I'm not necessarily against this idea, but it also feels so been-there-done-that that it's hard to muster any real enthusiasm. I don't see how you do Batman's origin story any better than Batman Begins (specifically, the first hour, up to Batman's debut), but I do get how the material might lend itself to a decent weekly series. Not to mention, by the time this airs, it'll have been almost a decade since Begins was in theaters (which is crazy), and that's an eternity in franchise world.

Just hoping it's more serious & grounded and not another Smallville or Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. I can hardly stand to watch network dramas anymore, but if I had to pick one of the big four networks, Fox at least takes more chances with their dramas than the others. Then again, I tried to give Almost Human a shot - another FOX show of a similar ilk - and I didn't last 20 minutes. The gap in quality between network and cable dramas is just so insanely wide. Here's hoping Gotham can narrow it...

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/13/foxs-gotham-is-a-batman-origin-story-and-will-have-a-christopher-nolan-esque-tone


[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 1/13/2014 11:43p).]

Can't read the article at work, but it will be interesting to see how they resolve the rights to a lot of characters with what is being done on Arrow, which borrows heavily from the lower end of the Batman rogues gallery. In fact, I'm about 90% sure that much of the first season of Arrow was originally written as a Batman series.

I really like Arrow, but find SHIELD to be not quite up to snuff (though it's gaining some momentum now that they have a consistent enemy/threat). The difference, I think, is that SHIELD uses new villains/characters and have had trouble establishing characters that "click" while Arrow's use and adaptation of existing characters that have been refined over many, many years, gives them a leg up. Also, the "flashback" format in Arrow is very strong.

I'm sure Gotham will go the Arrow route, as Batman without his villains really suffers. Getting to see the city really mapped out and play a role will be fun, along with GCPD, the crime families, etc.

If DC was smart, especially given Marvel's new deal with Netflix, they would get with HBO/Showtime and develop a Batman series. Or, maybe even better, a miniseries in the Sherlock vein.

We definitely have some timeline room for this story to be told, there's a good decade where we know nothing about what happened to Bruce Wayne (some of which was covered for the first time in Batman Begins). What's interesting is that this isn't the first time this concept has come up, several several years ago there was buzz about a Bruce Wayne series in the works that would have led into a new Batman film.

TCTTS, while I enjoyed Batman Begins I really would've preferred a storyline closer to the Batman: Year One graphic novel where Bruce Wayne returns home and takes back the city from a corrupt Gotham city government. Very worth a read if you haven't before, the Batman: Year One animated feature (available on Netflix) is also spot on to the original source material.

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Can't read the article at work, but it will be interesting to see how they resolve the rights to a lot of characters

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According to the article, FOX will have licensing rights to the full Batman line-up. There's nothing they can't touch, no character or aspect they can't cover.

Which got me thinking... a series might be the only way to actually do The Joker again this soon after Ledger's iconic performance. The only villains specifically mentioned as of now are Catwoman and The Penguin, but you know this has to be building up to some kind of Joker appearance down the road, should it last that long. I seriously doubt a movie-Joker would be "accepted" again this soon, but a TV version, especially told via a multi-episode/season, detailed origin story, might just be doable.


[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 1/14/2014 12:24a).]

fig96 - That's one of the aspects that confuses me about this new iteration. Will there even be an opportunity for Wayne to "come back" at all? Or will his entire origin take place in Gotham? It's almost essential that Wayne leaves Gotham for a period of time in order to train, better-understand various aspects of the world, etc. Really hoping this series doesn't keep him in Gotham the entire time.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 1/14/2014 12:12a).]

From the article...

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They're not certain what age young Bruce will be at this point, but Reilly estimates that he will be about 13 at the start of the series. "The actor will grow-up, if we do our job well he'll be a young man and ready [to be Batman] by the end," he said. "Which isn't to say we might not skip ahead."

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Another intriguing aspect.

You just know their goal is to build up to a movie. If this thing starts airing in, say, 2015, with a roughly 12-15-year-old Wayne, the end of Affleck's run will line-up perfectly.

For WB/FOX, in a perfect world, the show lasts seven or eight or seasons, ending around 2022. Affleck probably hangs up the cape around 2020, if not a bit earlier. Either way, two or three years after he's done, the Gotham lead - who we've now seen grow into a young man - then makes the leap to the big screen for Batman's actual adventures.

The casting will be tricky, obviously, but this HAS to be what they're going for. If so, it kind of gets me more excited...


[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 1/14/2014 12:11a).]

