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Prometheus Discussion Thread (SPOILERS INSIDE)

24,715 Views | 260 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by OnlyForNow
mikefromdilley
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Alright, just got home from watching Prometheus (originally 2:55am--didnt realize i was going to write so much) and have some thoughts running through my head I want to write down.

First, I thought the movie was great. Even though we had been told this would not be a direct sequel, I kept waiting for that moment where the stories would connect. There were many nods to the original Alien movie as had been discussed before--the concept of being in hypersleep/stasis, David the Android, corrosive blood, the egg chamber, the new "xenomorph" at the end and most obvious the Engineers (Space Jockeys).

A few things I noticed and want to see if others caught the same:

The opening scene - The shots during the opening credits were supposed to be Earth before there was life. The engineer drank the black substance which appears to be a purely organic catalyst for evolution. The ship hovering above the waterfall is how he arrived. His DNA was mutated and when he fell down the waterfall it was dispersed into the water and the cells began to replicate. This is the origin of life as we know it on Earth.

The Engineers have visited Earth many times during the course of human history. Why exactly they came and for what purpose I still don't quite understand.

The cobra looking creatures that killed the first two crew members evolved from the worms in the ground.

Just like the pilot explained, the Engineers basically created a stockpile of the organic material that somehow may have leaked. The holographic images of them running down the corridor must have been when the chit hit the fan. The one that fell and was decapitated must have been inflicted, fell over from the pain and boom goes the dynamite. The others appear to have been locked out of the "star map" chamber by the last surviving Engineer. They died outside the door when whatever evolved creature burst out of their bodies. Why the Engineer chose to go into hyper sleep instead of take off from the planet I still don't quite follow.

I'm not sure I really cared about the old man or the fact that Charlize Theron's character was his daughter. To me, it didn't seem important to the story except for the fact that they had a ton of money to pay for the mission in the first place. Were they trying to make it seem like the old man already knew about the black substance and the existence of the Engineers? Or was he just so obsessed with life that he found out about Ellie's discovery that he had to go "meet his maker."

David asked Ellie about how her father died and I believe he said "bubonic plague." then he said he saw her dreams. Did he mean that literally or could her father have been involved in researching the black substance for the old man's company and was somehow exposed?

What was the point in David spiking Mr. Ellie's drink with the black stuff only to let him be killed when it was discovered he was infected? Did he logically conclude that she would sleep with him and create another evolved creature inside her? I ask only because David wasn't too concerned with what happened to the alien fetus once it was growing inside her nor did he have a reaction when he realized she had it surgically removed. Was he trying to have one brought back to Earth?

I really liked that they made the Space Jockey's face a helmet and discovered that the thing behind it was nearly human. It's like someone had been holding onto that secret for nearly 40 years since the original Alien. I thought this was an awesome basis to create a "loose prequel."

I was at the edge of my seat when the Engineer hopped into the cockpit of that massive gun-looking machine because I figured that was the crossover moment. I feel like they did a great job developing the background, but once the Engineer woke up the story moved a little too fast. It wasn't even 10 minutes I think from the time he woke to when the ship was crashing back down to the ground.

The Ending - I'm pretty sure this is going to be the biggest point of discussion. I wanted to jump up and say "Yes!" when the parasite thing jumped into the Engineer's mouth because I just knew at that point that this was the origin of the Xenomorph from Alien. Well, after the movie was over I realized that that was not the connection I was looking for. Obviously the alien creature came out of the Engineer in the ship while he was laying down and not while in the cockpit. I was a little disappointed in that at first, but then I realized that these events happened elsewhere from the original. Ellie leaving the planet with David in an identical ship leads me to believe that there could definitely be a sequel. So when everyone was saying this is not a direct prequel, perhaps it's just semantics. What if this movie is a prequel to the real prequel? What if Ellie finds where the Engineers came from and another line of evolution begins, leading to the setting of the original Alien. Of course, it's obvious to me now this is not even the same planet or moon as the events in Alien occurred on the planet LV-426 and this movie takes place on LV-223. I think that's ultimately where Ellie is going.

So overall, I thought the movie was entertaining and they definitely stuck to the "this is not a direct prequal to Alien" mantra, but I'm convinced now that it means this could really just be the prequal to the prequal.

