Scientists say Covid attacks fat tissues

5,192 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by fig96
Coates
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/health/covid-fat-obesity.html

From the start of the pandemic, the coronavirus seemed to target people carrying extra pounds. Patients who were overweight or obese were more likely to develop severe Covid-19 and more likely to die.

Though these patients often have health conditions like diabetes that compound their risk, scientists have become increasingly convinced that their vulnerability has something to do with obesity itself.

Now researchers have found that the coronavirus infects both fat cells and certain immune cells within body fat, prompting a damaging defensive response in the body.

"The bottom line is, 'Oh my god, indeed, the virus can infect fat cells directly,'" said Dr. Philipp Scherer, a scientist who studies fat cells at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, who was not involved in the research.

"Whatever happens in fat doesn't stay in fat," he added. "It affects the neighboring tissues as well."

The research has not yet been peer-reviewed or published in a scientific journal, but it was posted online in October. If the findings hold up, they may shed light not just on why patients with excess pounds are vulnerable to the virus, but also on why certain younger adults with no other risks become so ill.

The study's senior authors, Dr. Tracey McLaughlin and Dr. Catherine Blish of the Stanford University School of Medicine, suggested the evidence could point to new Covid treatments that target body fat.

"Maybe that's the Achilles' heel that the virus utilizes to evade our protective immune responses by hiding in this place," Dr. Vishwa Deep Dixit, a professor of comparative medicine and immunology at Yale School of Medicine, said.

The finding is particularly relevant to the United States, which has one of the highest rates of obesity in the world. Most American adults are overweight, and 42 percent have obesity. Black, Hispanic, Native American and Alaska Native people in the U.S. have higher obesity rates than white adults and Asian Americans; they have also been disproportionately affected by the pandemic, with death rates roughly double those of white Americans.

"This could well be contributing to severe disease," Dr. Blish said. "We're seeing the same inflammatory cytokines that I see in the blood of the really sick patients being produced in response to infection of those tissues."

Body fat used to be thought of as inert, a form of storage. But scientists now know that the tissue is biologically active, producing hormones and immune-system proteins that act on other cells, promoting a state of nagging low-grade inflammation even when there is no infection.

Inflammation is the body's response to an invader, and sometimes it can be so vigorous that it is more harmful than the infection that triggered it. "The more fat mass, and in particular visceral fat mass, the worse your inflammatory response," Dr. McLaughlin said, referring to the abdominal fat that surrounds internal organs.
YouBet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Been saying this since the beginning.

Losing weight is the best thing you can do to combat covid along with every other affliction known to man.
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
YouBet said:

Been saying this since the beginning.

Losing weight is the best thing you can do to combat covid along with every other affliction known to man.
Very, very true.

But so very hard to do for us old fat guys. As we age, our metabolism slows and then slows even more as we reduce calories. Plus, there are a lifetime of bad habits to overcome. And, finally, one has to psychologically overcome the fact of repeated failures at losing weight. There's a tendency to give up, but COVID has shown that weight isn't just another health issue - it can be fatal.

Not making excuses, just pointing out that it's incredibly hard. It's perhaps the most difficult challenge I've faced in my life.

And the lesson is for you young guys is that you need to be OCD about weight. Don't make excuses as you start to put on the pounds in your middle years. The guys I know who have stayed skinny get anal when they put on only 1-5 lbs. I think that's one of the secrets: don't let your weight get away from you. What starts off as "only" 1-5 lbs then becomes "only" 10-20 lbs and the excuses keep on trucking as the weight keeps on piling on. It's a hell of a lot easier to lose 1-5 lbs than it is to lose 50-100 lbs.
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I am thinking about starting a podcast about how guys over 50 can get more healthy.

And notice I didn't say "lose weight" - I said get healthy. It's my belief the key should be to get healthy and the weight takes care of itself.

I've lost close to a hundred pounds and didn't really try to lose weight. I did make some very drastic changes to the way I ate - which is the key over 50. You cannot outrun your fork. But I also got a lot more active as well.

I encourage all older guys not to give up. Start by getting hooked up with a good nutritionist. Then convince your wife to support your choices. If your wife nags you as much as mine did, you might think that's easy - until she realizes this will affect her eating as well.



