Lol ya that's what antivaxxers do. They try to pigeonhole people who don't think like them as "clinically insane". Thank god the majority of America doesn't think like you.

gunan01 said:

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Lol I wish staff would take the anti-vaxxer trash out. You should go back to Forum 16.

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I sense your frustration as many around you have stopped accepting every premise. I'm enjoying this.

Nah you're just trying to get out of answering….because you don't really have a clue.

Long term effects aren't really a concern for these vaccines based on the mechanism of how they work. If you are worried that these vaccines will cause cancer, diabetes, or whatever else you listed, provide the mechanism of how that'll happen. Be specific.

gunan01 said:

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Lol ya that's what antivaxxers do. They try to pigeonhole people who don't think like them as "clinically insane". Thank god the majority of America doesn't think like you.

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Keep using that word. Like every other label you're trained to use, it's losing its meaning. You'll soon have nothing left but your anger.

OP - thanks for posting. Getting my kid vaccinated this month

gunan01 said:

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Nah you're just trying to get out of answering….because you don't really have a clue.

Long term effects aren't really a concern for these vaccines based on the mechanism of how they work. If you are worried that these vaccines will cause cancer, diabetes, or whatever else you listed, provide the mechanism of how that'll happen. Be specific.

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Good grief. I don't know the mechanism of how that would happen and never claimed too. I'm not fully understanding this gotcha moment you think you are having. It's not my job to provide the mechanism for how that happens. What you meant to say was that long term effects aren't a concern to you. They are a concern to me and I will continue to wait for the studies. Someone telling me not to worry about long term complications because they just can't happen isn't going to cut it.

You getting pissed I didn't answer a question you didn't ask is comical though.

A reminder; we're all getting the real Covid at some point. All that vaccinating does is give you a temporary immunity and render future encounter(s) non-novel.

Nobody is "preventing" their kid from getting Covid with a vaccine that was designed for the zero strain. They may kick the can down the road and perhaps achieve some noticable positive benefit when infection does occur... but the risks are so small both ways that we've got no real measurements on immediate cost:benefit to getting the shot and certainly nothing approaching a 30yr cost:benefit.

01agtx said:

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gunan01 said:

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Nah you're just trying to get out of answering….because you don't really have a clue.

Long term effects aren't really a concern for these vaccines based on the mechanism of how they work. If you are worried that these vaccines will cause cancer, diabetes, or whatever else you listed, provide the mechanism of how that'll happen. Be specific.

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Good grief. I don't know the mechanism of how that would happen and never claimed too. I'm not fully understanding this gotcha moment you think you are having. It's not my job to provide the mechanism for how that happens. What you meant to say was that long term effects aren't a concern to you. They are a concern to me and I will continue to wait for the studies. Someone telling me not to worry about long term complications because they just can't happen isn't going to cut it.

You getting pissed I didn't answer a question you didn't ask is comical though.

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There is far more evidence that a viruses can cause long term unknown health consequences than vaccines. That is a fact as there are many viruses across the entire spectrum that cause negative health outcomes, weeks, months, years, and even decades later. COVID hasn't been around for a decade so what's to say people who caught COVID don't have issues in 10 years?

The vaccines could cause autism infertility cancer 10 years from now is not backed by any history of any vaccine or the science and mechanism of how these vaccines work. Your point is an anti-vaxxer talking point that you've just repurposed to pretend is simply anti-"this vaccine". However, it's roots are the fundamental core of the anti-vaxxer movement... whether you try to own that or not.

I don't think vaccines should mandated for children. I see very few people anywhere actually arguing that should be the case - just a lot of hand wringing for populist political capital. I do think that trying to fear monger people away from the vaccines is a few steps too far. The safety of the vaccines is public information with plenty of discussion from the FDA - **** there's a 7+ hour long video of the meeting on youtube breaking down all the safety data collected, all the concerns of the FDA members, trial endpoints and details etc. I think it's irresponsible to have an entrenched viewpoint without looking at the data holistically and without a political agenda.

