Vaccine Hesitance

14,166 Views | 146 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by cc_ag92
texan12
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https://www.fda.gov/media/144859/download

Here's a snippet from the FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION (FDA) Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER) 162nd Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) Meeting


DR. WILLIAM GRUBER: Thank you, Kathrin. It's
9 my pleasure to share with you today the development
10 program for our vaccine candidate BNT162b2. I'm going
11 to begin with a very brief summary of the non-clinical
12 data that encouraged us to move forward into the
13 clinic. This includes both toxicity studies as well as
14 a study looking at a challenge study in Rhesus-
15 Macaques. These studies are described in the briefing
16 documents.
17 Two toxicity studies in rats, including the
18 BNT162b2 vaccine construct, were completed with no
19 safety concerns. Development and reproductive toxicity
20 studies are ongoing with preliminary results available
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1 by mid-December. In a SARS-CoV-2 Rhesus challenge
2 model, the BNT162b2 construct provided complete
3 protection in the lungs as determined by nucleic acid
4 amplification testing for SARS-CoV-2 and
5 bronchoalveolar lavage fluid. This information is now
6 published. And importantly, there was no radiologic or
7 histopathologic evidence of vaccine-elicited disease
8 enhancement.
9 Despite limitations of animal models, these
10 findings anticipated results in our Phase 3 clinical
11 trial in which there is no evidence of enhanced
12 disease. These results were encouraging, satisfied FDA
13 guidance criteria, and permitted progression of human
14 clinical trials. I'm now going to share with you the
15 clinical safety, immunogenicity, and efficacy data from
16 our overall clinical development program.
17 First, I will cover safety and immune response
18 from the German and U.S. studies and then cover aspects
19 of the Phase 2/3 trial finishings with the safety and
20 efficacy results. So let's begin with the two Phase 1
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1 studies. The German Phase 1 dose-ranging study was
2 conducted in individuals 18 to 55 years of age. 12
3 subjects received the active BNT162b2 vaccine for each
4 dose level cohort. This study evaluated safety,
5 binding, and neutralizing antibody responses, as well
6 as cell-mediated immune response to look for the
7 potential for Th 1-biased, CD4, and CD8 T Cell
8 responses.
9 The U.S. study is a seamless study where we
10 have a Phase 1 portion that moved into Phase 2 and then
11 Phase 3. For the Phase 1 dose-ranging portion, we
12 included 18 to 55 and 65 to 85-year-old individuals.
13 Twelve of whom received vaccine and 3 received placebo
14 per dose-level cohort. We looked at safety and
15 immunogenicity with both binding and neutralizing
16 antibody responses and followed reactogenicity by
17 electronic diary.
18 These individuals will continue to be followed
19 for a full two years after the second dose. The
20 results from the Phase 1 experience have now been www.transcriptionetc.com
207

1 published and you have details in your briefing
2 documents.


Is it common that trails have such few participants? Also stated in the linked transcript is that the manufacturing process can not be disclosed since it's proprietary.
Daddy-O5
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AG
Phat32 said:

To answer the OP's question:

I spend a lot of time exercising, eating right and have zero health issues. Finished my second Ironman a couple months ago. Age group 25-34. As an act of pure risk assessment, I do not feel I need a vaccine against COVID-19. My opinion would change if I was in the group mentioned by OP. This is not a political stance.

Was very excited about the vaccine introduction as I thought it would bring a nice end to this whole thing.
- People who were at high risk would be able to get it
- People scared of their shadow could get it
- People not worried about COVID could choose

And we could all move on with the obviously endemic virus just a part of life.

Instead, it has morphed into a political nightmare affecting people's livelihoods and splitting people apart. Now you've completely lost people that were on the fence.
x2. Except slightly older and no ironman shenanigans.
Thanks, and Gig 'Em!
Philip J Fry
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AG
cc_ag92 said:

cc_ag92: "My question... if you are vaccine hesitant and haven't had Covid, is there any scientific information that might change your mind?"

Old Buffalo: I don't care about your actual question. I'll answer the question I want to answer because it hasn't been said a million plus times on this board. Why on earth would you try to start a different conversation? It must be because you're close-minded. It certainly can't be that I have a one-track mind.



The word "scientific" has become synonymous with the left wing agenda. Just like the fake science behind global warming.

There's no science that say masks work. No science that says it's safe to wear a mask into a restaurant and then sit in a room full of maskless people. The science being pushed ignores natural immunity. Ignore the fact that we want the virus to mutate into something less dangerous. The scientists ignored the emotional and economic toll of the lockdowns. So yeah, kindly jog off with the mandates.
LoudestWHOOP!
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AG
cc_ag92 said:

I will probably regret posting this, but I am hoping that we can have a civil discussion.

In the past month, three people that I know very well have been admitted to the hospital with Covid. One is on a vent and in a coma right now. One is at home on oxygen. One is still in the hospital after having a Covid-related heart attack. He clearly had undiagnosed blockages prior to contracting Covid, but he didn't know about them and he had a heart attack while weakened by Covid.

None of these people were vaccinated. None of them had natural immunity from a prior infection. All of them are over 50. They felt like the Covid "situation" was overblown and that vaccines don't really work, so why bother?

I am NOT celebrating. I am actually sad that they are suffering. I will not ask them this question because I know it would be insensitive. Maybe a year from now when they are hopefully fully recovered, but not now.

