a live action show with any force user involved was the special effects budget required.
Sarduakar
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AliasMan02 said:

But we know that at the time Yoda said it in Empire, it did not mean Leia, which makes it at least somewhat interesting in the context of the Ezra conversation (which I agree has no merit).

Refresher for those who don't recall: as of Empire, Luke and Leia were not siblings. That was invented for Jedi to resolve the love triangle. Luke was to have a sister who is still out in hiding in the far reaches of space. She would appear in the next trilogy that never came to be after Jedi was replanned.
And Kenobi didn't know about the other sister? i guess that is implied.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Would you all be for or against the idea of retconning that line to be in reference to Rey? What if he could foresee another powerful force user years ahead of time?

Also, if Leia wasn't planned to be Luke's sister in ESB, why was she able to communicate with him via the force in Cloud City?
CJS4715
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The Coruscant story revolved around a few families fighting for control of the underworld. So, it'd be more of a crime / mafia type story in the Star Wars universe, I suppose. The underworld part of Coruscant as the backdrop would cut down on some of the production costs as it wouldn't have to be a CGI world like in the films.

To be fair, I think there is about a 1% chance of Del Toro being Ezra. It's a tie in that would even make Lucas blush a bit. I like the scavenger / collector idea for Del Toro. It might even be interesting if he has taken up residence in Vader's castle.
Flashdiaz
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CJS4715 said:

The Coruscant story revolved around a few families fighting for control of the underworld. So, it'd be more of a crime / mafia type story in the Star Wars universe, I suppose. The underworld part of Coruscant as the backdrop would cut down on some of the production costs as it wouldn't have to be a CGI world like in the films.

To be fair, I think there is about a 1% chance of Del Toro being Ezra. It's a tie in that would even make Lucas blush a bit. I like the scavenger / collector idea for Del Toro. It might even be interesting if he has taken up residence in Vader's castle.

my unsubstantiated theory is that he's a crime boss.
fig96
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I watched the series and had no idea that was even him in CW till someone here pointed it out.

So yeah, not remotely necessary, though he could've used a bit more depth in the film. I believe there's been rumors that the revised version of Saw Guerra will be showing up in Rebels.
jabberwalkie09
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He already showed up on "Ghosts of Geonosis" this season.
AliasMan02
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fig96 said:

I watched the series and had no idea that was even him in CW till someone here pointed it out.

So yeah, not remotely necessary, though he could've used a bit more depth in the film. I believe there's been rumors that the revised version of Saw Guerra will be showing up in Rebels.


We saw him already, still intact and whole, working for the Rebellion. I doubt he makes another appearance because it will be tough to get Forrest to do it again.
fig96
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Well there you go. I still need to watch Season 2
Ag Since 83
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Against. Very very against. The original trilogy should stand as a story with an ending and not directly refer to anything from VII onwards
jabberwalkie09
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fig96 said:

Well there you go. I still need to watch Season 2

Just a tad behind.
Sarduakar
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Quote:

Would you all be for or against the idea of retconning that line to be in reference to Rey? What if he could foresee another powerful force user years ahead of time?

Only 1 step below "Han shot first" issue.
hunter2012
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jabberwalkie09 said:

CJS4715 said:

It is a crazy theory, and I agree, I'd want him to be fleshed out in the movie. If you want more, hey, there is this cartoon, but if you are an adult without kids - the movie should suffice in giving you enough background. If it were Ezra, one could easily make the argument that he is the other hope referenced by Yoda, which would be a mind **** of the highest degree for me. 30 years of assumptions just wiped away.
Frankly, the issue with Saw was the lack of fleshing out how he connected with Galen Erso. Well that and the crazy, off the wall stuff in R1 with Saw. None of the background, of which he appeared in a grand total of 4 episodes from TCW, was important to the movie. The explanation that he was someone who was part of the Rebellion that eventually grew disillusioned with the lack of action and struck out on his own, eventually being effectively disowned by the larger rebellion because they disapproved of his move violent, indiscriminate actions. Which is fine for why he left the rebellion, but not how he connected back to the Erso family.

And that's a separate matter from him originating from TCW. So I don't think that the complaint that he originated from TCW and you would have to watch a cartoon holds much weight.

I don't see them over turning the "there is another" being assumed as Leia.


The tie ins are in the R1 prequel book Catalyst.
redline248
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Saw's appearance in rebels was total fan service, since it came directly after the movie. That or Filoni knew about the problems people would have with the character in R1 and was his attempt to give his craziness some depth.