At the end of the day, the thing that disgusts me about all of this is that I believe in the American process. This isn't ****ing Russia or China where the trial data wasn't made public... And yet we still have people actively pulling against our national interests (the vaccine). We still have people actively trying to undermine all the institutions that make America work. That's the real shame in all of this. These vaccines are still the medical equivalent of landing on the ****ing moon and we have people all around actively trying to convince people it's all a lie because a Democrat was president in 1969. I don't give a **** who is/was president America landed on the moon.

Quote:

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I don't think vaccines should mandated for children. I see very few people anywhere actually arguing that should be the case - just a lot of hand wringing for populist political capital.

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Both the current president and vice president promised less than a year ago that we wouldn't have any vaccine mandates, but that lie was codified last week. Also, some school districts have already promised to add it as a retirement. You may find some of us disinclined to trust and engage with you in this rationalization.

Thank you. From a nurse who cares for long term covid issues, thank you. I do not have experience caring for long term vaccine issues. I know they must exist, but long covid has tended to be a much bigger issue.

I'm so glad your kiddos were vaccinated and glad they're doing well.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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A reminder; we're all getting the real Covid at some point. All that vaccinating does is give you a temporary immunity and render future encounter(s) non-novel.

Nobody is "preventing" their kid from getting Covid with a vaccine that was designed for the zero strain. They may kick the can down the road and perhaps achieve some noticable positive benefit when infection does occur... but the risks are so small both ways that we've got no real measurements on immediate cost:benefit to getting the shot and certainly nothing approaching a 30yr cost:benefit.

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Quit being reasonable. You have to either be 100% confident that the vaccine is gonna harm kids and any parent that gets their kids vaccinated needs parental rights terminated OR you have to be absolutely sure that getting kids vaccinated is necessary and anyone that doesn't do that wants their kids and others to die. Pick a side and start calling people on the other side names on the internet.

Quote:

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Good grief. I don't know the mechanism of how that would happen and never claimed too. I'm not fully understanding this gotcha moment you think you are having.

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These are not gotcha moments.

I understand the underlying process for T1D very well, and it is a bit discouraging to see people say "don't get vaccinated as you might get insulin dependent diabetes."

It displays an ignorance of autoimmune disorders in general and T1D specifically. Autoimmune disorders are latent, genetic, ticking time bombs that ignited by bad viral encounters. While the research is not yet totally conclusive, COVID is believed to be a very effective trigger for autoimmune disorders. Speculating that you would get T1D solely due to taking the COVID vaccine is silly.

Gordo14 said:

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01agtx said:

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gunan01 said:

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Nah you're just trying to get out of answering….because you don't really have a clue.

Long term effects aren't really a concern for these vaccines based on the mechanism of how they work. If you are worried that these vaccines will cause cancer, diabetes, or whatever else you listed, provide the mechanism of how that'll happen. Be specific.

---

Good grief. I don't know the mechanism of how that would happen and never claimed too. I'm not fully understanding this gotcha moment you think you are having. It's not my job to provide the mechanism for how that happens. What you meant to say was that long term effects aren't a concern to you. They are a concern to me and I will continue to wait for the studies. Someone telling me not to worry about long term complications because they just can't happen isn't going to cut it.

You getting pissed I didn't answer a question you didn't ask is comical though.

---

There is far more evidence that a viruses can cause long term unknown health consequences than vaccines. That is a fact as there are many viruses across the entire spectrum that cause negative health outcomes, weeks, months, years, and even decades later. COVID hasn't been around for a decade so what's to say people who caught COVID don't have issues in 10 years?

The vaccines could cause autism infertility cancer 10 years from now is not backed by any history of any vaccine or the science and mechanism of how these vaccines work. Your point is an anti-vaxxer talking point that you've just repurposed to pretend is simply anti-"this vaccine". However, it's roots are the fundamental core of the anti-vaxxer movement... whether you try to own that or not.

I don't think vaccines should mandated for children. I see very few people anywhere actually arguing that should be the case - just a lot of hand wringing for populist political capital. I do think that trying to fear monger people away from the vaccines is a few steps too far. The safety of the vaccines is public information with plenty of discussion from the FDA - **** there's a 7+ hour long video of the meeting on youtube breaking down all the safety data collected, all the concerns of the FDA members, trial endpoints and details etc. I think it's irresponsible to have an entrenched viewpoint without looking at the data holistically and without a political agenda.

