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Just Saw Star Trek

11,365 Views | 200 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by Jacques
TCTTS
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Finally saw it last night, and I don’t know that I’ve ever enjoyed a completely idiotic movie more than Star Trek Into Darkness. Up until right around the Khan reveal, I was absolutely loving the ride. And even after that point, it was pretty damn fun, despite the ridiculously convoluted plot. Abrams can shoot the hell out of a movie, and he definitely knows how to keep the pace moving, to the point where you don’t even have time to questions the story’s deficiencies. And I mean that as a compliment. That being said, there were two or three huge issues I just have to vent about, if only to try and make sense of this stuff as I type (though I have a feeling I won’t)...

Cumberbatch did great with the material he was given, but it honestly felt like he initially really was intended to be an original villain named John Harrison, and that Paramount forced the filmmakers’ hand fairly late in the process into having him be Khan. That obviously wasn’t the case, but that’s at least how it felt. He was only a sketch of Khan, with absolutely no depth or sense of history whatsoever. Everything about him was filled out and explained via exposition. Yes, he was super-strong and apparently super-smart, but it was Spock Prime (older Spock) who had to TELL the audience that Khan was the biggest threat they ever faced. We never really got that impression from what we were being shown. I was honestly shocked at how little reverence was given to the character, almost like he was an afterthought. Never mind that he started a war 300 YEARS AGO, and was essentially a fish-out-of-water in the 22nd century. That’s cool. That’s interesting. Yet, they brushed over that entire aspect in a single line of dialogue.

And I wrote this in another thread, but as it pertains to Khan, I think Abrams’ whole “mystery box” schtick finally went to far (and looks like it finally backfired on him at the box-office as well). It was like if Nolan had tried to keep Ledger's identity a secret before TDK came out, for no other reason than he just didn’t want people to know. Fact is, Abrams & co should have never made the identity of Khan a secret in the first place. His reveal served absolutely no purpose. Had we the audience - and especially characters - known the villain was Khan from the beginning, it wouldn’t have affected or changed the outcome of the plot one bit. Now, if it was a surprise reveal in the climax, that'd be one thing. But it wasn’t. Instead, it was Abrams' mystery-box-bullsh* t simply for the sake of needless mystery, and nothing more. What Abrams still hasn't learned is that if you want to keep something a secret, you don't draw attention to the fact that it's a secret. Case in point: the way Shane Black approached this very same issue with Iron Man 3. There was no mystery box he was acknowledging. He simply said from the beginning that a certain character was one person, then revealed he was another. And did so in a way that was absolutely integral to the story. The hidden identity was the point of the whole thing, and played into the theme, the villain’s plan, etc. I appreciate Abrams’ wanting to save everything for the movie-going experience. I get that. But building needless mystery into every single plot for no reason other than adding mystery is just beyond tired at this point. Good thing is, the mystery-box may finally have met its end. Like I mentioned, it definitely played a part in STIP significantly underperforming at the box-office this weekend, and you can bet Lucasfilm won’t use the same tactic with Episode VII (they’ve already acknowledged as much).

But as much as the Khan stuff bugged me, it was nothing compared to the contempt I have for the allegorical BS this movie tried to push. For those who don’t know, Bob Orci, one of the film’s screenwriters, is a HUGE conspiracy theory nut. Like, offensively so. If you follow him on Twitter, every time there’s a shooting, or some government controversy, he’s peddling all these conspiracy links and articles and what not. Like with that TDKR shooting in Denver, Orci’s convinced it was tied in with the government somehow and blah, blah, blah. It really is disgusting. Point is, he’s also a Truther. He believes without a doubt that 9/11 was an inside job. And I’m honestly surprised this hasn’t been mentioned here yet, but STID is blatant and admitted Truther propaganda. Admiral Marcus is Bush/Cheney (Orci confirmed as much on Twitter a couple days ago), a man who “wants his war,” and then uses a terrorist attack as an excuse to perpetuate that war. Khan is bin Laden, the man responsible, but also someone Marcus uses as an excuse to attack the Klingons (i.e. Iraq). Granted, in real life, any of that can be argued as truth. It’s when Orci ties Marcus to Khan with that whole convoluted backstory, that he’s trying allude that our government had ties with the 9/11 attacks/attackers, etc. It’s just utter nonsense, and it almost pisses me off that Orci uses a Star Trek movie to try and make whatever crazy point he was trying make. Granted, filmmakers using their films to push an agenda is nothing new, but when Orci tackles something like 9/11 like he does here, and uses that ridiculously out-of-place title card at the end, it comes off as distasteful, and even disrespectful. And the thing is, the allegory wasn’t even done well. Or subtly. I still don’t know what Orci was trying to say, exactly. I’m sure it had something to do with Kirk’s speech there at the end, but I honestly had stopped paying attention at that point.