In regards to "there is another," I don't see how it can be anyone from the future (such as Rey). For one thing, if Luke fails (which is the topic of discussion when Yoda says that) there is literally no more Jedi to stand against the empire/dark side. Not to mention anyone to find and train Rey.

I believe Alias when he says that about Leia not written as the sister yet, but as Brian says why then could Leia hear Luke's call through the force? Also, depending on who provided the details on when she was written as the sister (Lucas?) the info could be faulty.
Ag Since 83
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The problem with Saw (and he was the weak link in R1) wasn't his background from TCW. I agree they could have explained his connections to the Ersos in more detail for those who didn't read Catalyst, but even that was much further developed than say the Luke-Biggs connection in IV (not counting deleted/special edition/radio drama scenes that wouldn't be known about in 1977). The main problem was the weird octopus thing and the way they portrayed him as this worn down/injured/borderline over the top nutcase with no real explanation other than "he was in some battles once." The weirdness of the performance was distracting with so little context
fig96
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jabberwalkie09 said:

fig96 said:

Well there you go. I still need to watch Season 2

Just a tad behind.
Oh, I realize Trying to find a good way to watch reasonably legally.
jabberwalkie09
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That doesn't really change the point; that the issue isn't with where he originated but the way he was written in the movie itself.
AliasMan02
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redline248 said:

I believe Alias when he says that about Leia not written as the sister yet, but as Brian says why then could Leia hear Luke's call through the force? Also, depending on who provided the details on when she was written as the sister (Lucas?) the info could be faulty.


They were close and Luke was in love with her. It makes sense that he would call to her.

First of all, they make out on Hoth. So I think that's strong evidence. All of the source about the changes in Jedi are from Gary Kurtz, who honestly is as much to thank for Star Wars as Lucas. The main difference is that his story has never changed about Jedi, where Lucas is a damn near compulsive liar and can't even keep his stories straight on the subject.
jabberwalkie09
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fig96 said:

jabberwalkie09 said:

fig96 said:

Well there you go. I still need to watch Season 2

Just a tad behind.
Oh, I realize Trying to find a good way to watch reasonably legally.
I mean, you could buy the seasons digitally on Amazon Video. The one downer is that season 2 was split into two parts IIRC.
fig96
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jabberwalkie09 said:

fig96 said:

jabberwalkie09 said:

fig96 said:

Well there you go. I still need to watch Season 2

Just a tad behind.
Oh, I realize Trying to find a good way to watch reasonably legally.
I mean, you could buy the seasons digitally on Amazon Video. The one downer is that season 2 was split into two parts IIRC.
Yeah, have been tossing around getting them on iTunes (have most of my media managed through there for better or worse). I just got an iTunes gift card so will prob pull the trigger soon...
redline248
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AliasMan02 said:

redline248 said:

I believe Alias when he says that about Leia not written as the sister yet, but as Brian says why then could Leia hear Luke's call through the force? Also, depending on who provided the details on when she was written as the sister (Lucas?) the info could be faulty.


They were close and Luke was in love with her. It makes sense that he would call to her.

First of all, they make out on Hoth. So I think that's strong evidence. All of the source about the changes in Jedi are from Gary Kurtz, who honestly is as much to thank for Star Wars as Lucas. The main difference is that his story has never changed about Jedi, where Lucas is a damn near compulsive liar and can't even keep his stories straight on the subject.


So his love makes her able to sense things through the force?

Also, I don't think I would call it making it when Leia kisses him to piss off Han and make him jealous.
CJS4715
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Yea, I guess I always thought Leia and Luke communicating meant they were at least both force-sensitive. Of course, I have the bias of never having lived in a world where ROTJ didn't exist.
AliasMan02
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redline248 said:

AliasMan02 said:

redline248 said:

I believe Alias when he says that about Leia not written as the sister yet, but as Brian says why then could Leia hear Luke's call through the force? Also, depending on who provided the details on when she was written as the sister (Lucas?) the info could be faulty.


They were close and Luke was in love with her. It makes sense that he would call to her.

First of all, they make out on Hoth. So I think that's strong evidence. All of the source about the changes in Jedi are from Gary Kurtz, who honestly is as much to thank for Star Wars as Lucas. The main difference is that his story has never changed about Jedi, where Lucas is a damn near compulsive liar and can't even keep his stories straight on the subject.


So his love makes her able to sense things through the force?

Also, I don't think I would call it making it when Leia kisses him to piss off Han and make him jealous.


