-Austin suburb
-80 year old with type 2 but thin and functional.
-Turned away from the hospital because pulse/ox of 90 wasn't low enough
-Admitted two days later with Covid pneumonia before he could take monoclonal antibodies that were ordered. It will be a miracle if he makes it.

Are we really turning people away because their pulse/ox isn't below 90? An 80 year old with co-morbidities?

There is essentially no sotrovimab available right now. This is the only monoclonal antibody that has efficacy against the current variant.

It is highly unlikely that your acquaintance would be doing any better if they were hospitalized a few days earlier unfortunately. I hope they turn the corner.

He should have been placed on Paxlovid if possible but it does have significant drug interactions.

Similar unfortunate situation for a friend of the family's dad....mid to upper 60s...relatively healthy from all indications...got COVID...was given steroids to fight pneumonia at home...not admitted until pulse ox dropped a few days later....outlook is very poor at this point....

They tried for monoclonal antibodies and Paxlovid but had no luck finding.

We can get military equipment to Europe in basically a day but it takes months and months and months to get a highly effective drug out to people....shame.....

This is another blatant example of our failed healthcare system and failed government policies. It's almost as if the hospital and the government want older people to die.

When they turned him away the first time, did they prescribe any therapeutics? Did they give him a list of vitamins to take. Did they give a flying **** whether he lived or died? These stories are heartbreaking and so unnecessary.

I know one thing. I just turned 55. Whatever I die from, I will not be in a hospital unless I'm a gunshot victim bleeding out.

How is a hospital's decision on the government?

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How is a hospital's decision on the government?

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Because . . . . .Ughhhh . . . . . .mmmmmmmmm . . . . . .give me a minute here . . . . . . .(scratching head and squinting) . . . . . . . . .Damn! . . . . . . Let's Go Brandon!

Charpie said:

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How is a hospital's decision on the government?

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Goverment is responsible for policies that have led to no monoclonal antibodies for patients, as mentioned in op.

Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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How is a hospital's decision on the government?

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Because . . . . .Ughhhh . . . . . .mmmmmmmmm . . . . . .give me a minute here . . . . . . .(scratching head and squinting) . . . . . . . . .Damn! . . . . . . Let's Go Brandon!

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Wow. Brilliant. My answer is above. I'm sure you believe Biden is doing a great job. Pfizer loves him, I'm sure, since he shut down monoclonal anibodies, and now their pfizermectin will make billions.

Btw, I got covid 3 weeks ago. I immediately started taking ivermectin, D, C, Zinc, couple other things. Better in a day. Back to work in 5 days. Back to normal in about 2 weeks.

Charpie said:

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How is a hospital's decision on the government?

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Government not do two things at once for starters....sure...vaccines...but should have simultaneously been pushing Plaxovid and pre-ordered millions and there should be something done to speed up production...no excuses.

Hospitals / doctors not having the full array of possible treatments is an issue when we have an effective treatment...just not enough supply....to be fair i blame Pfizer as much but government could have done more when they clearly have no issue tossing out billions on COVID issues...

But the two main ones that are out there don't work for omicron, right?

So again, how is it on the government that a hospital chose to treat and street a patient?

Charpie said:

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But the two main ones that are out there don't work for omicron, right?

So again, how is it on the government that a hospital chose to treat and street a patient?

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Monoclonal antibodies do work. Ivermectin works. Where is your information coming from? Why would government stop allowing a treatment that has been so successful? The man in the OP should have been given monoclonal antibodies but wasn't, because the government has stopped monoclonal antibodies. Why?

I took ivermectin and got better quickly. The man in the op was given nothing (I assume) and sent home, only to return when at death's door. This story is not new, it's happened since the beginning. Thousands have died needlessly. Many things are to blame, including the hospitals and government.

Both Eli Lilly and Regeneron have come out and said the monoclonal antibodies had little efficacy against Omicron.

The FDA just narrowed their use because of that.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/lab-test-eli-lilly-regeneron-antibody-therapies-lose-out-against-omicron-2021-12-14/

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FRANKFURT, Dec 14 (Reuters) - German researchers have found that COVID-19 therapies developed by Eli Lilly (LLY.N) and Regeneron (REGN.O) lose most of their effectiveness when exposed in laboratory tests to the Omicron variant of coronavirus, likely reducing treatment options if the new variant prevails.

