Not to me it didn't. As a fan, I'm disappointed but she had a terrible trials and rough start to these games. Something was clearly wrong and she made a decision. May or may not have been the one I'd like to think I'd make, but she made it, she supported her team from the side and we'll all move on. She still is and in our lifetime may be the greatest gymnast to ever compete. Today does nothing to change that.WelchAg said:
Her legacy took a big hit today, right or wrong
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Yeah, she said she would be good to go. That she was going to rest up and be ready for Thursday... she seemed so nonchalant about it
Not saying this will change her status as the greatest gymnast of all time, which she is, but taking a mental health day during the team competition where they were counting on her, and then bouncing back fully to compete in the individual event is not a good look at all.littlebitofhifi said:Not to me it didn't. As a fan, I'm disappointed but she had a terrible trials and rough start to these games. Something was clearly wrong and she made a decision. May or may not have been the one I'd like to think I'd make, but she made it, she supported her team from the side and we'll all move on. She still is and in our lifetime may be the greatest gymnast to ever compete. Today does nothing to change that.WelchAg said:
Her legacy took a big hit today, right or wrong
It's a bit like Tom Brady deciding after the first drive in the SB that he's not in a good place mentally and benching himself. Backup doesn't play poorly but isn't good enough to win the game. Does it wreck all he's done? No. But that's a weird and crazy stain on the end of a goat career
And if I'm a teammate, I'm going to say the right things, but in my head, there's going to be a major "WTF dude? You totally ****ed us" thoughts
And if I'm a teammate, I'm going to say the right things, but in my head, there's going to be a major "WTF dude? You totally ****ed us" thoughts
Her legacy took a giant hit. You don't quit on your team. Plenty of athletes know they aren't at 100%, but still tough it out and encourage their team. Quitting sets a horrible example, especially when you are arrogant enough to have goat sequins on your costume.littlebitofhifi said:Not to me it didn't. As a fan, I'm disappointed but she had a terrible trials and rough start to these games. Something was clearly wrong and she made a decision. May or may not have been the one I'd like to think I'd make, but she made it, she supported her team from the side and we'll all move on. She still is and in our lifetime may be the greatest gymnast to ever compete. Today does nothing to change that.WelchAg said:
Her legacy took a big hit today, right or wrong
But hey, she's following in the same footsteps as her fellow oppressed "goat", Lebron James, who also quit his team because they were having an off day.
If I was her coach, I'd immediately kick her off the team. That's how you eliminate a distraction.
I think that's pretty easy for you to say who likely doesn't have an inkling of what it means to be an elite gymnast. She did stay for the whole competition and cheered on and encouraged her teammates, none of who seem upset with her at all.
Now, we will start focusing on mental health in sports, particularly with younger women. Between Biles and Osaka, there is more than enough for the media types to talk about with mental health for years.
Rev03 said:
I think that's pretty easy for you to say who likely doesn't have an inkling of what it means to be an elite gymnast. She did stay for the whole competition and cheered on and encouraged her teammates, none of who seem upset with her at all.
They aren't going to show it publicly because they are good kids who know there is nothing positive to come from doing otherwise.
And if we want to get into elite gymnastics resume comparisons, would be happy to share stories but that's silly. I'm sure they are sympathetic to the demons she's battling, but she did screw them over. They are all taking risks, and mentally, how challenging is having to step up last minute. God bless the ones that did. They should be proud
Glad to see F16 is making a full appearanceNASAg03 said:Her legacy took a giant hit. You don't quit on your team. Plenty of athletes know they aren't at 100%, but still tough it out and encourage their team. Quitting sets a horrible example, especially when you are arrogant enough to have goat sequins on your costume.littlebitofhifi said:Not to me it didn't. As a fan, I'm disappointed but she had a terrible trials and rough start to these games. Something was clearly wrong and she made a decision. May or may not have been the one I'd like to think I'd make, but she made it, she supported her team from the side and we'll all move on. She still is and in our lifetime may be the greatest gymnast to ever compete. Today does nothing to change that.WelchAg said:
Her legacy took a big hit today, right or wrong
But hey, she's following in the same footsteps as her fellow oppressed "goat", Lebron James, who also quit his team because they were having an off day.
If I was her coach, I'd immediately kick her off the team. That's how you eliminate a distraction.