At the end of the day, the thing that disgusts me about all of this is that I believe in the American process. This isn't ****ing Russia or China where the trial data wasn't made public... And yet we still have people actively pulling against our national interests (the vaccine). We still have people actively trying to undermine all the institutions that make America work. That's the real shame in all of this. These vaccines are still the medical equivalent of landing on the ****ing moon and we have people all around actively trying to convince people it's all a lie because a Democrat was president in 1969. I don't give a **** who is/was president America landed on the moon.

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Should they be mandated for adults? What about for illegal adults? Or adults that work for companies with 99 employees or less?

You honestly think our leaders have been honest through the whole process? No information has been hidden or manipulated?

No one is trying to undermine the institutions that make America work, other than those calling for vaccine mandates. And if you think the clowns in DC are what make America work, then there really is no point in having a discussion.

My 11 year old tested positive for Covid two Wednesdays ago. She back at school tomorrow after a 2 week vacation and zero symptoms.

I have 6 kids. I know a lot more kids than 99% of you. I probably know even more kids than most pediatricians.

My 11 year old got it at Pine Covid and was sick for 2 days. Not a big deal.

Several of her friends got it - also no big deal.

3 of her other friends also got it.

- One was very sick with flu-like symptoms for a week, high fever, then recovered.
- One was sick like that, but the fever didn't break. After a week she went to the ER, wasn't admitted, but did put a scare in her parents before the fever finally broke.
- The 3rd one recovered quickly from Covid, but a few weeks later developed severe abdominal pain, was diagnosed with acute appendicitis, but later confirmed as a case of MIS-C. He was admitted to TCH where they had a ward full of them, and he has recovered. Scared the heck out of everyone, and many people were praying for him.
ALL 3 OF THE ABOVE WERE ATHLETES (SWIMMING, CROSS-COUNTRY, SOCCER...), NO UNDERLYING CONDITIONS

On my daughter's cross country teammates (just finished 7th in the state in 6A), who was one of their up-and-coming runners, as well as her elite varsity XC brother, both got Covid. They recovered after a week, but they've been unable to get back to their running form...even after several months. Covid basically cost them a season. This was like 3 months ago - the flu doesn't do this, y'all. 15 - 16 years old, obviously in elite athletic condition. It remains to be seen if they will ever regain their top running form.

redcrayon said:

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94chem said:

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On my daughter's cross country teammates (just finished 7th in the state in 6A), who was one of their up-and-coming runners, as well as her elite varsity XC brother, both got Covid. They recovered after a week, but they've been unable to get back to their running form...even after several months. Covid basically cost them a season. This was like 3 months ago - the flu doesn't do this, y'all. 15 - 16 years old, obviously in elite athletic condition. It remains to be seen if they will ever regain their top running form.

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Other viral infections can definitely cause long-term problems. Flu, strep, EBV. You're just more aware of it with COVID.

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So, um, yeah. Okay.

94chem said:

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I have 6 kids. I know a lot more kids than 99% of you. I probably know even more kids than most pediatricians.

My 11 year old got it at Pine Covid and was sick for 2 days. Not a big deal.

Several of her friends got it - also no big deal.

3 of her other friends also got it.

- One was very sick with flu-like symptoms for a week, high fever, then recovered.
- One was sick like that, but the fever didn't break. After a week she went to the ER, wasn't admitted, but did put a scare in her parents before the fever finally broke.
- The 3rd one recovered quickly from Covid, but a few weeks later developed severe abdominal pain, was diagnosed with acute appendicitis, but later confirmed as a case of MIS-C. He was admitted to TCH where they had a ward full of them, and he has recovered. Scared the heck out of everyone, and many people were praying for him.
ALL 3 OF THE ABOVE WERE ATHLETES (SWIMMING, CROSS-COUNTRY, SOCCER...), NO UNDERLYING CONDITIONS

On my daughter's cross country teammates (just finished 7th in the state in 6A), who was one of their up-and-coming runners, as well as her elite varsity XC brother, both got Covid. They recovered after a week, but they've been unable to get back to their running form...even after several months. Covid basically cost them a season. This was like 3 months ago - the flu doesn't do this, y'all. 15 - 16 years old, obviously in elite athletic condition. It remains to be seen if they will ever regain their top running form.

