Most people use an intuitive decision matrix that they don't even really think about. One side is that the more important it is to attend an event, the sicker you have to be to choose not to attend. The other side is that most people also layer in risk of passing sickness to others who will be present (and whether they care about them).

What's being demanded of normal people by "new-normalists" is to dial up that 'external risk avoidance' factor to 11 (even when they're not sick), indefinitely, and without a proportional positive personal benefit to balance out that sacrifice. Is it reasonable to adjust that dial? Sure. But not to the degree that CNN has brainwashed you into wanting.

Many people know that it just ain't reasonable or sustainable. Call it "fatigue" or "awakening" or "selfishness" but stadiums and bars and churches and schools are full again. Americans are going to weddings and funerals and having one-night-stands and walking through crowds. Much of the global population never even stopped in the first place.

At this point we are talking about 2 different things. Would it be nice if people stayed home while sick, sure. But there are circumstances where it's not possible. Getting sick is part of life and has been forever.

My original comment was living a normal life is not selfish and you disagreed. My comment had nothing to do with how people act while sick. I meant no masks, no mandates, no distancing etc.

No one is trying to tell you not to take precautions, even pointless stuff like masking.

Calling others selfish for not behaving the way you demand falls into the category of being an ass to each other by the way.

Jabin said:

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I meant no masks, no mandates, no distancing etc.

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Well, you do you. But if I'm going to be around old people, immuno-compromised people, or similar, I have no problem at all doing whatever I can to protect them, whether it's wearing a mask, distancing from them, eating outside, opening windows, or whatever is appropriate.

Just because the government has grossly overplayed its hand and become dictatorial doesn't mean that we should be asses toward each other.

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I'm not getting into a debate about the government or if anything even works to prevent the spread.

My family and I will live our lives as if covid neve existed. I'd say you're a bigger ass for trying to control people's lives that will get the sniffles from covid.

Have a great life, I'm done with your nonsense.

Jabin said:

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Coates said:

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Living a normal life isn't selfish.

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Sure it can be - anytime one fails to take into account others, it's selfish.

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And that's how the left wants to use Covid to introduce more socialism.

Philip J Fry said:

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Jabin said:

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Coates said:

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Living a normal life isn't selfish.

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Sure it can be - anytime one fails to take into account others, it's selfish.

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And that's how the left wants to use Covid to introduce more socialism.

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So being personally considerate is socialism now?

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Calling others selfish for not behaving the way you demand falls into the category of being an ass to each other by the way.

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I didn't call anyone selfish nor did I make any demands. Poor attempt at projection.

It's sad when people will not even voluntarily desire to be considerate of others and view complete self-interest as a virtue.

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I'd say you're a bigger ass for trying to control people's lives that will get the sniffles from covid.

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Again a projection. Show one thing that I've said that's an attempt or recommendation to control other's lives. Instead, I've said that we should all be personally considerate of others.

It's unbelievable that that is controversial.

Good lord take it to a new thread

Jabin said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Jabin said:

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Coates said:

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Living a normal life isn't selfish.

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Sure it can be - anytime one fails to take into account others, it's selfish.

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And that's how the left wants to use Covid to introduce more socialism.

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So being personally considerate is socialism now?

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Using false dichotomies like you just is a hallmark of socialism.

Somehow I'm selfish if I don't wear a mask in public, even though there is no scientific evidence that masks actually work. In fact, there's more evidence out there that they don't work at all.

Jabin said:

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Calling others selfish for not behaving the way you demand falls into the category of being an ass to each other by the way.

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I didn't call anyone selfish nor did I make any demands. Poor attempt at projection.

It's sad when people will not even voluntarily desire to be considerate of others and view complete self-interest as a virtue.

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I am being considerate of others. I am living my life normally.

Oh, and on the personal consideration piece, it's worth noting that the butterfly effect can be real. most folks didn't give our supply chain a second thought 2 years ago, and now we nod understandingly as a supply chain surcharge gets added to our bill/invoice. How many small business have been ruined by people making small changes to their lives? Business owners' lives matter. Their employees matter. The communities left without their services matter. People yelling at others to "just stay home" crushed tens of thousands of lives.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Oh, and on the personal consideration piece, it's worth noting that the butterfly effect can be real. most folks didn't give our supply chain a second thought 2 years ago, and now we nod understandingly as a supply chain surcharge gets added to our bill/invoice. How many small business have been ruined by people making small changes to their lives? Business owners' lives matter. Their employees matter. The communities left without their services matter. People yelling at others to "just stay home" crushed tens of thousands of lives.

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Over 800,000 Americans are dead. Thousands more could be dead with no interventions. There's no answer that results in no harm, but pretending supply chains matter more than lives is myopic.

Pretending it's a binary choice is what's myopic.

Lives matter. We killed people and ruined lives and were completely ineffective and stopping or really even slowing the virus.

Sapper Redux said:

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Nixter said:

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Pretending it's a binary choice is what's myopic.

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It's not binary. I never said it was. The question is which should be valued more during a pandemic: life or supply chains?

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Life and supply chains are one in the same.

Hth

Do you understand the variables and unknowns present during the initial wave?

Sapper Redux said:

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Do you understand the variables and unknowns present during the initial wave?

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Yea, they don't support your argument so you're disregarding.

Do.you understand nothing any country has done short of locking their citizens in their homes has worked?

You're wrong, thank everyone of us who has been living normal for nearly 2 years that we aren't in a worse situation now and move on. Have a nice life, done with your nonsense as well.

20% of common colds are coronaviruses. And this particular coronavirus seems to have a few features that are going to allow it to have even more staying power (wonder how that happened). Gonna be with us forever. Vaccination isn't preventing spread. Masking isn't preventing spread (at least not in the real world where those being worn are inadequate, unclean, aren't worn properly, and don't fit securely). Live your life guilt-free. When it comes to the vaccine, weigh your risk factors, your risk tolerance, and make the choice you feel is right for your situation; do not let strangers goad you into a decision in either direction. You own it. No one else.

Stay home when you are sick. Try to improve your health. Of course, these are things you should have been doing before

Get Off My Lawn said:

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There are clearly some posters here who very clearly live in a bubble. The vast majority of the world cannot work from home, enjoy touch-free delivery, and enjoy CNN-enduced moral superiority for their "cleanliness" and "virtue."

Viruses will tear through the population GLOBALLY and blaming people for making personal risk choices that you don't like is incredibly arrogant.

There used to be a "pull together" attitude in this country, but that was corrupted into an "us vs them" attitude by folks who misbelieve that it's possible to stop an airborne virus or that this virus is an existential threat worthy of any and all sacrifices.

With each variant (and especially Omicron), the failings of that selfish perspective become more apparent. To demand that others forego living a social or meaningful life - when they're neither sick nor at high risk - is in fact an extreme position.

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Sapper Redux said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Nixter said:

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Pretending it's a binary choice is what's myopic.

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It's not binary. I never said it was. The question is which should be valued more during a pandemic: life or supply chains?

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Life and supply chains are one in the same.

Hth

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No they aren't. Not in the way you seem to be suggesting.

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You've said you're in academia right?

Pretty easy to dismiss supply chain issues when you don't work in business that actually creates products.

The flow on effects affect people's lives and that wasn't modelled and that's why there's more to policy than "trust the science."

The unintended consequences were brought up by multiple people so you can't just handwave that away.