Her legacy will take a hit - from the completely uninformed casual fan base who watches gymnastics every 4 years or so and who can't even name any other gymnasts.
Among the gymnastics community, former gymnasts, serious fans, etc her legacy was already secured well before this Olympic competition and her withdrawing this time doesn't change her past accomplishments.
And also, she's not the first athlete to withdraw on the big stage. Or to withdraw from competition due to mental issues. It's just waaaay more visible in an individual sport. And it's also easier to say you tweaked a hamstring, have turf toe, etc than to say 'I'm not mentally where I need to be".
Among the gymnastics community, former gymnasts, serious fans, etc her legacy was already secured well before this Olympic competition and her withdrawing this time doesn't change her past accomplishments.
And also, she's not the first athlete to withdraw on the big stage. Or to withdraw from competition due to mental issues. It's just waaaay more visible in an individual sport. And it's also easier to say you tweaked a hamstring, have turf toe, etc than to say 'I'm not mentally where I need to be".
Considering how terrible her vault was, would you necessarily want her to continue on if you're a teammate? If you think she's mentally cracked, might you want her to get out of the way and let the rest finish the competition?
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To heck with the team and teammates ! It's gold I want for ME !
Is there a deadline for when Biles has to withdraw to allow someone else to compete? Would Jade Carey compete in the All-Around and McKayla Skinner in the Vault if she drops out since they didn't make those finals because of the limit of 2 per country?
I don't know how that works, but I remember reading an article that Skinner had to leave the county within 24 hours of not advancing to finals, so she would be already home. Due to COVID protocols they aren't letting them stick around to cheer on their teammates.
TXAggie2011 said:
Considering how terrible her vault was, would you necessarily want her to continue on if you're a teammate? If you think she's mentally cracked, might you want her to get out of the way and let the rest finish the competition?
Yes, because her floor routine at 80% of her best probably would have ensured gold.
wangus12 said:
My wife (coaching women's vball & T&F for 10+ yrs) with her fancy sports psych background said that with women, they typically don't like the idea of having the "weight" of the nation on their shoulders, especially to the extent that Biles does. Women don't day dream about that sort of thing whereas men typically picture themselves with that type of challenge (aka overwhelming odds/weight of the world). Men tend to thrive on that challenge while women don't like that type of situation
It's. The. Olympics. Especially one of the most high profile competitions in the summer games. What else do they expect?
This article mentions that Carey will compete in the All-Around final if Biles withdraws.mullokmotx said:
Is there a deadline for when Biles has to withdraw to allow someone else to compete? Would Jade Carey compete in the All-Around and McKayla Skinner in the Vault if she drops out since they didn't make those finals because of the limit of 2 per country?
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31897727/why-simone-biles-withdrew-team-final-be-100-percent
Unfortunately, because she is the most high profile athlete for us in the olympics, this will cause people to be over the top with their reactions, whether to support her or to criticize her. Bottom line is that she quit on her teammates. We can say this or that to defend it. But she just Roberto Duran "no mas"ed.
Folded under pressure. If anyone on the team should have been mentally prepared for Olympics' stress it is Biles.
With 30 Olympic and World Championship medals, as the team's leader she should be showing younger girls how it gets done on the big stage.
No excuse for bailing on her teammates at the very last moment, and if she's so fragile she couldn't participate in the team competition, she damn sure shouldn't subsequently compete for individual medals.......
With 30 Olympic and World Championship medals, as the team's leader she should be showing younger girls how it gets done on the big stage.
No excuse for bailing on her teammates at the very last moment, and if she's so fragile she couldn't participate in the team competition, she damn sure shouldn't subsequently compete for individual medals.......
It really is hard to imagine given how much experience she has. I could see a young prodigy with expectations sky high freaking out at their first time on the biggest stage. But she's been there, done that so many times. I think it's as simple as she's eaten up the goat stuff so much (to the point of wearing goat merch) yet she found herself in a bit of a slump at the wrong time (happens to all athletes at some point), and instead of powering through, she chose not to risk failing for the first time by quitting before she could fail
She sure seemed to like the endorsement money and camera attention that comes with having the "weight" of the nation on her shoulders.wangus12 said:
My wife (coaching women's vball & T&F for 10+ yrs) with her fancy sports psych background said that with women, they typically don't like the idea of having the "weight" of the nation on their shoulders, especially to the extent that Biles does. Women don't day dream about that sort of thing whereas men typically picture themselves with that type of challenge (aka overwhelming odds/weight of the world). Men tend to thrive on that challenge while women don't like that type of situation
She enjoyed all the benefits, but without the accountability that comes with it. She choked. But to make sure she didn't have to suffer defeat, she quit instead.