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Wow, impressive! Maybe the oddest "brag" (I guess) I've ever seen.

94chem said:

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Bassmaster said:

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94chem said:

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I have 6 kids. I know a lot more kids than 99% of you. I probably know even more kids than most pediatricians.

My 11 year old got it at Pine Covid and was sick for 2 days. Not a big deal.

Several of her friends got it - also no big deal.

3 of her other friends also got it.

- One was very sick with flu-like symptoms for a week, high fever, then recovered.
- One was sick like that, but the fever didn't break. After a week she went to the ER, wasn't admitted, but did put a scare in her parents before the fever finally broke.
- The 3rd one recovered quickly from Covid, but a few weeks later developed severe abdominal pain, was diagnosed with acute appendicitis, but later confirmed as a case of MIS-C. He was admitted to TCH where they had a ward full of them, and he has recovered. Scared the heck out of everyone, and many people were praying for him.
ALL 3 OF THE ABOVE WERE ATHLETES (SWIMMING, CROSS-COUNTRY, SOCCER...), NO UNDERLYING CONDITIONS

On my daughter's cross country teammates (just finished 7th in the state in 6A), who was one of their up-and-coming runners, as well as her elite varsity XC brother, both got Covid. They recovered after a week, but they've been unable to get back to their running form...even after several months. Covid basically cost them a season. This was like 3 months ago - the flu doesn't do this, y'all. 15 - 16 years old, obviously in elite athletic condition. It remains to be seen if they will ever regain their top running form.

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Wow, impressive! Maybe the oddest "brag" (I guess) I've ever seen.

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Hey, I can back it up.

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My experience seeing kids (and I have seen plenty as a teacher) is that Covid is far easier on kids than the flu. None of the kids that we've had out are having any real symptoms of concern.

redcrayon said:

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94chem said:

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redcrayon said:

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94chem said:

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On my daughter's cross country teammates (just finished 7th in the state in 6A), who was one of their up-and-coming runners, as well as her elite varsity XC brother, both got Covid. They recovered after a week, but they've been unable to get back to their running form...even after several months. Covid basically cost them a season. This was like 3 months ago - the flu doesn't do this, y'all. 15 - 16 years old, obviously in elite athletic condition. It remains to be seen if they will ever regain their top running form.

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Other viral infections can definitely cause long-term problems. Flu, strep, EBV. You're just more aware of it with COVID.

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So, um, yeah. Okay.

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I mean, you don't have to believe it but it's true. Google Kawasaki Disease, PANDAS, etc. I know it's uncomfortable to admit but life is not without risk for our kids.

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Wow, I never knew that. It really makes me think. About children. And the future.

94chem said:

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I have 6 kids. I know a lot more kids than 99% of you. I probably know even more kids than most pediatricians.

My 11 year old got it at Pine Covid and was sick for 2 days. Not a big deal.

Several of her friends got it - also no big deal.

3 of her other friends also got it.

- One was very sick with flu-like symptoms for a week, high fever, then recovered.
- One was sick like that, but the fever didn't break. After a week she went to the ER, wasn't admitted, but did put a scare in her parents before the fever finally broke.
- The 3rd one recovered quickly from Covid, but a few weeks later developed severe abdominal pain, was diagnosed with acute appendicitis, but later confirmed as a case of MIS-C. He was admitted to TCH where they had a ward full of them, and he has recovered. Scared the heck out of everyone, and many people were praying for him.
ALL 3 OF THE ABOVE WERE ATHLETES (SWIMMING, CROSS-COUNTRY, SOCCER...), NO UNDERLYING CONDITIONS

On my daughter's cross country teammates (just finished 7th in the state in 6A), who was one of their up-and-coming runners, as well as her elite varsity XC brother, both got Covid. They recovered after a week, but they've been unable to get back to their running form...even after several months. Covid basically cost them a season. This was like 3 months ago - the flu doesn't do this, y'all. 15 - 16 years old, obviously in elite athletic condition. It remains to be seen if they will ever regain their top running form.