IBtl;dr

[This message has been edited by mikefromdilley (edited 6/8/2012 4:20a).]
GiveEmHellBill
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Okay, I've been hashing my feelings out about this for several hours now, and I've now gone to some other sites and read some of the discussions (and let me tell you, there are a whole lot of disappointed people out there) and I still can't wrap my head around some things.

First off: I thought it was a good movie. Sure, there are problems. Weyland's character showing up as being on board the ship the whole time was unnecessary. It wasn't a surprise (I suspected it from the beginning) and making Theron his daughter (SURPRISE!) wasn't gasp! worthy or even any point to her character's motivations.

Okay, now onto my biggest problem: While we've been told forever now that this movie 'isn't a prequel to Alien - it just takes place in that movie's universe', we have been handed all the elements from the first film on a platter here: The horseshoe shaped ship, the space jockey, the chest-bursting Alien at the end....then they fail to give us any scenarios how the crew from the Nostromo comes across them a century later.

First off, the planet names don't match. So, did Ripley even visit the same planet? There were more than one ship on the planet, so did another Engineer wake up, get impregnated by the Alien, take off and crash on another planet where an Queen Alien bursts from his chest and then proceeds to set up shop? If so, that's a pretty big leap for us to buy when they give us no explanation.

In the post-movie discussion I had with friends, I said that it was nice that Scott didn't spoon-feed us how this movie dovetails with Alien. We were left to theorize ourselves as to how a Space Jockey got impregnated and what the significance of the non-matching planetary names was. Now, after mulling it over, I'm actually wondering if this is, in fact, a gigantic plot hole or Scott and writer Lindelof didn't care enough to want to let us in on it.

All in all, a decent movie with stunning visuals, but waaaayyyyyy too many unanswered questions when this whole movie was just INVITING questions from us fans. This movie could easily have been made with no connection to the Alien franchise and it would have been great. Attaching it to the Alien franchise with the whole "Space Jockey" thing just makes it a disappointment because it doesn't answer all of our burning 30-year old questions; it actually just confuses us more.
Rule Number 32
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you know they could make a Prometheus 2 and have it actually be the prequel right? Technically, that would make prometheus 1 not the alien prequel. you seem determined that this cant happen and that somehow the movies are still connected, despite them telling us constantly that they arent.

Maybe they just really liked the design of the space jockeys and they knew fans wanted a movie to explain it, so they made a movie about them. Not that hard to swallow.

I dont understand how you can not like a movie for being exactly what the director and producer have been saying that it was for the past couple of years...
GiveEmHellBill
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quote:
"Maybe they just really liked the design of the space jockeys and they knew fans wanted a movie to explain it, so they made a movie about them. Not that hard to swallow."


Except that doesn't make any sense.

You don't make a movie about the Space Jockeys from Alien and show us who they are and then fail to connect what we knew about them and what you're now telling us about them

During this movie's production, Ridley Scott kept insisting that "this isn't a prequel to Alien, simply a story set in that same universe." And then he gives us quite clearly an Alien bursting from the Engineers chest at the end. And now all the advertisements of the film are stressing how "Before Alien....there was Prometheus" which is clearly meant to tell us it's a prequel leading in to the events of the first film.

The Alien being born from the Engineer and the dead Space Jockey found in Alien just do not match. There is no connective threads between them to lead us from Point A (end of Prometheus) to Point B (beginning of Alien).

Where was this second Space Jockey and how did the Alien get inside him? And for that matter, are these the same planet? If not, how the hell do you explain this Alien lifeform getting off it's "birth" planet and getting to LV 426? This is a plot hole and it's Ridley Scott's fault for trotting out the Space Jockey and his ship, teasing us with it's connection to the first film and then failing to deliver an explanations.

And I haven't even brought up another issue: they found a pile of dead Engineers who were trapped outside a door. They were trying to escape something and got trapped. Some of the corpses had holes in their bodies...like something broke out. After this scene, it's never mentioned again. What busted out? What happened to them? There was no other organic life in the ship. The new organic life forms were formed when the humans interacted with the goo-covered vases and that set off the chain reaction that ultimately led to the birth of the first Alien. Yet another plot hole.
mikefromdilley
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I'm going to agree with Rule 32 here, as someone who was initially scratching his head about the connection even though they told us over and over again that it was only the mythology of the Engineers that would be link.