It's Batman so I'm in... but I'm definitely with TCTTS on network dramas. Almost always they just flat out suck compared to their cable competition.

They weren't able to pull that off with the Smallville series, though.

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They weren't able to pull that off with the Smallville series, though.

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That was a very different time. Before the Marvel cinematic universe and before TV really became what it is today. The way all this stuff blends together now, builds, etc., it's totally possible. Even probable. I'd honestly be shocked if this doesn't lead to a movie franchise.

They sucked with smallville but have been killing it with Arrow with a branching off of the Flash

Arrow has been the best comic TV series I've seen since the batman animated series of my childhood. I have a hard time seeing them differentiating the shows enough.

As for bringing the joker back, I just hope they don't bring him back solely for the fact that they want the joker back. He's my favorite villain out there (heck, favorite comic character out there) so I hope whenever they bring him back they do a REALLY good job with it.

And about that 13-15 year old Bruce Wayne in season 1... Really? Who is a kid that age going to fight?

I really like the idea of a year-1 type story line. Leave out all the major villains and have him contend with a city ruled by the major crime families, Black Mask and a hyper-corrupt Gothom PD. Make Gordon a co-star. Really shine a light on the differences in how Gordon and Batman go about their missions and the styles of lives they lead.

Leave the joker out for at least 3 seasons, but feel free to throw in the Red Hood ;-)

^ I don't think a young Bruce will actually be doing that much fighting. From what I understand, this would be more of a Gotham PD vs escalating crime / emerging villains type thing. Bruce's storyline, I think, would be more of a coming-of-age drama, with the two story lines intersecting here and there. Bruce will likely be dealing with the death of his parents, coping with being a billionaire orphan, etc., while slowly being driven to defend the city via whatever ways his story ultimately intersects with that of the more action-oriented Gotham PD plot line.

Yeah, it'd be better with a Year One storyline that incorporated flashbacks to Wayne's childhood.

[This message has been edited by jeffk (edited 1/14/2014 7:05a).]

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As for bringing the joker back, I just hope they don't bring him back solely for the fact that they want the joker back. He's my favorite villain out there (heck, favorite comic character out there) so I hope whenever they bring him back they do a REALLY good job with it.

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Something interesting about doing the Joker on a TV show right now is that you have the crossing of two new trends: 1) Joker is a huge name that will get a ton of draw, and 2) A-list stars are lining up to do iconic TV roles, left and right.

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I really like the idea of a year-1 type story line. Leave out all the major villains and have him contend with a city ruled by the major crime families, Black Mask and a hyper-corrupt Gothom PD. Make Gordon a co-star. Really shine a light on the differences in how Gordon and Batman go about their missions and the styles of lives they lead.

Leave the joker out for at least 3 seasons, but feel free to throw in the Red Hood ;-)

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This, exactly this, which, as far as I've got on the game is pretty much arkham origins.

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fig96 - That's one of the aspects that confuses me about this new iteration. Will there even be an opportunity for Wayne to "come back" at all? Or will his entire origin take place in Gotham? It's almost essential that Wayne leaves Gotham for a period of time in order to train, better-understand various aspects of the world, etc. Really hoping this series doesn't keep him in Gotham the entire time.

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Very true, one of the essential aspects of his character is that he did travel the world to learn the skills needed to become Batman. We don't know any of the details but that central idea has been very consistent.

I need to catch up on Arrow, am about 2/3 of the way through the first season but I keep hearing great things about it. He and Batman really do have quite similar origin stories though.

And just to show that I am not going senile in my 30s, found a wikipedia entry for the original Bruce Wayne show that I referred to. It actually sounds very, very similar...and it ended up becoming Smallville

Season 1 of this could work very well if they follow an approach similar to the Stark family in GoT. Have Thomas Wayne lead the plotline similar to how Eddard had, and show his bond and teachings with his son. This would provide the opportunity to not just set up some of the other characters that would turn to villains (Penguin) or heroes (Gordon [and his family [specifically his daughter to setup batgirl], Alfred), but also set up Gotham as a character as well as the major organizations (GPD, mobs, Wayne Enterprises) that influence the city.

Season 1 would end with Bruce's parents death (spoiler alert?).

Season 2 would begin with Bruce in exile and could be set in a completely different environment than Gotham for the first half of the season until his eventual return to Gotham. What Batman Begins did so well, and could be repeated here, is to introduce Bruce and the audience to threats outside of Gotham that are so much bigger than one city (Ras Al Gul, a faithful adaptation of Bane, etc) that could be revisited in later seasons.