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I'll assume by (edit: several not few) that you mean three. So, you're describing outcomes for 8 kids in your circle.

25% were hospitalized, 12.5% have long Covid, and the rest are fine.

Either,

-Science has failed us because your example isn't in the same universe as the data. Society as we know it will end because 1 in 4 kids with Covid are being hospitalized and 37.5% are either hospitalized or have long Covid.

-or, more obviously, you've experienced a wild statistical anomaly in your circle and using it as a pro child vax anecdote online.

The key word in the entire post is "fear". It's driving everything and I totally get it, but that doesn't mean facts should be ignored. I don't think anyone is saying bad things can't happen.

Sandman98 said:

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94chem said:

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I have 6 kids. I know a lot more kids than 99% of you. I probably know even more kids than most pediatricians.

My 11 year old got it at Pine Covid and was sick for 2 days. Not a big deal.

Several of her friends got it - also no big deal.

3 of her other friends also got it.

- One was very sick with flu-like symptoms for a week, high fever, then recovered.
- One was sick like that, but the fever didn't break. After a week she went to the ER, wasn't admitted, but did put a scare in her parents before the fever finally broke.
- The 3rd one recovered quickly from Covid, but a few weeks later developed severe abdominal pain, was diagnosed with acute appendicitis, but later confirmed as a case of MIS-C. He was admitted to TCH where they had a ward full of them, and he has recovered. Scared the heck out of everyone, and many people were praying for him.
ALL 3 OF THE ABOVE WERE ATHLETES (SWIMMING, CROSS-COUNTRY, SOCCER...), NO UNDERLYING CONDITIONS

On my daughter's cross country teammates (just finished 7th in the state in 6A), who was one of their up-and-coming runners, as well as her elite varsity XC brother, both got Covid. They recovered after a week, but they've been unable to get back to their running form...even after several months. Covid basically cost them a season. This was like 3 months ago - the flu doesn't do this, y'all. 15 - 16 years old, obviously in elite athletic condition. It remains to be seen if they will ever regain their top running form.

---

I'll assume by "few" that you mean three. So, you're describing outcomes for 8 kids in your circle.

25% were hospitalized, 12.5% have long Covid, and the rest are fine.

Either,

-Science has failed us because your example isn't in the same universe as the data. Society as we know it will end because 1 in 4 kids with Covid are being hospitalized and 37.5% are either hospitalized or have long Covid.

-or, more obviously, you've experienced a wild statistical anomaly in your circle and using it as a pro child vax anecdote online.

The key word in the entire post is "fear". It's driving everything and I totally get it, but that doesn't mean facts should be ignored. I don't think anyone is saying bad things can't happen.

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I don't even know what post you were reading. I can't even find the word "few" in it. I do know that it has been posted several times IN THIS THREAD that Covid poses NO risk for children. So, given that backdrop, it should be obvious that I'm not here to tell about the 100 kids I've known who were just fine. I'm merely refuting the ignorance expressed. Granted, I know that the ignorance was willfully expressed, but because it was intended to deceive people, I don't think it was fair to those who truly want to know if there are possible bad outcomes for kids.

And, even though the internet has allegedly given us access to more people and information than ever, I have found that people are WAY more siloed than they've ever been. Because of that, I've been a good neighbor by letting people know that as a father of many, it became clear many months ago that EVERYONE is going to get Covid, and that people who are still masking and social distancing needed to make the real choice - whether to face Covid with the vaccine or not.

I have noticed, again anecdotally, that the most strident posters here happen to be people who got Covid already and did just fine. But, I suppose those anecdotes are more legitimate.

This is a good synopsis of what can happen with anyone (including kids) and COVID-19 infection. Most likely your child will do fine if he/she gets COVID-19.....most likely.

There's really no reason to avoid a basically harmless vaccine that can prevent serious illness, and rarely, death.

There's not really a point in arguing with the anti-vaxxers. It's a bizarre cult.

I wish they'd go back to Forum 16 though. And leave this forum for legitimate COVID-19 infection/vaccine related discussion.