It reminds me in some ways of Michael Johnson's ill-fated and overhyped Fastest Man in the World 150m race. An athlete at the top of their game trying to meet crazy expectations. And not being able to perform. Johnson pulled up with a questionable 'injury' and Biles just withdrew.
Johnson's legacy survived, and Biles' will too. Especially with today's focus on women's mental health.
Johnson's legacy survived, and Biles' will too. Especially with today's focus on women's mental health.
With Osaka withdrawing from the French Open earlier this year and now this, I really hope this is not becoming a trend. "I'm not feeling it today because I'm too overwhelmed, so I'll just quit (in the middle of competition) and say I'm focusing on mental health."
I understand that mental health is a real thing that people deal with, but it seems like these instances are simply professional athletes not being able to handle the pressure which is ironic because that's part of the job they signed up for.
I understand that mental health is a real thing that people deal with, but it seems like these instances are simply professional athletes not being able to handle the pressure which is ironic because that's part of the job they signed up for.
Nm
I don't get the Osaka thing. She pulled out of two major tournaments in a row because of the mental side of things, but gets then decides to accept being the Torch Lighter at the Opening Ceremony and symbol for Japan. She lost in the 3rd round today in straight sets to someone 40 places below her in the rankings that has never made it past the round of 16 in any singles tournamentMy Dad Earl said:
With Osaka withdrawing from the French Open earlier this year and now this, I really hope this is not becoming a trend. "I'm not feeling it today because I'm too overwhelmed, so I'll just quit and say I'm focusing on mental health."
I understand that mental health is a real thing that people deal with, but it seems like these instances are simply professional athletes not being able to handle the pressure which is ironic because that's part of the job they signed up for.
Vondrousova made it the French final in 2019 but yeah, not a top top player right now. Osaka was probably always going to struggle considering she hadn't played a competitive match in a few months while the rest of the field is in peak form.wangus12 said:I don't get the Osaka thing. She pulled out of two major tournaments in a row because of the mental side of things, but gets then decides to accept being the Torch Lighter at the Opening Ceremony and symbol for Japan. She lost in the 3rd round today in straight sets to someone 40 places below her in the rankings that has never made it past the round of 16 in any singles tournamentMy Dad Earl said:
With Osaka withdrawing from the French Open earlier this year and now this, I really hope this is not becoming a trend. "I'm not feeling it today because I'm too overwhelmed, so I'll just quit and say I'm focusing on mental health."
I understand that mental health is a real thing that people deal with, but it seems like these instances are simply professional athletes not being able to handle the pressure which is ironic because that's part of the job they signed up for.
If that's the case I think the team should pull her from it.to protect her of course.taylorswift13 said:
She said she will be doing the individual all around thursday
She also was on the cover of SI swimsuit edition...wangus12 said:I don't get the Osaka thing. She pulled out of two major tournaments in a row because of the mental side of things, but gets then decides to accept being the Torch Lighter at the Opening Ceremony and symbol for Japan. She lost in the 3rd round today in straight sets to someone 40 places below her in the rankings that has never made it past the round of 16 in any singles tournamentMy Dad Earl said:
With Osaka withdrawing from the French Open earlier this year and now this, I really hope this is not becoming a trend. "I'm not feeling it today because I'm too overwhelmed, so I'll just quit and say I'm focusing on mental health."
I understand that mental health is a real thing that people deal with, but it seems like these instances are simply professional athletes not being able to handle the pressure which is ironic because that's part of the job they signed up for.
I'm really not one for bagging on mental health because its a legitimate issue in this country and abroad, but I scratch my head sometimes on where the line is. If she was really struggling with mental health, in my mind, she should take a few months off completely out of the spotlight and seek some counseling. In Biles case, if she really was struggling mentally, then stop competing, withdraw, and take a step back at home. When you are able to bounce back 2 days later and compete for yourself, I question how challenging it truly was.
