The vaccine does not stop the spread.

If you end up getting sick with covid, the vaccine will probably not prevent you spreading it to others. The vaccine does have some level of protection against getting sick in the first place, although that level of protection has declined with the variants. Your body has some baseline immune response, which can be supplemented with a vaccine to "add" some protection against both infection and severity.

PPE is probably less effective, in that you'd have to have the proper PPE and wear it correctly 100% of the time for it to create significant reduction in the likelihood of contracting covid. It may be ok in hospital settings where it is much more controlled, but for the general public the odds of proper adherence is near 0%.

It seems like most people have accepted that pretty much every person is going to be exposed to the omicron variant over the next few weeks or so. The vaccination push is to try and prevent severe cases from overwhelming hospitals, although data from South Africa and the UK is showing a much lower incidence of severe cases when compared to previous variants. It's unclear at this point whether that lower incidence is due to vaccine uptake, prior infection, milder disease, or some combination of those factors.

Thanks for the quick response

So if the vaccine does not stop the spread, why do some places and some companies mandate the vaccine? Just thinking logically here, not sure why I am required to get the vaccine to travel or go out in public. Maybe some states are preemptively requiring it due to hospital constraints. Maybe some companies have the same mindset

joerobert_pete06 said:

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Honest question: can I prevent spreading COVID to my family if I have the vaccine?

My understanding is that the vaccine will reduce my risk of hospitalization but if I am exposed, I can still contract.

If this is the case, why not only mandate PPE for public health instead of the vaccine.

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B/c everyone should get the vaccine that doesn't protect you from Omicron and doesn't stop you from spreading the virus. Even if you have already recovered from Covid and have natural immunity, please go get vaccinated b/c we don't want hospital beds to fill up even though they really aren't filling up.

And if you're not vaccinated, you're looking at a winter of severe illness and death for yourselves, your families, and the hospitals that you will soon overwhelm even though Omicron is far weaker and you probably won't even need a hospital visit. If you're vaccinated though, happy holidays! You have nothing to worry about. Spread good cheer and Omicron!

Many companies are being forced to comply with federal vaccination mandates, not necessarily a real choice for the company. Some of it could be virtue signaling or folding to social pressures.

It's largely become a political issue. I'm a proponent of vaccination and believe it has real, demonstrated benefit. I am staunchly against any kind of PPE or vaccine mandates in any form.

Look at the Aggie Football team as a prime example of how stupid this all is…

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Honest question: can I prevent spreading COVID to my family if I have the vaccine?

My understanding is that the vaccine will reduce my risk of hospitalization but if I am exposed, I can still contract.

If this is the case, why not only mandate PPE for public health instead of the vaccine.

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Yes. BUT if vaccinated and boosted, your chances of catching it, and therefore spreading it, are significantly reduced.

Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

FlyRod said:

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Quote:

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Honest question: can I prevent spreading COVID to my family if I have the vaccine?

My understanding is that the vaccine will reduce my risk of hospitalization but if I am exposed, I can still contract.

If this is the case, why not only mandate PPE for public health instead of the vaccine.

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Yes. BUT if vaccinated and boosted, your chances of catching it, and therefore spreading it, are significantly reduced.

Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

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How about let the enemy of freedom and personal choice be the enemy of the free, or supposedly free?

It is possible for the vaccine to be good and for mandates to be bad at the same time.. I cannot understand why people act like that isn't the case

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B/c everyone should get the vaccine that doesn't protect you from Omicron and doesn't stop you from spreading the virus. Even if you have already recovered from Covid and have natural immunity, please go get vaccinated b/c we don't want hospital beds to fill up even though they really aren't filling up.

And if you're not vaccinated, you're looking at a winter of severe illness and death for yourselves, your families, and the hospitals that you will soon overwhelm even though Omicron is far weaker and you probably won't even need a hospital visit. If you're vaccinated though, happy holidays! You have nothing to worry about. Spread good cheer and Omicron!

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Well said!

Kick-R said:

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It is possible for the vaccine to be good and for mandates to be bad at the same time.. I cannot understand why people act like that isn't the case

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How does this matter when those in power are creating mandates, trying to make everyone get this experimental vaccine? I will not get it, it is unproven and barely a year old. VAERS reports thousands have died after getting the vaccine. I know 2 people hospitalized from the vaccine. I don't want it.

If it's great and I'm wrong, let me live with the consequences. Don't threaten to take my job away and treat me like a leper because I choose not to inject this **** into my body.

The vaccines protects you from getting infected. If you aren't infected you can't spread it.

The protection against infection was 95% against the initial strain, 70% against delta, and maybe 40% against omicron. Boosters push those numbers up.

The good part is that if you do get infected you are protected against severe disease.

Exposed = got some in your nose

Infected = the virus is replicating in your cells

There's probably some fuzzy space there where it gets in a couple cells and is snuffed out before you make enough to spread.

amercer said:

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The vaccines protects you from getting infected. If you aren't infected you can't spread it.

The protection against infection was 95% against the initial strain, 70% against delta, and maybe 40% against omicron. Boosters push those numbers up.

The good part is that if you do get infected you are protected against severe disease.

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Yeah, I'm calling BS on the numbers regarding protection from infection. I've got 8 people on my team at work. Seven fully vaccinated and myself unvaccinated. Two of them had breakthrough cases before I ever caught the virus. All of us working with children coming in and out with Covid.