B-1 83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Well……..the next thing they'll come out with is that masks do you no real good walking around HEB or Home Depot.

Amazing that the medical community refuses to come out with these facts and push them.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Are those pics of you or other guys? That's really encouraging to see that older guys can do it.

And is a nutritionist the same as a dietitian?

How does one go about finding a "good" one and telling ones that are good from ones that aren't so good?
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Jabin said:

Are those pics of you or other guys? That's really encouraging to see that older guys can do it.

And is a nutritionist the same as a dietitian?

How does one go about finding a "good" one and telling ones that are good from ones that aren't so good?

No sir - those are both me.

A dietician is a licensed nutritionist, so they do the same stuff. I found mine through Camp Gladiator, which I started in 2017.

Mine had me do two weeks of using MyFitnessPal to track everything that passed my lips. She then analyzed how I ate.

We all have lots of things to fix and are tempted to attack all at once. But she had me fix one thing at a time. The first was cutting out sugar. It's the single most destructive thing we eat. After sugar ea under control, I moved onto step b, then step c.
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That's really incredible. Kudos to you, and that's not praising you nearly enough.

How long have you kept the weight off? What is your plan going forward to keep it off?
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Jabin said:

That's really incredible. Kudos to you, and that's not praising you nearly enough.

How long have you kept the weight off? What is your plan going forward to keep it off?

All good questions. Weight off for about 3 years. I've had 10 lb creep back on over the last year that I'm working to get off now. As you said above, being diligent with small weight gains is important. Got lazy with my eating.

I have to accept that I will never be able to eat like I did in my 20s. I have a tool box of things I do, including portion control, avoiding processed sugar, avoiding most processed foods completely, making sure carbs are "good" carbs, IM and others that I strive to utilize. And I do workout every single day.

Thankfully, no joint problems so I got that going for me.
TXTransplant
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I've lost about 10 lbs just this year and nearly 30 over the last 8-ish years.

The biggest thing that's changed for me this year is the understanding that I have to eat more protein. I've changed my diet substantially, and about 40-50 percent of my calories are protein-based. I focus on low-fat protein (mostly turkey, chicken, and dairy).

If you have a calorie target (that should be based on your BMR and activity levels) and you target 40-50% protein, you don't have to avoid any specific foods - you simply won't be able to meet those targets if you eat crap. There simply isn't room for high fat and high carb foods, at least not on a daily basis.

I am not doing keto. Eating that little carbs doesn't support my longer term goals (which is to build muscle), and if you are a woman (I am), it can cause other issues. I also need some carbs for energy. I also don't intermittent fast because I can't meet my protein goals if I do that.

As far as a good nutritionist goes, I've become highly skeptical of anyone who pushes supplements, tries to tell you that certain foods are "bad" (or "inflammatory" or any other negative adjective), or who pushes any sort of "genetic" testing.

The biggest goal is understanding your BMR and setting a reasonable calorie target and tracking everything you eat to make sure you meet it most days.

If you don't exercise, start moving every day - even if it's just a 20 minute walk.

Also, cutting way back on alcohol (I've abstained for most of the year) is a huge factor. We drink way too many of our calories, and the older I get (I'm 43), the more it wreaks havoc on my body.

I can honestly say, though at 43, I'm in the best shape of my life. And it all started with this dietary change.
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I agree with all that. I think keto has it's place, especially for the very obese or diabetic.

I take no supplements at all. Agree totally on the alcohol as well. That's been another problem for me over the last year - I really like craft beers too much.
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What do you to "be active"? And how did you counteract the negative reinforcement cycle of weight, age and decreasing activity?

I walk ~2.5 miles/day but it does nothing for weight reduction. It's still a good thing to do for overall health, but I need to find something else, that I am capable of doing, to fill the stay active requirement.
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
As I said above, I do Camp Gladiator. It's kinda like PE for adults with a lot more cussing. You also are accountable to the other campers and them to you, so you build a community.

The key is to find something you enjoy that you'll stick with.