There were plenty of other dumb, inexplicable choices made, like the fact that this is now a world in which DEATH HAS BEEN CURED, and man can now apparently transport anywhere in the galaxy with a single device that fits in a gym bag. As mentioned in another review I read, because of that device, they don’t even need spaceships anymore. Not to mention all the other transporter inconsistencies, or inconsistencies like Kirk being able to just CALL Scotty on his flip-phone halfway across the galaxy, in real time. Yet Spock needs Uhura to use the Enterprise to establish elaborate communications with New-Vulcan. There were SO MANY stupid things like that. As if Abrams & co just stopped giving a sh*t. Which may very well have been the case, since the film’s basic plot was nearly identical to that of the last one. Think about it. In each movie, the Enterprise leaves Earth on an urgent mission, arrives at its destination just outside a planet, only to face-off against a much larger ship, as ship debris floats around them. Both movies then utilize death-defying space jumps as means to render the larger ship’s weapons inert. Finally, it becomes a race back to Earth between the two ships, as both villains seek climactic revenge on Starfleet/San Francisco. Seriously, STID is the Hangover II of the Star Trek universe. Same basic plot, same characters, with only a few different locations and slightly tweaked motivations. Even the final scenes were identical. Hadn’t the crew essentially overcome their differences and come together in a happy montage aboard the Enterprise in the last movie?

And yet, like I mentioned above, despite all of these gripes... I somehow still REALLY enjoyed this movie. I feel so confused. Like I’ve been completely duped, and liked it. More than anything, it’s obvious my enjoyment is due to these characters, and these actors, hands down. I LOVE this cast, and the one thing above all that Abrams & co get right is the character relationships and interactions. The phenomenal chemistry of the crew, at the very least, takes my mind off the plot holes as I’m watching. Which is a pretty incredible feat. It’s just kind of lame that it took TWO movies to get the crew to a place of mutual respect and understanding via nearly identical plots. They’ll obviously always have conflict and tension among them - that’s what makes them so fun to watch - but at least now, in the third film, they can FINALLY boldly go where no man has gone before. I just hope Kurtzman, Orci & Lindelof don’t make the trip.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 5/20/2013 10:27a).]
jeffk
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The conspiracy theory stuff stood out to me too, but I'm kind of used to certain sub-set of Hollywood folks painting villains as Bush archetypes. It didn't affect my enjoyment of the movie, I guess.

The plot holes on the other hand, were a bit head-scratchingly obvious though. As in, surely someone had to have mentioned that this doesn't make any sense in the writing of the story. I guess they just didn't care.
TCTTS
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Yeah, it's the caring about pushing an agenda, and the lack of caring about the things that matter (the story, logic, etc.) that really get to me.
TCTTS
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Also, on a personal note, I can actually see Starfleet headquarters from my bedroom window. Had no idea, until I saw the movie, that the majority of the exterior Starfleet headquarter scenes - and a couple of the intrior ones as well - were all shot at the Getty Museum, just up the 405 from me here in Brentwood. Inadvertently saw the first movie in San Francisco, which was fun in and of itself, and now Starfleet headquarters looms in the distance from my apartment. Pretty cool to see.
double aught
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I liked that I didn't know Harrison was Khan going in. It added to the fun of the movie for me.