The primordial ooze they created IS the critical component here. It is the origin of many races of beings (Humans & Alien Xenomorphs, as well as others that I'm sure are out there that we don't know about). Is it that far-fetched to believe that the evolution that created the Alien that burst out of the Engineer's chest at the end of Prometheus could be replicated elsewhere in the Universe? I think that's what they were trying to illustrate here. Evolution is a strong theme in this movie. Evolution can take many different turns and it is always happening. The branch of Evolution that eventually creates the Alien Xeno's happened, but it happened elsewhere.

The events of Prometheus and Alien are not supposed to be connected end-to-end. David said that there were many other ships just like the one they downed. Heck, she flew out in one with David's body, off to search for the origins of the Engineers. If anything, I believe they just opened up the mythology to create an entirely new franchise if they choose to do so. If there is to be a sequel, I think it will be about Ellie reaching the origins of the Engineers themselves. There will be more ships and more Engineers and more primordial ooze and more creatures. Eventually, one of those will be the Alien Queen and you will have your direct connection. It could happen.
Rule Number 32
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Lol, bill, you completely missed the point of my post. There is going to be a prometheus 2, its pretty obvious. you arent SUPPOSED to have the answers to all the questions you are asking. Think of this movie as a prequel to the real prequel - at least thats my guess. Thats like saying that you should know exactly how the events in alien: resurrection came to be after only watching the first alien movie.
GiveEmHellBill
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quote:
"There is going to be a prometheus 2"


Maybe Cameron will take over for Ridley again.

Oh wait, he's stuck on Pandora for the rest of his career.
israeliag
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I have an issue with the engineers that were found with holes in them too.

I imagine that what ever burst out of them possible didn't survive the 2000 years from what happened to the engineers to when the Prometheus landed.

Another issue I have is that of all the people they had get lost, it was the geologist who brought the gadgets that mapped the caverns... the guy who knew how to access the map...

I liked the Charlize Theron being the daughter, because the question is still open as to whether she's an android or not. I believe she is - one with emotions, unlike David - as she was the first out of stasis and was doing push ups like it was nobodies business.

Finally, my favorite question that they didn't address, is why did they want to annihilate us 2000 years ago? Considering the cross was a recurring motif, could it have anything to do with Jesus?

Also, IMO this was 100% an Alien prequel.
israeliag
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quote:
Why the Engineer chose to go into hyper sleep instead of take off from the planet I still don't quite follow.


Most likely that Engineer was in stasis before shyte hit the fan.
GiveEmHellBill
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quote:
"The events of Prometheus and Alien are not supposed to be connected end-to-end."


I'm not saying they had to connect, but I can't see how they can connect. The gap is too large.

I guess my biggest disappointment with this film is that it's the biggest tease I've ever seen. To give us Space Jockeys and then not show how it fits into what we know is a big deal.

Here's the thing: had Ridley Scott finally returned to sci-fi and had made a film that deals with the origin of life on our planet and a group of scientists following a 'signal' to a distant planet to try and discover where we came from would have been a highly anticipated film. If you take out any connection to the Alien films from this movie, then this film would have been better. To place it in context of the Alien film and then do nothing with it is just a tease that was completely unneccesary.

Plus, almost all the 'scientists' were completely brain-dead. "Mysterious bubbling goop? Let me rub my hand in it!" "Weird alien cobra coming up out of a black ooze? C'mere and let me pet you!" "Maggot-like creatures swimming around my eye? Nope, better not tell anyone. I'll be okay."
mikefromdilley
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quote:
You don't make a movie about the Space Jockeys from Alien and show us who they are and then fail to connect what we knew about them and what you're now telling us about them


What did we really know about the Space Jockeys before this movie? Nothing. We know that somewhere one of them was piloting a ship when a creature burst out of it's chest. That's it.

quote:
During this movie's production, Ridley Scott kept insisting that "this isn't a prequel to Alien, simply a story set in that same universe." And then he gives us quite clearly an Alien bursting from the Engineers chest at the end.