I try not to be too much of a CG salesman on here, but if interested, I have a code for a free 4 week camp starting January 3. Email me at my username at yahoo.com if interested.
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hard to say if I'm interested in CG since I know nothing about it. I do not live in Texas, though, so if location is important that may nix it from the outset.
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
https://campgladiator.com/locations
Windy City Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

Well……..the next thing they'll come out with is that masks do you no real good walking around HEB or Home Depot.

Amazing that the medical community refuses to come out with these facts and push them.
It is really not as simple as you are framing it here. I think almost any physician or researcher will readily admit obesity results in inflammatory processes that have all sorts of negative outcomes both over longer time periods and when the body fights off severe illness.

This story here is not that obesity degrades your system and makes it less able to fight off illness. It is saying that COVID infects fat cells directly and the immune system response to that is what is killing people. It is a totally separate process from what you are trying to state.

Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I live in rural PA. Nothing close. How do you stay active after the camp?
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
A new camp starts every 5 weeks. You just keep going.
WesMaroon&White
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/nurses-before-and-after-covid-19-photos-show-effects-of-weeks-on-ventilator/507-31394766-bbf4-432e-83fb-7101991e5115

Except for the nurse in the article Or a heavy equipment operator's 43 year old wife that I work with.

Generally, the article is correct in that the obese have a worse outcome with COVID, but I don't think it is that simple to say, if you lose weight you will be safe.
YouBet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
WesMaroon&White said:

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/nurses-before-and-after-covid-19-photos-show-effects-of-weeks-on-ventilator/507-31394766-bbf4-432e-83fb-7101991e5115

Except for the nurse in the article Or a heavy equipment operator's 43 year old wife that I work with.

Generally, the article is correct in that the obese have a worse outcome with COVID, but I don't think it is that simple to say, if you lose weight you will be safe.
Massively reduces your chances by not being obese.

Quote:

About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese - CDC
Coates
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Did you even read it?

Good on the folks above for getting healthy, legitimately one of the toughest things to do after years of neglect. I've found just moving around and keeping busy is the easiest thing as you get older.

I used to smoke, and had to replace smoking with vaping to finally quit, then replace vaping with food, then food with being ocd about keeping my car clean. It's always something, but at least I'm healthy, not smoking, and have an immaculate car!
P.U.T.U
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Not rocket science, people with more body fat have higher inflammatory markers so when you get Covid and are overweight you have a higher chance of the inflammatory storm.

Since 70% of Americans are overfat it would have been more helpful for the government to tell people to put down the fork than get the jab. And it would have saved way more lives in the long run with things like heart disease and cancer
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

Since 70% of Americans are overfat it would have been more helpful for the government to tell people to put down the fork than get the jab.
Why not both?

In fact, it takes a long time to lose weight so us fats needed the jab in the meantime.
scrimp
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Of course, the first thing the government did in early 2020 was shut down all gyms and restaurants except for the drive thru fast food options....
TarponChaser
How long do you want to ignore this user?
WesMaroon&White said:

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/nurses-before-and-after-covid-19-photos-show-effects-of-weeks-on-ventilator/507-31394766-bbf4-432e-83fb-7101991e5115

Except for the nurse in the article Or a heavy equipment operator's 43 year old wife that I work with.

Generally, the article is correct in that the obese have a worse outcome with COVID, but I don't think it is that simple to say, if you lose weight you will be safe.

I'm calling BS that the nurse didn't have some issues. Not specifically fitness. But a gay dude who spends several days partying at a festival is about 99% certain to be engaging in risky behaviors that impair the immune system. Additionally, this was extremely early on (March 2020) so the treatments weren't as refined. They were almost immediately putting people on vents when we know now that's not usually the best course of treatment.

And even then, there are always outliers to the statistics. The plural of anecdote is not data.
planoaggie123
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Jabin said:

Quote:

Since 70% of Americans are overfat it would have been more helpful for the government to tell people to put down the fork than get the jab.
Why not both?

In fact, it takes a long time to lose weight so us fats needed the jab in the meantime.