[This message has been edited by double aught (edited 5/19/2013 3:44p).]
TCTTS
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Fair enough. I can be onboard with that. But did you think this interpretation of Khan justified the build-up/mystery? Because I definitely didn't. I can see how it would be cool not to know, but I just didn't feel like what we eventually got justified the set-up. They brushed over everything interesting about him, which made him come across as incredibly one-dimensional.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 5/19/2013 4:44p).]
PooDoo
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What build up are you talking about? Are you talking about the movie or pre movie news/marketing?
TCTTS
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Both.
tamusc
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I don't really disagree with anything you said TCTTS. I still enjoyed the heck out of the movie though. Regarding the conspiracy stuff, I guess I'm just so used to Hollywood doing that bull**** all the time that I just ignore it when I see it, so it didn't take away from my movie going experience.
tamusc
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The biggest thing to me was glossing over Khan's backstory and underutilizing Cumberbatch.


Spoilers



It will be interesting to see if they use him in future movies given how it ended.
TCTTS
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That's a good point. Maybe they were saving more of his backstory and how it affects him now for a future movie? Still, I wish they would have delved deeper with him this go around. Reminds of The Amazing Spider-Man and how they cut out all the stuff with Parker's father's hand in things, Peter's "destiny" BS, etc. and are saving all that for the sequel instead. STID had the same hollow feel in that regard.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 5/19/2013 6:28p).]
BillOnCapitolHill
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Well I don't mind him being a spook since the military thawed him out and used him. (Which makes me wonder how a 300 year old dude can have the intellect to jump forward and become the master engineer of all new starfleet tech)

I did like finally seeing a Klingon and I like how the planetary patrols looked like bird of preys
tamusc
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It's almost everything in the movie was a teaser for things to come in future movies, at least from a depth standpoint. Still didn't take away the fun for me.

I really did like the slightly reimagined Klingons as well.

Edit - crazy phone and it's crazy icons.

[This message has been edited by tamusc (edited 5/19/2013 7:06p).]
TCTTS
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quote:
Which makes me wonder how a 300 year old dude can have the intellect to jump forward and become the master engineer of all new starfleet tech


Speaks directly to my point. That's exactly what I wanted them to explore more with the character.
BillOnCapitolHill
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I found myself really loving the costumes as well. Whether its Marcus' final shirt, khans high collared black coat or the run of the mill starfleet shirt with the millions of tiny starfleet icons, I just loved the eye catching detail.

In truth, at times I wasn't watching the actor acting, which in sure many aficionados will say is a distraction. But my god this isn't Macbeth, this is Star Trek and I was fully engrossed in this (reimagined) world.
PooDoo
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I don't know how you can blame them for trying to keep things quiet since a leaked Superman draft killed that deal for Abrams.

I liked learning about Khan with the main characters. I really liked the movie.
BillOnCapitolHill
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Cue the WonderWoman running pics.
jeffk
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Does it make me a huge nerd if I found myself wanting one of their dark officer pullovers?

Oh, and the Klingons were awesome... right up until they got their collective asses handed to them.

[This message has been edited by jeffk (edited 5/19/2013 7:29p).]
65532ag
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Excellent movie and extemely entertaining. If I wanted a movie or story to go as I wanted to then i would write my own book. I don't understand why people can't just enjoy movies like this one. As for the politics, if I took offense to everything I didn't agree with I would probably never leave the house. Some people just don't known how to enjoy things.
Ganondorf
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We don't know how long he was thawed out. With superior intellect and reasoning skills it isn't out of the question that he could be put through school to learn future tech. He could be out of the tube for 5 years or so.
Dr. Teeth
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quote:
I liked learning about Khan with the main characters. I really liked the movie.


I didn't. The fact that the audience knows what the characters do not could be exploited to make an absolutely phenomenal movie with a completely different type of suspense.

The alternate timeline creates this unique opportunity that the writers of this movie failed to capitalize on, IMHO.
Nonregdrummer09
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quote:
We don't know how long he was thawed out. With superior intellect and reasoning skills it isn't out of the question that he could be put through school to learn future tech. He could be out of the tube for 5 years or so.