Two groups of Germany based scientists separately found that protection from GlaxoSmithKline (GSK.L) and Vir's (VIR.O) antibody cocktail Xevudy held up when exposed to Omicron in lab experiments, but that this was not the case for Lilly's antibodies, bamlanivimab and etesevimab, and the antibodies in Regeneron's Ronapreve drug.

"The neutralizing activity of several monoclonal antibodies is strongly affected against the Omicron variant and will limit treatment options for Omicron-induced COVID-19," one of the groups, comprising Cologne and Berlin-based scientists, said in their paper that was posted online on Tuesday.
The other group of researchers, most of whom were Goettingen-based, said they found the Eli Lilly antibody cocktail failed to inhibit Omicron viruses from entering human cells, while Regeneron's Ronapreve was "inefficient" in inhibiting Omicron. GKS's sotrovimab, however, remained active against the variant.

The findings have not yet been peer-reviewed for publication in a medical journal.

LESS EFFECTIVE

A number of laboratory studies have previously shown a reduced ability of approved vaccines to neutralise the new variant, but the picture on treatments had been less clear.
According to a real-world analysis in South Africa on Tuesday, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine has been less effective at keeping infected people out of hospital since the Omicron variant emerged last month. read more

Asked about the antibody findings, Ely Lilly said it expected the efficacy of its antibody combination to be lower.

"Due to the substitutions contained within the spike protein of the Omicron variant of concern, it appears that bamlanivimab with etesevimab is likely to experience reduced neutralization activity," said a spokesperson.

The company was conducting its own Omicron tests, also including its experimental antibody bebtelovimab, and would report the initial findings as soon as possible.

Regeneron, which last month cited tests suggesting its drug would have reduced efficacy against the Omicron variant, said on Tuesday that it expected to share more information from further analyses soon. read more.It added it was working on a number of new antibody drugs with potential to fight Omicron.

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https://www.ft.com/content/20396e83-3c32-474f-8a5a-63270214a226

Here is the Texas Tribune article about how only one of the drugs works against omicron
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/12/27/coronavirus-texas-antibody-omicron/

Again, the hospital and doctor chose to treat the patient as they did. Show me HOW the government forced the hospital and doctors hand regarding the patient.

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Ivermectin works.

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We realize you are going to believe whatever you want and that is fine. You shouldn't expect the larger world just jump to conclusions based on gut hunches. That is never how it has worked and it won't start acting that way now.

I have followed information about the monoclonal antibody treatments very closely. I have paid close attention to the CDC and to the Texas Department of Health bulletins and to information from my local regional infusion center.

I agree that the government should step up and do whatever it takes to increase the production of Paxlovid and the monoclonal antibody Sotrovimab, both of which work on Omicron.

Increasing production quickly would not be easy, but I have not seen any sign at all that Biden's administration has worked to help the responsible companies produce more product. Biden has promised to buy doses, but doses are not available.

It has been over a month that we have known that Sotrovimab is the only one that works. Why has no large-scale intervention been attempted? Failure on Biden's part.

As mentioned by other posters, Regeneron and the other monoclonal antibody previously in use do not in fact work on Omicron and are no longer being offered.

Various independent hospitals (Methodist in Houston, for instance) published their decision to quit using Regeneron weeks ago, long before Biden's administration stopped authorization for it.

Charpie said:

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https://www.ft.com/content/20396e83-3c32-474f-8a5a-63270214a226

Here is the Texas Tribune article about how only one of the drugs works against omicron
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/12/27/coronavirus-texas-antibody-omicron/

Again, the hospital and doctor chose to treat the patient as they did. Show me HOW the government forced the hospital and doctors hand regarding the patient.

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The hospital chose NOT to treat the patient, and now he's at death's door. I've provided government flaws above.

Successful battles with covid (examples - me, Joe Rogan, countless others) involve early treatment and throwing tons of therapeutics at it. This hospital told the man in the op to go home. This has been happening from the beginning.

snowdog90 said:

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Charpie said:

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https://www.ft.com/content/20396e83-3c32-474f-8a5a-63270214a226

Here is the Texas Tribune article about how only one of the drugs works against omicron
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/12/27/coronavirus-texas-antibody-omicron/

Again, the hospital and doctor chose to treat the patient as they did. Show me HOW the government forced the hospital and doctors hand regarding the patient.

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The hospital chose NOT to treat the patient, and now he's at death's door. I've provided government flaws above.