Leia feel's Han's death from across the galaxy. And doesn't Anakin know Padme is in danger at some point? There aren't many rules with the Force, really.
jabberwalkie09
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There's precedent in canon for people with strong connections between each other being able to call out to each other. Mainly in TCW between Ahsoka and Plo Koon, Ahsoka and Anakin, and Kenobi and Anakin. When one or the other was missing, one of them was able to feel them out and find them. I don't think their love is necessarily a prerequisite for it, but rather a strong connection.
CJS4715
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AliasMan02 said:

Leia feel's Han's death from across the galaxy. And doesn't Anakin know Padme is in danger at some point? There aren't many rules with the Force, really.


Well, Leia could be sensing Han's death due to Kylo being present.
Anakin senses Padme is in danger when he is right outside the room of the perceived danger (episode II); I doubt it was related to Padme.
Ag Since 83
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I completely believe that there was originally supposed to be a different sister, but I don't think it's a big deal. Stuff gets changed during the process with rewrites, and also this is one of the few changes Lucas made that I think works for the better:

  • It allows Leia to choose Han while still forging a closer relationship with Luke, keeping our main 3 characters together
  • It avoids introducing a major character in the third act of the trilogy when there are already enough key players
  • What was she gonna do? Fight Vader or the Emperor? For the hero's journey, it doesn't make any sense for Luke to have any help in that fight
  • And as for Obi-Wan's quote, even knowing about Leia his comment about Luke being their last hope makes sense. Leia doesn't even know who she is and they have no way of telling her, unless Obi-Wan appears as a Force ghost to her which I guess they could do but we've never seen a Force ghost appear to someone without Jedi training.
redline248
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unrelated, and I know some of y'all won't care...

https://www.humblebundle.com/star-wars-3-bundle

bunch of Star Wars games on sale.
redline248
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jabberwalkie09 said:

There's precedent in canon for people with strong connections between each other being able to call out to each other. Mainly in TCW between Ahsoka and Plo Koon, Ahsoka and Anakin, and Kenobi and Anakin. When one or the other was missing, one of them was able to feel them out and find them. I don't think their love is necessarily a prerequisite for it, but rather a strong connection.
I think you're making my point. They are all force users. And Leia feeling Han's death is a bad example if you're trying to make the case she isn't a force user. It basically confirms her being the other Skywalker Yoda mentioned, retconned or not.

There aren't examples of Han sensing things through the force related to someone to whom he has a strong connection. All the way back to A New Hope we've seen force users knowing things over long distances. I think the evidence is that Leia was using the force, implying her character was meant to be a force user.

Even from a story telling perspective, I think the writers were leaving a clue. You have Obi-wan tell Luke he can't interfere, Yoda say there is another Skywalker, then Luke...after first calling for Ben, calls to Leia.
jabberwalkie09
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redline248 said:

jabberwalkie09 said:

There's precedent in canon for people with strong connections between each other being able to call out to each other. Mainly in TCW between Ahsoka and Plo Koon, Ahsoka and Anakin, and Kenobi and Anakin. When one or the other was missing, one of them was able to feel them out and find them. I don't think their love is necessarily a prerequisite for it, but rather a strong connection.
I think you're making my point. They are all force users. And Leia feeling Han's death is a bad example if you're trying to make the case she isn't a force user. It basically confirms her being the other Skywalker Yoda mentioned, retconned or not.

There aren't examples of Han sensing things through the force related to someone to whom he has a strong connection. All the way back to A New Hope we've seen force users knowing things over long distances. I think the evidence is that Leia was using the force, implying her character was meant to be a force user.

Even from a story telling perspective, I think the writers were leaving a clue. You have Obi-wan tell Luke he can't interfere, Yoda say there is another Skywalker, then Luke...after first calling for Ben, calls to Leia.
I wasn't disagreeing with the idea that force users have the ability, rather I was saying that I don't think that love is a prerequisite, just like I said. In the case of Leia, she showed no affinity during ANH for the force that I can recall. It only really popped up first during ESB at Cloud City, and that was more or less because Luke was reaching out to her. I can't say that's evidence to her being force sensitive or using the force. Her affinity and sense for things didn't become apparent until ROTJ, and mostly because Luke was beating around the bush of her being his sister and then when the Death Star II was destroyed it was more apparent that she could feel him specifically.

Yoda sensed the death of the Jedi during Order 66. Kenobi felt the impact of Alderaan during ANH. One of the quotes to remember, but Lucas seemed to have tried to explain with Midichlorians, is that the force is in all living things.
redline248
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Yeah, we're on the same page. My mention of love was a reply to Alias, not me suggesting it was necessary.
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