I wholeheartedly agree that getting vaccinated reduces your chances of serious disease. But there is no way people are 95 percent protected against initial strain and 70 percent protected from Delta from the amount of breakthrough cases I've seen.

Surely, you know these numbers are all flawed and rough estimates at best right?

snowdog90 said:

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Kick-R said:

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It is possible for the vaccine to be good and for mandates to be bad at the same time.. I cannot understand why people act like that isn't the case

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How does this matter when those in power are creating mandates, trying to make everyone get this experimental vaccine? I will not get it, it is unproven and barely a year old. VAERS reports thousands have died after getting the vaccine. I know 2 people hospitalized from the vaccine. I don't want it.

If it's great and I'm wrong, let me live with the consequences. Don't threaten to take my job away and treat me like a leper because I choose not to inject this **** into my body.

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So your response to my point about not being able to decouple vaccines from mandates.. is to rant about mandates and tie the vaccine to them. Guess I should have seen that one coming

Did you hear about delta? It was kind of a big story over the summer. Took out thousands upon thousands of unvaccinated Texans (and Floridians)

amercer said:

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Did you hear about delta? It was kind of a big story over the summer. Took out thousands upon thousands of unvaccinated Texans (and Floridians)

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No Californians or New Yorkians?

Kick-R said:

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It is possible for the vaccine to be good and for mandates to be bad at the same time.. I cannot understand why people act like that isn't the case

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Winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

joerobert_pete06 said:

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Thanks for the quick response

So if the vaccine does not stop the spread, why do some places and some companies mandate the vaccine? Just thinking logically here, not sure why I am required to get the vaccine to travel or go out in public. Maybe some states are preemptively requiring it due to hospital constraints. Maybe some companies have the same mindset

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The vaccines lessen the likelihood of you getting sick enough to be hospitalized or to die. Hospitals filled up with Covid patients for weeks on end (look up average hospital stay with Covid- it is long) makes for a dangerous situation in them not having capacity to treat heart attacks, strokes, lost limbs, cancer patients, etc.

Companies are requiring vaccines because they don't want a large number of employees being out of the office sick with Covid and not working. Or dead and not working. All about the bottom line with companies. I also suspect health insurance companies have started or will soon start putting pressure in companies with large numbers of unvaccinated employees.

We don't do anecdotes on this board, do we?

If we're doing anecdotes, I know three people in their 40s-early 50s who were in good health who died from Covid in the last year even though I've been told that people in that age range aren't at risk unless they are gordos. I know another who was hospitalized and on ECMO who did survive after three months in the hospital, but he does get to celebrate Christmas this year. Three of the four took Ivermectin. The fourth took HCQ. I've been told that those are medical miracle cures that are being hidden from us so I'm not sure what happened.

I know four people who currently have Covid. Two were vaccinated, not boosted.Two were unvaccinated.

I'm not actually sure that any of that means anything, but since we're sharing anecdotes as if they mean something, I thought I'd contribute.

amercer said:

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Did you hear about delta? It was kind of a big story over the summer. Took out thousands upon thousands of unvaccinated Texans (and Floridians)

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So the presumption is that those that succumbed to Delta were un-vacinnated? Israel had an even higher death rate for 2021 and they are one of the most vaxxed countries in the world.

• 2020 Deaths - 3,329
• 2021 Deaths - 4,898

I'm not arguing that vaccines are not beneficial, but my point of view is that they are not a panacea and in fact should be considered therapeutics as opposed to vaccines.

To argue that the virus would not be a problem if only those that didn't want to get the shot would just capitulate, is a stretch.

10% of the population made up 75% of the severe cases. Think about the math on that for a bit.

And then consider that the 10% were on average younger and healthier.

Kick-R said:

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It is possible for the vaccine to be good and for mandates to be bad at the same time.. I cannot understand why people act like that isn't the case

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Your first sentence is true. Mandates are BS. If the intention is to increase number of people getting vaccine, mandate is one of the worst ways to accomplish this.

A much better way to encourage the vaccine is the same way we encourage people to buy houses, have kids, etc - give them free money.

I don't think mandates are about increasing vaccination rate. I think it's the opposite (or at least that's the only way it makes sense to me). The folks that want the mandates want certain people to refuse vaccines. Mandates have the double "benefit" of destroying those people livelihoods AND leaving them more exposed to potential adverse and serious Covid infection. A great way to "punish" those that you disagree with. Disgusting IMO.

It may just be that the people pushing mandates are just dumb (same kind of dumb that thinks taxing the hell out of companies will be good for economy), but I can't help but wonder if maybe they are just evil.

FWIW I am vaxxed as are most of the people I associate with so I am hardly anti-vax, but mandates are bull*****

MaroonDontRun said:

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amercer said:

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/unvaxxed-10-of-israelis-are-73-of-serious-cases-65-of-deaths-1.10251639

Same story in Israel.

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So 35% of those that were vaxxed died in Israel. It sort of reinforces my point.

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Yeah, that is not how math works.

It honestly doesn't seem like vaccines stop the spread to any consequential effect.

I'm attempting not to be inflammatory with this post but the level of vitriol and snark in responses to these types of threads is really tiresome.

It's not a vaccine.

It's a freaking therapeutic.

It won't stop the spread.

It's not that freaking complicated. Get a shot. Or don't. Live your life and turn the damn TV off.