https://retractionwatch.com/2021/11/02/ivermectin-covid-19-study-retracted-authors-blame-file-mixup/

Apologies if already posted. 11 extra duplicative rows in the data. This one never made sense to me as ivermectin's pharmacokinetic properties were unfavorable, at current dosage at least, and was waiting for a larger study to be more informative.

From the article you posted:

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It was brought to our attention that we have used wrong file for our paper. We informed immediately the journal and we have run investigations. After revising the raw data we realised that a file that was used to train a research assistant was sent by mistake for analysis. Re-analysing the original data , the conclusions of the paper remained valid. For our transparency we asked for retraction.

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Seems like they acknowledged the error of using the incorrect dataset, reran the analysis with the correct dataset and the conclusions remained valid. I'd have to see the actual numbers of the study to verify.

Good summary of all the fraudulent ivermectin studies.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/25/fraudulent-ivermectin-studies-open-up-new-battleground-between-science-and-misinformation

gunan01 said:

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Lol that won't stop people from taking horse de-wormer instead of the vaccine. Ivermectin has cult-like following.

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I agree with your sentiment but Ivermectin is a pretty fantastic drug for human scabies and lice and a few other parasites as well. Calling it a horse medication only really devalues it as a valid prescription medication.

The smiley face was supposed to indicate tongue-in-cheek for my de-wormer comment, and I'm not devaluing it for its FDA-approved uses.

But let's stop pretending that it has any role in treating or preventing COVID-19 at this time. The evidence isn't there.

gunan01 said:

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Lol that won't stop people from taking horse de-wormer instead of the vaccine. Ivermectin has cult-like following.

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LOL, what will stop people calling it a horse de-wormer? Education, brains? Talk about a cult following.

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LOL, what will stop people calling it a horse de-wormer? Education, brains? Talk about a cult following.

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I am guessing when it is not being garbled up by folks as a COVID-related treatment. To me, horse de-wormer is a derogatory comment aimed at those individuals ignoring medical guidance and the vast majority of doctor's treatment guidelines.

Windy City Ag said:

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LOL, what will stop people calling it a horse de-wormer? Education, brains? Talk about a cult following.

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I am guessing when it is not being garbled up by folks as a COVID-related treatment. To me, horse de-wormer is a derogatory comment aimed at those individuals ignoring medical guidance and the vast majority of doctor's treatment guidelines.

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To me, it simply makes the arguer look stupid.

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To me, it simply makes the arguer look stupid.

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It is juvenile . . .as is Branch Covidian and Covidiot and all the other dumb insults that have cropped up.

That being said, a person that chooses to look past all the medical guidelines, robust statistical research, and advice of personal physicians regarding a treatment like Ivermectin should not expect to be praised for their judgement and decision making ability.

Windy City Ag said:

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To me, it simply makes the arguer look stupid.

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It is juvenile . . .as is Branch Covidian and Covidiot and all the other dumb insults that have cropped up.

That being said, a person that chooses to look past all the medical guidelines, robust statistical research, and advice of personal physicians regarding a treatment like Ivermectin should not expect to be praised for their judgement and decision making ability.

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Yea, that's a two way street. And the government Is the biggest perpetrator looking past everything.

gunan01 said:

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Lol that won't stop people from taking horse de-wormer instead of the vaccine. Ivermectin has cult-like following.

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It worked for me or so did my immune system . . . twice.

Why do I need a vaccine?

Windy City Ag said:

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To me, it simply makes the arguer look stupid.

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It is juvenile . . .as is Branch Covidian and Covidiot and all the other dumb insults that have cropped up.

That being said, a person that chooses to look past all the medical guidelines, robust statistical research, and advice of personal physicians regarding a treatment like Ivermectin should not expect to be praised for their judgement and decision making ability.

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My personal physician prescribed ivermectin and other treatments during my last stint with covid.

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Yea, that's a two way street. And the government Is the biggest perpetrator looking past everything.

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But it is not the "government" that is being indicted with this discussion. It is the statistical method that we all use on a daily basis to separate truth from fiction. That process is used by research labs, corporations, investment markets, government agencies, etc, etc.

Ivermectin has been placed on that scale and flunked in most cases. Certainly the random person can try to claim that "it worked for me" but that is just naive speculation.

Windy City Ag said:

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Yea, that's a two way street. And the government Is the biggest perpetrator looking past everything.

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But it is not the "government" that is being indicted with this discussion. It is the statistical method that we all use on a daily basis to separate truth from fiction. That process is used by research labs, corporations, investment markets, government agencies, etc, etc.

Ivermectin has been placed on that scale and flunked in most cases. Certainly the random person can try to claim that "it worked for me" but that is just naive speculation.

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Have you had Covid? Were you treated with ivermectin and felt immediate relief?

I have, in both instances. My first hand experience tells me it works.

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Have you had Covid? Were you treated with ivermectin and felt immediate relief?

I have, in both instances. My first hand experience tells me it works.

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But that is not how it works . . . . .your single data-point and your incredibly limited ability to determine what actually helped your system eradicate the bug is no replacement for large scale, properly managed investigations by trained experts.

I'll take your non-response as a no.

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I'll take your non-response as a no.

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I have not had COVID symptoms improve due to Ivermectin use.

And, as I said earlier people can believe whatever they want. They can believe the moon is made of green cheese or that the bumps on your head or lines on your palm can help predict the future.

Society at large won't care unless there is a much more thorough and rigorous investigation based on quality data. A few of those are underway, and maybe they come back with more reliable conclusions supporting ivermectin use. Until then, people are just talking out of their ass.