We have had nearly 2 years of this pandemic and honestly it was pretty early on that there was clear indication that this virus was killing off overweight / obese / morbidly obese at MUCH higher rates. Let's call it 18 months of such knowledge....
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
planoaggie123 said:

Jabin said:

Quote:

Since 70% of Americans are overfat it would have been more helpful for the government to tell people to put down the fork than get the jab.
Why not both?

In fact, it takes a long time to lose weight so us fats needed the jab in the meantime.

We have had nearly 2 years of this pandemic and honestly it was pretty early on that there was clear indication that this virus was killing off overweight / obese / morbidly obese at MUCH higher rates. Let's call it 18 months of such knowledge....
Well, not that long between certainty of that knowledge and availability of the vaccines. And I've followed this stuff pretty closely and for a long time it was not clear if it was the fat itself that was the problem or the ailments that are frequently associated with fat, such as diabetes.

And how long do you think it takes to lose 50 lbs, 100 lbs., or 200 lbs? You seem to think that it's an easy and automatic process. And are you allowing any margin for failed efforts?

I'm not advocating for vaccine mandates, but folks like you seem to have a visceral hatred of the vaccines in general. Why is that? Why are you opposed to the idea of the government encouraging people both to lose weight and to be vaccinated if they are overweight?
planoaggie123
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Lets get one thing straight....I don't hate the vaccine. I encouraged my parents to get it (over 65). I also made the calls to get my father-in-law the vaccine (over 65 + rather large man...played football at UT) and we had talks about him getting a booster over Thanksgiving.

Another thing....I did not say you are advocating for vaccine mandates.

Finally....i am fully in support of the government encouraging (not mandating) weight loss (for all) and vaccines (to those who want and those that are at most risk). HOWEVER....

I have not heard even close to a 50/50 message of 1) get healthy and 2) get vaccine.

It has been just GET VACCINE with maybe, at best, light whispers of eat some veggies and walk around the block.


Edit: Your comment between certainty of that knowledge and availability of vaccine I do not get....we have largely known since Italy and a few other countries got hit hard that older, overweight, smokers were at pretty high risk / high percentage of deaths. Does not matter when the vaccine came out....


Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The tone of your posts, to me at least, seems to be anti-vaccine. You did not seem to agree with my post that the government should have done both - push weight loss and encourage fats to get vaccinated. In your previous posts, you seem to keep pushing weight loss as the only alternative.

And to your Edit:

Quote:

we have largely known since Italy and a few other countries got hit hard that older, overweight, smokers were at pretty high risk / high percentage of deaths. Does not matter when the vaccine came out....

Well, you were the one who first raised the date of when the vaccine came out as a point.

And you said it was 18 months, when actually it was no more than 10.

And we did not "know" since Italy. Yes, the data strongly suggested that weight was probably a major factor, but there was not enough data in early 2020 to "know" anything.

I'll use myself as an example. I'm overweight but, so far at least, free of most of the major problems associated with excessive weight. My blood pressure is fine, my blood sugar levels are fine, and my cholesterol is fine. And I walk a fast 2.5 miles/day. I've been overweight for decades, but that hasn't prevented me from doing anything I've wanted to do, including strenuous physical activities like hunting in high mountain environments. I've deluded myself that my genes are "better" so that, unlike most folks, I can carry a "little" extra weight.

However, over time with Covid, the data has shown that any extra weight is dangerous. It takes time for the data to firm up and support hard conclusions. But it also takes time for people to get honest with themselves and to change their self-image to what's real.

To say or imply that all overweight people should have immediately started on a crash diet program in early 2000 is simply ridiculous. It's ridiculous because it overstates the certainty of our knowledge at that time and it completely ignores the reality of human nature and how hard it is to lose weight.
planoaggie123
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I did not mean for my tone to be that way so I do apologize for that....however....i do get frustrated that our government seems to only be pushing one thing, vaccine. They should be shouting from the mountain tops to improve health, however, they have not yet done so.

As far as your health situation, you seem to be doing fine and I do not believe that everyone should be skinny and know there are healthy "large BMI" people. I was "overweight" from about 16 until the past year. I lost 25 pounds but I still have a little tire around the waist. I can do better and keep trying as you are doing as well.