This. The movie alluded to him being thawed out long enough to help them work on certain secret projects. It's why he gives Kirk the coordinates to "go see for himself." I think Benedict played the character as best he could and I thought he did fine, and was even great in some moments.

And yes there are inconsistencies, but that happens in a lot of movies like this (For example, in the big final fight in the Avengers, they are all talking to each other as if they have ear pieces, and yet none of them do.) I still enjoyed the movie a lot and thought it was a great ride, and I thought Spock was GREAT and was taken to another level compared to the 2009 movie.
TCTTS
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Pretty great critique...

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/boldly-going-wrong-why-there39s-no-39star-trek39-39star-trek-into-darkness39/12270

Again, I really enjoyed the movie. That being said, I also really enjoy analyzing where/how things went wrong.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 5/20/2013 12:39p).]
ensign_beedrill
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I feel like this movie was very disrespectful to fans.
PooDoo
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So you wanted a more "I am your father!" type reveal that he was Kahn?
maverick2076
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I think what a lot of people forget is something that got alluded to in the movie. In this alternate universe, the Enterprise hasn't been on their 5 year mission. They don't have the experiences, adventures, or the cohesion of the original series of movies. In the OS, the Enterprise crew had already dealt with Khan once in the TV series. WoK was the 2nd time they had dealt with Khan. This isn't a reboot of WoK so much as it is a reimagining of the first encounter with Khan while using some of imagery from WoK to entice the fans. You also have to remember that the timeframe is not the same. In WoK, Kirk and Carole Marcus already have a long history and a son together. In ID, they are meeting for the first time. Is this relationship going to go the same way as the first one? Remember, Dr. Marcus also developed the Genesis device in the old universe. How is that going to play into the new one?

In my opinion, the writers blended some ideas from 4 different areas in the original series. Obviously, WoK was an influence. So was Space Seed, the original series episode that introduced Khan. However, there are two excellent novels in the Star Trek universe that they pulled ideas from. The first is one that I mentioned in another thread, "Dreadnought!", where a rogue admiral was building a ship in secret to start a galactic war. The second book, "Prime Directive", told the story of what happened when the Enterprise violated the Prime Directive on a primitive planet. Obviously there are significant differences between those novels, but I could see and appreciate the inspiration.

I also loved the reference to Harry Mudd and his confiscated ship.
double aught
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I heard Sulu mentioned a confiscated ship but didn't notice that it was Harry Mudd's. Nice.
TCTTS
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A PHENOMENAL critique from io9. If any of you remember the hilarious Q&A "review" of Transformers 2, this is the next best thing (and guess what, both movies are by the same writers)...

http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 5/20/2013 6:20p).]
jeffk
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The look of terror when Chekov was told to switch to a red shirt was nice.

As was the continued use of Beastie Boys in Kirk's more "adventuresome" moments.
TCTTS
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And a great piece from The Playlist that praises certain aspects of the movie, but shares many of my same issues (expressed much better than I did)...

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/the-best-worst-of-star-trek-into-darkness-20130520

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 5/20/2013 6:20p).]
tamusc
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I enjoyed the heck out of this movie, yet at the same time agree with almost every critique or gripe about it. It really is odd.
TCTTS
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Same here. Don't think I've ever felt this way about a movie.
BillOnCapitolHill
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quote:
The look of terror when Chekov was told to switch to a red shirt was nice.

As was the continued use of Beastie Boys in Kirk's more "adventuresome" moments.


If only the two redshirts died when they went to arrest Kahn on Kronos...
Atreides Ornithopter
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quote:
, I also really enjoy analyzing where/how things went wrong.



This IS star trek in my opinion, no other TV show or movies get ripped apart in terms plot holes especially when it comes to using technology. And those are the trekkies doing it.
TCTTS
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No Trekkie here. In my case, I do this for just about every big movie. Especially the ones written by Kurtzman & Orci.
 
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