We aren't these individuals and will never know, but thats the price you pay for the spotlight. You actions and motives get questioned while you stack your bank accounts.
I am by no means condoning her quitting on the team, and while it may not and shouldn't impact her overall place in the athletic activity's history, it definitely impacts many peoples opinion of her.
That said, the media pressure since before the trials has been absolutely insane. I even said something to the wife a week ago about how insane the NBC constant coverage of her being the GOAT was. The commercials and interviews were all just beyond ridiculous and the build up did nothing but set her up for failure. If she is perfect, well she was supposed to be, if she isn't, "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GOAT?!?"
All of these athletes are still human, even the great ones, and even the best ever has an off day, but when NBC talks about you for months on end, even one off day is not acceptable. I can only imagine how much the pressure started building in her head with every mistake she made to the point that eventually that's all she could think about and it was too much. The pressure of knowing that the only way the US wins the gold is she is perfect. At least in the all around the only person that's affected by her making a mistake is her.
That said, the media pressure since before the trials has been absolutely insane. I even said something to the wife a week ago about how insane the NBC constant coverage of her being the GOAT was. The commercials and interviews were all just beyond ridiculous and the build up did nothing but set her up for failure. If she is perfect, well she was supposed to be, if she isn't, "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GOAT?!?"
All of these athletes are still human, even the great ones, and even the best ever has an off day, but when NBC talks about you for months on end, even one off day is not acceptable. I can only imagine how much the pressure started building in her head with every mistake she made to the point that eventually that's all she could think about and it was too much. The pressure of knowing that the only way the US wins the gold is she is perfect. At least in the all around the only person that's affected by her making a mistake is her.
She had an actual goat stitched into one of her leotards. She named a move after herself. She is partially responsible for that as well.Crazy Ag 97 said:
I am by no means condoning her quitting on the team, and while it may not and shouldn't impact her overall place in the athletic activity's history, it definitely impacts many peoples opinion of her.
That said, the media pressure since before the trials has been absolutely insane. I even said something to the wife a week ago about how insane the NBC constant coverage of her being the GOAT was. The commercials and interviews were all just beyond ridiculous and the build up did nothing but set her up for failure. If she is perfect, well she was supposed to be, if she isn't, "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GOAT?!?"
All of these athletes are still human, even the great ones, and even the best ever has an off day, but when NBC talks about you for months on end, even one off day is not acceptable. I can only imagine how much the pressure started building in her head with every mistake she made to the point that eventually that's all she could think about and it was too much. The pressure of knowing that the only way the US wins the gold is she is perfect. At least in the all around the only person that's affected by her making a mistake is her.
While she has been competing with a goat stiched into her leotard, she did not "name a move after herself." It is convention in the sport to name skills after the athlete who first completed it in top competition. She's one of many gymnasts with her name attached to a skill.Quote:
She had an actual goat stitched into one of her leotards. She named a move after herself. She is partially responsible for that as well.
Gymnasts don't name moves after themselves. They innovate and add difficulty and are given credit by others. It's almost like a nickname.you do something unique and others name it. Like the Thomas Flair, Tsukahara, Yurchenko, Gienger, etc. All moves named after people.
Ok. I stand corrected on the named move but she has fully embraced her title as the greatest gymnast ever. She's all over commercials too.
Ultimately, I'm not saying she's the worst person here, but when you claim you are the best and cash in on millions of dollars to get your image all over the place, expectations are going to come with the territory. It also makes it hard to people to feel sorry for you.
Ultimately, I'm not saying she's the worst person here, but when you claim you are the best and cash in on millions of dollars to get your image all over the place, expectations are going to come with the territory. It also makes it hard to people to feel sorry for you.
She's not 12. She's a professional, embraced the moniker, and cashed the checks. With that come expectations like every other professional athlete on the planet. And if you completely bail on your team in the heat of competition because you aren't feeling it that day, you are going to get criticized like every other professional athlete on the planet would.
No it didn't. She's the greatest gymnast of all time, and a great representative of this country.WelchAg said:
Her legacy took a big hit today, right or wrong
She made the tough choice to step down because her performance was bringing the team down, and that decision is likely why we got a silver (and not worse). Today changes nothing.
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