He was right. The theory of evolution in the movie created Humans and also created the Alien Xenomorph that we are familiar with. You can't constrain this idea to just two branches of evolution when clearly these Engineers have been traveling the Universe for ages. My assumption is that, though close, this is the story of a third branch of evolution that created a race similar to the Alien, but not exactly. We are all, however, descendants of the Engineers.

quote:
And now all the advertisements of the film are stressing how "Before Alien....there was Prometheus" which is clearly meant to tell us it's a prequel leading in to the events of the first film.


This is still probably true, just as the Silmarillion is before Lord of the Rings, yet an independent story from the events of the trilogy.

quote:
The Alien being born from the Engineer and the dead Space Jockey found in Alien just do not match. There is no connective threads between them to lead us from Point A (end of Prometheus) to Point B (beginning of Alien).


I don't think they were really supposed to.

quote:
Where was this second Space Jockey and how did the Alien get inside him?


LV-426. Perhaps this is Ellie's next destination. Let's say she becomes infected again by the black ooze. This time she does not survive. It kills her and then occupy's another living Engineer. The creature that bursts out of it this time ( while in the cockpit) would be the smoking gun. It would essentially be the same evolutionary pattern. Her DNA combined with the DNA of an Engineer would produce a similar creature, much like a mother's two children are similar but not alike. Honestly, this could possibly be the entire story arc of a sequel (actual prequel) if they wanted it to be and I would accept it.

quote:
And for that matter, are these the same planet? If not, how the hell do you explain this Alien lifeform getting off it's "birth" planet and getting to LV 426? This is a plot hole and it's Ridley Scott's fault for trotting out the Space Jockey and his ship, teasing us with it's connection to the first film and then failing to deliver an explanations.


Not a plot hole. Not the same planet. Not the same creature. I think you're trying too hard to find the connection.

quote:
And I haven't even brought up another issue: they found a pile of dead Engineers who were trapped outside a door. They were trying to escape something and got trapped. Some of the corpses had holes in their bodies...like something broke out. After this scene, it's never mentioned again. What busted out? What happened to them? There was no other organic life in the ship. The new organic life forms were formed when the humans interacted with the goo-covered vases and that set off the chain reaction that ultimately led to the birth of the first Alien. Yet another plot hole.


I really like this question; although I don't think it's too important for the writers to explain what happened. Not every detail has to be spoonfed. We should be free to theorize what exactly happened. What if the life forms that burst out of the Engineers were simply on the other side of the moon? Also, what if what we saw wasn't really the birth of the "first" Alien.

I would ask "Why did the Engineer's have a wall sculpture that basically looked like the Alien Xenomorph? It's almost like they were already a part of their history. Could there have been other Aliens created in the past that we just don't know about?


Again, sorry for the rambling, but this movie has me thoroughly intrigued.

[This message has been edited by mikefromdilley (edited 6/8/2012 10:43a).]
israeliag
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Posted this in the other thread. Moving it here:

I only watched the viral vids, and not the trailers. I was expecting quite a different movie - much more sci-fi. This turned out to be very close to Alien in its structure and story progression. read: horror in space. However, it has a great sci-fi core and leaves you thinking and with questions (after all one of the writers is Damon Lindelof who wrote and drove Lost). It was easily the most gorgeous movie I've seen so far. Basically the first 15 minutes are Planet Earth in 3D. The rest is still super gorgeous. But very glad my wife did NOT go. and it's 100% an Alien prequel. It literally happens before Alien, although it's obviously not the Ripley story line.
Rule Number 32
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ok, i am going to post my official prediction for Prometheus 2 here so that I have proof that I am awesome when the next movie comes out...