My question... if you are vaccine hesitant and haven't had Covid, is there any scientific information that might change your mind?
Let's leave the idea of mandates and vax cards out of this discussion. If your medical decision is based on politics, that's not the discussion I'm hoping to have.
First off, I am very sorry for those who have lost someone to Covid. We have been very lucky so far.
The mixed messaging by the federal and global health agencies on Covid has been atrocious.
The bribing and coercion to force vaccines makes people think there may be more going on.
The "evidence" provided by these same agencies seem to never consider natural immunity, prophylactic treatments or early treatment of symptoms with off-label medications.
Most mentions of these 3 alternatives gets immediately squashed by the Agencies, Media and their Government "leaders" or the "It's not PEER reviewed data."
It was a "novel virus" nothing is peer reviewed until it is, but all options should be considered if something is working. This was and is battlefield medicine.
Also some of these Government leaders were the ones that sent folks into nursing homes to spread the disease and die. I see this nothing less than murder.

My biggest concern in all of this is (having fought off Covid unvaccinated) is the process from test to cure.
How many people who died of Covid were actually treating the illness before the trip to the hospital?
Did they take anything to fight it after they had a positive test?
Or did they just wait until it is too late?
I have not read everyone's story, but I have heard of so many people that get sent home after a positive test with a prescription for cough medicine, some aspirin or a "check back when you can't breathe or your O2 is below 92%."
I am sorry, but the "beat it on your own or come to the hospital to die" seems like a $#!++y way to treat any illness. And in almost 2 years if you follow Government Agency guidelines it does not appear to have changed.

Zobel
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AG
Yes, its normal for trials to begin with small numbers and proceed to larger ones. The FDA website has a breakdown of each phase and what they're looking for:
https://www.fda.gov/patients/drug-development-process/step-3-clinical-research

These trials went quickly for two reasons. One was because there were so many volunteers which gives a lot of data faster in terms of safety. The other was that the disease is so prevalent, which shows pretty quickly if the drug is working or not. For a drug that is less prevalent or takes a much longer time to have an effect, you have to wait a lot longer to see if it works. The phase 3 trials for the mRNA vaccines were ten to a hundred times larger than typical.

You can read the full phase 1 / 2 trial paper from Pfizer here:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2639-4

And the subsequent pivotal phase 3 trial here
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577


Quote:

Also stated in the linked transcript is that the manufacturing process can not be disclosed since it's proprietary.
Parts of it are but a lot of it is public info. And the process itself is vetted by the FDA at every step to make sure the product is consistent and safe when its being made - its called Chemistry Manufacturing and Controls. This is probably the step that took the longest for the current vaccines. Here's a good article on it
https://pacificbiolabs.com/cmc-biologics

And here's a fascinating post where someone spent way too much time looking at public domain info on the Pfizer supply chain
https://blog.jonasneubert.com/2021/01/10/exploring-the-supply-chain-of-the-pfizer-biontech-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines/
texan12
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Zobel, that last link has some interesting stuff. I was even able to find the MSDS for some of the ingredients in the vaccine. Had no clue that would exist.
TylerAg98
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AG
I will answer the OPs question using his parameters first, but then I must add to it to give an accurate reason for choosing not to get the vaccine.

I was very skeptical at first at how quickly these vaccines were being pushed through, but admittedly, I did not have enough or accurate understanding of how mRNA vaccines were developed. I also did not realize that the technology had been around for decades prior to COVID.

Next, I became somewhat skeptical of the safety of the vaccines when hearing about numerous individuals who had experienced some alarming side effects. Then, when trying to see how those side effects were being reported, it became clear that someone or some group of people did not want these reports to surface and certainly were not doing a good job of tracking them.

Lastly, I simply looked at my personal situation (mid 40s, very healthy, not overweight, work out regularly, no comorbidities) and weighed that against the very low percentage of fatalities. I did not see the need as literally everyone I know had recovered from COVID.

However, as time went on, I realized that all of the people that I know who did choose to get vaccinated did so without any issues or concerning side effects. I also began to read about case after case of men just like me who got the virus and for whatever reason became severely ill and some died.

This got me second guessing my decision and I started to do even more research. I tried to keep politics out of it (although that is extremely difficult - I don't trust any politicians and felt the entire pandemic was handled very poorly). Just about that time, I tested positive. This was about 6 weeks ago.

I did not end up having a severe case. I did seek early treatment and was given Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, a Z-pack, and Budesonide. I took all of these along with all of the suggested supplements. I was sick for about two weeks, but had some lingering issues for another two. I've since been told that early treatment is absolutely key to a positive outcome. I'm thankful for the nurse who said I needed to seek early treatment.

Now that I have natural immunity, I do not see the need to get the vaccine. I am not anit-vaxx and believe in the individual's right to choose. I wholeheartedly believe some people should absolutely get the shot. I certainly do not believe that mandates are the answer and they are surely keeping people from getting the vax.

It is a complicated issue and I think people have different reasons for getting the shot vs. choosing not to. It is not just two groups of people (anti-vaxx conspiracy nuts vs. blind vaxx followers). I believe it is quite a bit more complicated than that.
cc_ag92
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AG
RED III said:

It is a complicated issue and I think people have different reasons for getting the shot vs. choosing not to. It is not just two groups of people (anti-vaxx conspiracy nuts vs. blind vaxx followers). I believe it is quite a bit more complicated than that.
Thanks for your thoughtful answer.

So glad you recovered and are healthy now.

I agree with this final paragraph completely which is why I asked the question. I was curious about what might change someone's mind and I've appreciated hearing from people about that.

Thanks for your time!
 
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