Why can't you just answer the questions?

Have you had Covid?

If so, were you treated with ivermectin?

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Why can't you just answer the questions?

Have you had Covid?

If so, were you treated with ivermectin?

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I just said no and your point is irrelevant.

So, you have no first hand experience with any of the topics you are opining.

Thanks.

No, I have no firsthand experience treating COVID symptoms with Ivermectin. You got me.

I did do a big chunk of my graduate studies in statistical research and have worked for years in trying to tease out reliable relationships in data-sets while avoiding the all too human biases, false beliefs, and poorly structured research efforts that lead the average joe to make dumb choices on the margin.

Based on that, I still believe your single data-point and personal beliefs are completely irrelevant to this discussion. If you can't grasp why that is, we will just have to move on here.

Good for you. None of that negates a person's personal experience, particularly a negative experience from the vaccine.

Statistics is a garbage science...I too dedicated a significant amount of time in my graduate studies to statistics in gleaning reliable data.

Also, I have 3 degrees, you seem to only have 2. I can't stand when an argument devolves into "muh graduate studiez."

But here we are.

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And it makes anyone saying it look like a willfully ignorant moron who regurgitates inaccuracies as a form of criticism and humor.

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Or just people who know how to get under other people's skin, as this thread proves. People using this insult are not willfully ignorant . . . Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic used most often in animals.

They are just poking fun at people they think to be a bit ignorant, which is not helpful given the larger backdrop of HCQ, real and crazy anti-VAXX leanings, Houston Witch Doctors, highly questionable mask mandates that are still lingering ( I got scolded at a coffee shop just today for not having my mask), locking down kids despite the harm outweighing the benefits, etc etc. Those are all more obvious targets for incredibly stupid behavior during this COVID stretch.

Ivermectin is in the camp of who knows, probably doesn't help, but it is worth investigating.

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Good for you. None of that negates a person's personal experience, particularly a negative experience from the vaccine.

Statistics is a garbage science...I too dedicated a significant amount of time in my graduate studies to statistics in gleaning reliable data.

Also, I have 3 degrees, you seem to only have 2. I can't stand when an argument devolves into "muh graduate studiez."

But here we are.

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Yeah no . . . . anyone with a modicum of research experience would not be on here saying "This happened to me . . . .this is how the world works." and "Statistics is garbage science."



There is nothing wrong with statistical method other than the fact that people abuse it in many cases and hide it away when there conclusions are not justified.

Have a great weekend. It is beautiful out . . . . . we arent changing each others minds, the Ags are about to sign a bunch of 5*s and whoop Auburn. Have a good one. I am hanging up here.

WTF?!? You think your single data point (with no control BTW) outweighs studies? That's…bizarre. And since you are doing a peen-measuring contest, I have three degrees

Windy City Ag said:

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Have you had Covid? Were you treated with ivermectin and felt immediate relief?

I have, in both instances. My first hand experience tells me it works.

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But that is not how it works . . . . .your single data-point and your incredibly limited ability to determine what actually helped your system eradicate the bug is no replacement for large scale, properly managed investigations by trained experts.

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Ive had Covid long haul symptoms for 17 months, and post vaccine symptoms for 7 months. Everytime I take Ivermectin, I feel better within 30 minutes, all of my symptoms go away. Imagine experiencing flu like and dizzy symptoms every single day of your life. Thats what Ive been dealing with for 17 months, and Ivermectin is the only thing that has made me feel better.

Ivermectin has literally worked miracles for me.

I have no idea if ivermectin works against Covid. But I don't understand the singular emphasis on it. This is a novel disease and it's my understanding that a wide variety of treatments have been tried and continue to be tried despite no proven efficacy. This shouldn't be surprising. Yet only ivermectin is criticized. Seems weird. For instance, I'm pretty sure Z packs have been prescribed. Is there a study proving its efficacy? If not, shouldn't the people criticizing ivermectin also have the same criticisms against prescribing Z packs?

HCQ w/ zinc was equally attacked. Anything that doesn't support the official narrative and to enrich big pharm is mocked and shout down.

This is all by design and several Ags have fallen head over heels with this approach.

JCA1 said:

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I have no idea if ivermectin works against Covid. But I don't understand the singular emphasis on it. This is a novel disease and it's my understanding that a wide variety of treatments have been tried and continue to be tried despite no proven efficacy. This shouldn't be surprising. Yet only ivermectin is criticized. Seems weird. For instance, I'm pretty sure Z packs have been prescribed. Is there a study proving its efficacy? If not, shouldn't the people criticizing ivermectin also have the same criticisms against prescribing Z packs?

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I took Zpak and steroid pack for my long haul covid and neither did anything for me. Didn't help at all. In fact they both made me nauseous and my stomach hurt like crazy after taking them.

I felt zero side effects with ivermectin other than feeling 100% better after 30 minutes of consuming it.

Pinche makes some good points. I mean, would anyone with any sense go to a cardiologist that hasn't suffered a heart attack?

Would you trust a dietician that is not an obese diabetic?

A brain surgeon that doesn't also have a brain tumor? Didn't think so!

Without first hand experience, they clearly have no credibility.

Pinche Abogado said:

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Two data points for our esteemed colleagues.

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Well with that logic there was that thread where 3 people including Rex all said they took Ivermectin and ended up in the ICU with COVID. So based on this purely anecdotal study of 5 people, taking Ivermectin increases your odds of going to the ICU with COVID by an order if magnitude.

I hear snake oil is another COVID miracle drug. Some 90-95% of people that take it get better shortly after.