"Why did the Engineer's have a wall sculpture that basically looked like the Alien Xenomorph? t's almost like they were already a part of their history. Could there have been other Aliens created in the past that we just don't know about?"
I think that is an interesting question that can be answered in the next movie. Here's my thoughts...



they in fact did have these aliens already, obviously using them as basically a WMD as explained in prometheus
and the only reason that the alien in the end of the movie was different looking is because the "typical" alien, a la the one on the wall, is made by linking humans and the xenomorph. the one at the end of the movie had no human DNA, it was jockey/xeno, so it took on jockey looks because it was smoother, white, etc.

so i think we will find that the jockeys had been taking people, which is why we have the cave drawings on earth, to use them to breed queens to build up and army and they would destroy other planets that way. they decided to destroy earth when people rebelled and didnt want them taking our people anymore. they were essentially farming humans because they had figured out that xenomorph + human = badass motherf***er.

DING, PROMETHEUS 2
mikefromdilley
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32, I like your idea for a sequel but want to point out something.

The octopus thing that implanted its "seed" into the jockey actually came from Ellie so technically it would have had human DNA.

My theory is that another xeno-like creature can be created by following the same evolutionary pattern. Black Ooze -> Human -> Jockey = Xeno.

Your theory that they visited earth to cultivate human subjects is still really plausible.
Sex Panther
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I didn't realize that wasn't the same planet from Alien... But the way the engineers ship landed when it crashed was exactly the same way the ship was laying when they discovered it in Alien.

That movie was visually amazing. The 3D was great, and the scene when Fassbendee activated the star map was mind blowing.

I can take anything, but that C-Section scene had me squeamish.

Why did the Engineer flip out and attack them when he woke up?
Nonregdrummer09
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Just a quick thought on Weyland:

The Weyland corporation is the vehicle for the movement of people through pretty much all the alien movies, even AVP. (Where you see the inspiration of Bishop's looks) so the Weyland corporation is a necessary vehicle, and it's a vehicle to explain how they got there. The secrets of the Weyland Corporation cause a lot of issues in the Alien franchise. Charlize Theron being the daughter didn't bother me at all, just a lot of plots going on at once.

As far as my opinion of the movie overall: I thought it was great and really enjoyed it, I wasn't disappointed at all and I hope they make a Prometheus Sequel whatever it will be called.
Sex Panther
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quote:
David asked Ellie about how her father died and I believe he said "bubonic plague." then he said he saw her dreams. Did he mean that literally or could her father have been involved in researching the black substance for the old man's company and was somehow exposed?


It was Ebola and I think he was literally watching her dreams, although he could pop up in a sequel. The actor playing her father (Patrick Wilson) is pretty well known. I thought that was a very strange, small role for him.
HeadGames
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I'm not going to real y'alls novel, but I think i got the idea of the main complaint.

We all know the Engineers created weapons, and they would go to these planets to test these weapons.


Alien and Prometheus both took place on different planets if i'm not mistaken. LV426 and LV223 ?

Whats not to say that one set of engineers made their facehugger smaller and faster, while the other engineers made theirs bigger, and stronger. and of course the engineers that made the original facehugger died testing it just like the engineer died in the opening scene of the movie.

after that, I really enjoyed the movie, thought it was very fun, and all the different type of weapons was interesting. My biggest question is what killed all those engineers that was piled up?
HeadGames
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Sex Panther, think of it this way.

They were the Wayland Industries of Engineers, full of dicks that like making weapons.
israeliag
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One thing I don't get is that human that turned into a zombie or whatever it was and wreaked havoc on the hanger deck - what was that? Why did he act that way? Was he just the result of another weapon, or was he being controlled remotely?

As for the Engineers that were all laying dead outside of a door - one of the humans mentioned it reminded him of a holocaust portrayal, so maybe they were executed by other engineers? Perhaps some of the engineers didn't approve of systemically annihilating life on Earth.

A lot more to find out about the Engineers. I guess I should have seen this movie being so mysterious considering Lindelof's involvement.
israeliag
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nm

[This message has been edited by israeliag (edited 6/8/2012 2:18p).]
Bill S. Preston, Esq
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My not-completely-thought-out theory, which I will examine further upon re-watching the movie next week. Feel free to add, amend, comment, or shoot-down as you see fit:

I suspect David had some ulterior motive, and wasn't solely working towards the end of Old Man Weyland. It's unknown exactly what David said to the recently-awoken Engineer. The audience is lead to assume that David told the Engineer about Old Man Weyland's goal, but we don't know that for sure. Based upon the Engineer's reaction to David's statement, it seems just as plausible that David said something like "they are all here to kill you", which then caused the Engineer to act in self-defense. David knew he would be collateral damage of this provoked attack, but that he, as a robot, would likely survive the attack (allowing him to continue his objective, whatever that may be). Perhaps David thought that the humans were impeding his real mission, and thought that this was an easy way to quickly dispose of all of them. If this is correct, him getting beheaded (as opposed to just knocked down and then feigning death) was an unexpected consequence. Also, David knew how to operate the ship without awakening the Engineer, and I think it's likely that he knew what would happen if he awoke the Engineer (destroy all humans), which is additional evidence that makes me think he wasn't working solely in the interest of Old Man Weyland (or perhaps OMW's mission wasn't limited to what he said in the movie).

I also suspect that David might have been less-than honest at the end of the movie when he told the surviving chick he could/would navigate a ship to the home of the Engineers. I believe that David could navigate the ship to that planet if he so chose, but b/c he has some alternative objective (which, at this point is left up to audience speculation), he just told that chick what she wanted to hear so that she would transport him to another ship. Once he's in the other ship, he's completely in control b/c the chick is just relying on his word as to navigation/destination. He now has free reign to complete his alternative objective.
israeliag
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nm

[This message has been edited by israeliag (edited 6/8/2012 2:17p).]
mikefromdilley
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Bill, I really like where you're going with that. True, we don't really know what David told the Engineer before he tore him in half and started killing everyone. We also don't really know why he spiked Charlie's drink to infect him with the black ooze. Was it some kind of test to confirm a theory?

Also, it makes sense that if they are going to keep him as part of the future story, Ellie would go out of her way to take his lower body along. This to me, means that she is going to attempt to re-assemble him somehow.
Bill S. Preston, Esq
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oh yeah, I forgot about the drink spiking. If we are to believe that David is only working for Old Man, then that action makes no sense. Or maybe he was just trying to find a cure for Old Man, and wanted to test the effects of this black goo to see if it could be a possible cure.

I don't recall exactly, but was the chamber where the humans got killed part of the ship that took-off and was then destroyed? I can't recall if survivor chick retrieved David from ship wreckage or if he was still in one of the underground tunnels.
GiveEmHellBill
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One thing that I didn't commend the film for:

It was stunningly gorgeous. I think I've only ever paid to see 3 other movies in 3D before this. On the XD screen, the 3D was good (still hate wearing those image-darkening glasses, though) and the film was breathtaking.

I'd see it again on XD again just because of that.
israeliag
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She retrieved David from one of the compartments of the ship. Did they even call it the bridge or am I mistaken?
Bill S. Preston, Esq
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in that case, perhaps David was looking to hitch a solo ride back to/towards earth...for some reason.
Sex Panther
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We will probably get more answers after Ridley Scott's 8 director cuts.
Saxsoon
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Off to see this sucker in 3d imax after work
mikefromdilley
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Marsuvees, report back with your thoughts!
israeliag
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Bill, I love theories like yours, but I'm of the belief that David simply carries out orders.

After going to the engineer's ship the first time, he reported back to Weyland that they found no life. Weyland told him to try harder (Weyland apparently does not micromanage) and David went back to the vase he collected and tried out some of its black oil (XFiles anyone?) contents on Shaw's boyfriend (the male main scientist).

After seeing Shaw's fetus I think he determined that the experiment with the black oil was not going to lead to anything and resolved to put her away in stasis until Weyland could have first contact with the Engineer that David finds in stasis. Of course Shaw avoids this, but that's of little concern to David as the fetus, it is perceived, is destroyed.

Once Weyland dies I think David becomes concerned for his own survival, or now sees Shaw as the only remaining human from whom to take orders.
Bill S. Preston, Esq
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quote:
but I'm of the belief that David simply carries out orders
same here, I just think that there's evidence that David was carrying out orders from someone other than Old Man.
Saxsoon
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In line now, though it should be said that I have never seen an imax film before so I might be in more awe than I should be
jschroeder
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Was ther anything in the overall story that would have changed without Theron?

Everything she contributed to the plot could have been done by stringer.
 
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