My biggest issue is we have a good chunk of our society....over 20% probably...that are absolute slobs. They play games amd watch tv and eat fast food constantly. They have been told they just need to get a vaccine to be safe. They have not been told on a consistent basis through this pandemic that their lifestyle is a big part of surviving COVID as well.

Edit: I think we are largely in agreement. I do not believe weight loss is easy, but do think within 12 months one can make meaningful strides. I think our officials should currently be strongly encouraging a better lifestyle (NOT THE FOOD PYRAMID) not only for COVID but for the overall improvement and ease of burden on our healthcare system..
Jabin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Completely agree.

Part of my frustration in losing weight is with our medical system that constantly tells me to lose weight but gives me no guidance or advice on how to do so. Yet that same system is great at giving overweight people lots and lots of pills, medications and surgeries to deal with the complications of being overweight.

For example, at my last physical, my doc once again beat me up for being overweight. I replied that I completely agreed and asked him what the best strategy is for losing weight. He simply shrugged his shoulders and said that if he knew that, he'd be on Oprah and worth a billion dollars. Yet he's not only quick to prescribe but also constantly pushing meds for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, and surgeries to remedy some of the ill effects of being overweight.

That really pissed me off. Don't tell me I have a problem unless you have a proposed solution to accompany it. And simply telling me to "lose weight" isn't a solution. It's simply restating the problem.

So the problem you describe that we're experiencing with Covid isn't unique; it's simply a continuation of what our medical system has been doing for decades.
planoaggie123
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
100%.

And sure...there is no one-size fits all to weight loss. Everyone is different.

Maybe health plans could / should increase access to trained and specialized nutritionist. Have payments go towards deductible, etc.

They really are not trying....



edit: we used a nutritionist....it cost over $1,000 for a plan (included consultations, etc). It worked and now we have it for "life". But it was EXPENSIVE.
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Try buying the book The Obesity Code and following that program. That's the eating program I try to follow. He gives specific, concrete direction.

For anyone starting out on good nutrition, his plan is a great starting point.

Also agree docs are way too quick to just give meds. It's quicker and easier and what most of their patients want.
Proposition Joe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think in all of this one thing everyone can agree on is that our society needs to find some way to incentivize healthy behavior more.

$100 off your insurance bill if you do "500 steps" (or whatever ridiculous program is it) doesn't make much of an impact.
Capitol Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Jabin said:

YouBet said:

Been saying this since the beginning.

Losing weight is the best thing you can do to combat covid along with every other affliction known to man.
Very, very true.

But so very hard to do for us old fat guys. As we age, our metabolism slows and then slows even more as we reduce calories. Plus, there are a lifetime of bad habits to overcome. And, finally, one has to psychologically overcome the fact of repeated failures at losing weight. There's a tendency to give up, but COVID has shown that weight isn't just another health issue - it can be fatal.

Not making excuses, just pointing out that it's incredibly hard. It's perhaps the most difficult challenge I've faced in my life.

And the lesson is for you young guys is that you need to be OCD about weight. Don't make excuses as you start to put on the pounds in your middle years. The guys I know who have stayed skinny get anal when they put on only 1-5 lbs. I think that's one of the secrets: don't let your weight get away from you. What starts off as "only" 1-5 lbs then becomes "only" 10-20 lbs and the excuses keep on trucking as the weight keeps on piling on. It's a hell of a lot easier to lose 1-5 lbs than it is to lose 50-100 lbs.
Depends on what the "weight" is. BF% is a much better way to think about it and the more one can flip the field on fat to muscle, the much better off one is.

Jabin, how old are you if I can ask? All is not lost even if you are "older". It's hard to lose weight, especially given the body naturally tries to keep its fat stores for survival. Ancient man just didn't have the opportunity to become overweight or obese so we didn't evolve well to lose BF easily in many cases. But you truly can. It ain't fun but you can get there. Eat clean and lift weights. Cardio honestly doesn't do much for men and BF loss given the type of fat testosterone causes men to accumulate. Focus on strength building or hypertrophy and less on traditional cardio and eat with discipline and function as the main focus. Be ok when you fall off the nutrition wagon and just keep on truck'n. You'll get there.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.