Successful battles with covid (examples - me, Joe Rogan, countless others) involve early treatment and throwing tons of therapeutics at it. This hospital told the man in the op to go home. This has been happening from the beginning.

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Great. We agree that the government had nothing to do with how the patient was treated by the hospital.

Wrong. The government did not equip the hospital and doctors the way it should have.

Government's hands are all over the treatment of covid patients. They are a horrible failure, as are many hospitals.

Sandman98 said:

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-Austin suburb
-80 year old with type 2 but thin and functional.
-Turned away from the hospital because pulse/ox of 90 wasn't low enough
-Admitted two days later with Covid pneumonia before he could take monoclonal antibodies that were ordered. It will be a miracle if he makes it.

Are we really turning people away because their pulse/ox isn't below 90? An 80 year old with co-morbidities?

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Was this person vaccinated?
Have they administered monoclonal antibodies yet?
Did they prescribe anything when they sent him home?
How is he doing?

snowdog90 said:

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Government's hands are all over the treatment of covid patients. They are a horrible failure, as are many hospitals.

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We are two years into this 'pandemic' without a standardized protocol for early treatment.

The CDC does have a protocol for early treatment of non-hospitalized patients:

Early treatment protocol

These are the recommendations:




The major problem is that both Sotrovimab and Paxlovid are essentially unavailable.

Again, the Biden people have known about Sotrovimab for over a month and have done nothing. Nothing has been done to mass produce Paxlovid.

OldArmy71 said:

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The CDC does have a protocol for early treatment of non-hospitalized patients:

Early treatment protocol

These are the recommendations:




The major problem is that both Sotrovimab and Paxlovid are essentially unavailable.

Again, the Biden people have known about Sotrovimab for over a month and have done nothing. Nothing has been done to mass produce Paxlovid.
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I just don't think there's anything these companies can do to ramp up production on a months notice. Assuming that is the government's fault just feels like looking for an excuse to rant about the government. Do we know what the supply chain of these drugs are? Do we know what the manufacturing process of these drugs are? Do we know how much technical work it takes to ramp up production. For all we know these drugs are being made at max capacity and ramping up production may requires months or years due to technical or supply limitations. That's not something a government can simply wish into existence. So unless you have evidence that theirs a ton of excess capacity for these two teatments that could have been ramped up on a dime then it's not really the government's fault. I know there isn't excess capacity, because these companies would have loved to bring more product to market in this demand environment. It's just the realities of a pandemic - one that many of you have continually downplayed over and over again.

Agree. There is nothing to support Biden's admin doing more than just pushing the already available vaccines and masks. That is disappointing.

The person I know was vaxxed but not boosted yet due to timing....a therapeutic would have been nice in his instance...

All we want is an administration that can juggle more than one ball and push more than one narrative....


edit: sorry if this is too political for this board but its discussion of availability of a life-saving drug. please feel free to edit. not trying to break rules.

planoaggie123 said:

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Agree. There is nothing to support Biden's admin doing more than just pushing the already available vaccines and masks. That is disappointing.

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That was my original point. Take the CDC guidance referenced above, it's only concerned about symptomatic individuals with the potential to get worse.

When I tested positive it was just a "Welp, call us if you get worse. Nothing we can give you until then."

We should have a regimen (similar to Rev's cocktail) that is widely available and standardized. We should be focused on treating, not 100% on prevention.

Just for perspective - Monoclonals are difficult to manufacture.....I don't think we knew back in November that Omicron was going to be the "winner" variant.

The government is the largest payor of ALL health care related expenses in the US. The amounts the insurance companies pay is a rounding error in comparison. The government directly impacts medical/hospital policies.

OldArmy71 said:

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The CDC does have a protocol for early treatment of non-hospitalized patients:

Early treatment protocol

These are the recommendations:




The major problem is that both Sotrovimab and Paxlovid are essentially unavailable.

Again, the Biden people have known about Sotrovimab for over a month and have done nothing. Nothing has been done to mass produce Paxlovid.

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You are incorrect. There is a lot of Paxlovid in the Austin area. If the treating docs did not know that, that is their fault. If they didn't use it due to a dangerous drug interaction that is reasonable.

Authorized COVID-19 Medication - Walmart.com

You can enter any zip or city and see where Paxlovid is in stock. Walgreens has a phone number (866) 935-0867 where they can help you as well.