.... this needs to be on HBO/Showtime/Netflix.

^ IsraeliAg's idea for season 1 is a very intriguing one. I like it.

Isn't Gordon in Chicago while Bruce is growing up?

Correct, per Batman: Year One a young-ish Lieutenant Gordon transfers to Gotham PD right about the time a mid20s Bruce Wayne resurfaces in Gotham.

Awesome idea for season one, israeliag. The Stark family arc in GoT is a great comparison.

One thing that could definitely set this version apart - and make it worthwhile - is actually getting to know Thomas Wayne. Hadn't thought of that before. To have him be in a Batman story for more than a few minutes, and have him be an actual character we care about, especially knowing his fate, could make for something fairly unique/special. Hopefully FOX is thinking along these lines...

I think I prefer the idea of Gordon being a life-long Gotham guy. Like in Begins.

Actually, most of Year One revolves around Gordon being an outsider, coming into Gotham PD and trying to combat the corruption around him. That's kind of a big part of his character and a concept doesn't really work as well if he's a guy that's been in the middle of it the whole time.

Yeah, I can see how that would work. If they keep that element, I'm assuming Gordon just comes to Gotham earlier in this timeline. Maybe he starts working for Gotham PD when the show starts, and we're kind of introduced to that world through his eyes.

Heck, I think a first season along israeliAg's lines might be more fun if instead of Jim Gordon they have some other rare good cop who gets killed at the end the same episode the Wayne's are knocked off in. Maybe even a relative of Gordon, to give Gordon a stronger motive for cleaning things up when he arrives in season 2.

So all of season 1 is the Wayne's and the good cop fighting a losing war within the confines of the law, making young Bruce realize he has to go outside the law for recenge/justice when the season ends with the bad guys effectively winning.

The only thing is I think people would want some sort of shadowy super hero around... It might be fun for some other shadowy vigilante to be operating in the perephiry, but you never learn their motive - good or bad - until late in the season. (Even more fun if they're a bad guy, because everyone would assume the vigilante is a good guy since it's a batman show)

Edit: for even more fun, make the mysterious vigilante of season 1 Rhas Al Gul operating under an alias, living in Gotham a year to judge if the city should be destroyed or not. At the end, he concludes it's irredeemable and notes a native son with the resources of the young, orphaned Wayne would be pricelessly helpful in destroying Gotham if he could be covertly guided toward that destiny by a hand from the shadows.

[This message has been edited by Aggie_journalist (edited 1/14/2014 5:34p).]

Well that was quick...

http://latino-review.com/2014/01/exclusive-donal-logue-offered-commissioner-gordon-part-gotham

If Logue does end up with the Gordon role, I think it's an awesome choice. I hadn't known his name until now, but he's always been a great "that guy" in various movies and shows over the years.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 1/14/2014 9:50p).]

Like this choice

So it's a Gordon driven show. Hopefully much more than just a police procedural in Gotham.

Sounds like this is an extension off of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotham_PD

Pretty sure I've read that they had been talking about doing something like this for a while.

Sex Panther beat me to it.

Definitely interested.

Any fellow teens-of-the-'90s / MTV-lovers will definitely remember Logue's breakout performance(s)...

http://youtu.be/Irzus_CUkow

And yeah, SP, this idea has definitely been around for a while. What's confusing is that the creators are saying they're still trying to figure it out, don't know exactly when it's going to air, etc., but then they go and offer the role of Gordon. Surely this thing is further along than they're letting on, or they wouldn't be officially announcing it like they are.

And just FYI, there's also a rumor going around that J.J. Abrams is producing in some capacity, but no one knows for sure. He was recently seen - and this has been confirmed - buying a bunch of not-as-well-known Batman comics from a comic book store in Santa Monica (Bad Robot's office is just a few blocks from the comic store in SM where he was spotted). And he does have a strong relationship with Fox Television, which is currently airing Abrams' Almost Human...

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 1/15/2014 12:37a).]

They should just enlist Andy Samberg and call it "Gotham Nine-Nine."

Aside: We tend to watch Nine-Nine because it's on before New Girl and is kinda entertaining, and they lead in last night with "Golden Globe winner of best comedy series and best actor in a comedy" and my wife and I both went "Really?"

^ Just FYI, the Golden Globes are notoriously fixed. Half the awards given are bought and paid for. And that's not an exaggeration. Everyone knows it, everyone plays along, because it's a great party and brings in the ratings. I'd be willing to put down money myself that Lorne Michaels paid for that win.