I will probably regret posting this, but I am hoping that we can have a civil discussion.

In the past month, three people that I know very well have been admitted to the hospital with Covid. One is on a vent and in a coma right now. One is at home on oxygen. One is still in the hospital after having a Covid-related heart attack. He clearly had undiagnosed blockages prior to contracting Covid, but he didn't know about them and he had a heart attack while weakened by Covid.

None of these people were vaccinated. None of them had natural immunity from a prior infection. All of them are over 50. They felt like the Covid "situation" was overblown and that vaccines don't really work, so why bother?

I am NOT celebrating. I am actually sad that they are suffering. I will not ask them this question because I know it would be insensitive. Maybe a year from now when they are hopefully fully recovered, but not now.

My question... if you are vaccine hesitant and haven't had Covid, is there any scientific information that might change your mind?
Let's leave the idea of mandates and vax cards out of this discussion. If your medical decision is based on politics, that's not the discussion I'm hoping to have.

Two things:

If mRNA has been around for a while and is such a great advancement in technology, why has it taken so long to be released to the general public?

Why do young and healthy people need to be vaccinated when the numbers are in their favor? Sure, there may be long term side effects from the virus, but to say there are absolutely no long term side effects from the vaccine seems skeptical.

If there was official recognition of natural immunity (instead of vax cards only), no federal mandates, and the federal government slows down the propaganda on vaccinations, I think that would go a long way in improving the reception.

Old Buffalo said:

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If there was official recognition of natural immunity (instead of vax cards only), no federal mandates, and the federal government slows down the propaganda on vaccinations, I think that would go a long way in improving the reception.

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Add in free antibody testing to go with all the free diagnostic testing. That way the population can accurately assess if they've already had Covid. But that would require the bolded above

Quote:

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is there any scientific information that might change your mind?

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Sure doesn't seem like it. The data at this stage is overwhelmingly in favor of the vaccine for any adult not previously infected, and especially adults over 30.

There are so many people that haven't gotten the vaccine that absolutely should. The problem is that our "credible" institutions have pushed so many blatant lies that no one believes them anymore.

Masks don't work but we've forced people into wearing these uncomfortable face diapers

Natural immunity is given absolutely zero credit when it is obviously superior to the shot

Your life can go back to normal once you get the shot.

Your kids need the shot and they need to be masked up at school all the time.

The CDC doesn't talk about how getting in shape and losing weight is a great defense against Covid

Our elected officials have used this virus to advance their agendas, and now they tell people to get vaccinated for their own good. People don't think politicians have their best interests in mind.

No one believe the CDC anymore. They've lost all credibility. So when we tell a 50 year old smoker with a beer gut and sedentary life style that they should get the vaccine, they don't listen.

The vaccine has been advertised as a miracle cure. It is obviously NOT a miracle cure. It keeps you out of the hospital. You can still get it, you can still spread it, but you won't die. If we could be honest about what the vaccine is and who should actually get it, then more high risk people would be willing to take it. But forcing it on everyone and treating high risk people the same as 30 year old covid survivors ruins your credibility and makes people tune out.

Old Buffalo said:

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If there was official recognition of natural immunity (instead of vax cards only), no federal mandates, and the federal government slows down the propaganda on vaccinations, I think that would go a long way in improving the reception.

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This is how you know it's not about health, it's about government control.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Old Buffalo said:

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If there was official recognition of natural immunity (instead of vax cards only), no federal mandates, and the federal government slows down the propaganda on vaccinations, I think that would go a long way in improving the reception.

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This is how you know it's not about health, it's about government control.

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Care to elaborate?

Fitch said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Old Buffalo said:

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If there was official recognition of natural immunity (instead of vax cards only), no federal mandates, and the federal government slows down the propaganda on vaccinations, I think that would go a long way in improving the reception.

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This is how you know it's not about health, it's about government control.

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Care to elaborate?

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What's to elaborate about? Old Buffalo already crushed a low liner over centerfield.

texan12 said:

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Two things:

If mRNA has been around for a while and is such a great advancement in technology, why has it taken so long to be released to the general public?

Why do young and healthy people need to be vaccinated when the numbers are in their favor? Sure, there may be long term side effects from the virus, but to say there are absolutely no long term side effects from the vaccine seems skeptical.

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To reply to your two points
Rolling out a vaccine like this is so expensive it would only be attempted for a novel virus with the potential of overwhelming current health services

Posted indicated his friends with Covid were middle aged , he should have limited the question to people over 45 declining the vax

I did lots of research and had sane discussions with all my families doctors, Aggie doctor friends who I hunt and fish with, and some cancer doctors I trust.
They explained that the MRNA vaccine has been around and those drugs were the basis or building block for the Covid vacs.
Looking at all the data and input from them, seeing and learning of the definite long term effects on the body if you get Covid, and realizing that the vaccines do, in fact, help.... made me finally decide to get the shot.
At the end of the day I prayed for Gods guidance, trusted my doctors, and with a leap of faith got it. I have had no side effects or problems at all. Neither has any of my family. Young or old from getting it.

I didn't intentionally leave age out of my question, but if people answer with their age and the scientific evidence that it would take to change their mind, I appreciate that nuanced answer.

I did intentionally ask people to leave politics out of it, though, and that didn't work.

I'm a pretty healthy (probably 20 lbs overweight but otherwise healthy non-smoker). I was pretty hesitant to get the vaccine for a few reasons. 1. How hard the govt was pushing for it while ignoring a lot of the possible side effects and still pushing masks when it was obvious that was more about control than anything else and 2. Worried about possible side effects if we had another kid.

Most of y'all have probably seen my story but if you haven't check out the last 5 pages of the "just tested positive" thread. I got covid a month ago, was nothing for a few days until I got pneumonia along with it. Suddenly in the hospital and just barely missed going on a ventilator. I was VERY close to dying. Spent 7 days in the hospital then 7 at home, then another 5 in the hospital due to a secondary infection and air that leaked out of my lungs due to the amount of oxygen I was on. It was putting pressure on my lungs and heart and making it hard to breathe.

If you do test positive and haven't been vaccinated, do not take steroids unless you are on oxygen. Doctors in the hospital were not happy that the urgent care doctor gave me steroids prior to me going to the hospital and think that may have played a part in why I went south so quickly. I would also definitely get the monoclonal infusion asap if you can.

I'll put it this way - not getting the vaccine has been one of my biggest regrets. I'm on the mend, but I don't know if this has permanently damaged my lungs yet or not. I hope not but only time will tell. I will be getting vaccinated as soon as I can which is in a few months. My wife, parents, in laws, all got it and luckily they all avoided the hospital. I'm not going to chance it going forward, as the last month has been a living hell.

I advise all of y'all, 30+ to put aside what you think you know, and not take the chance. I thought it was going to be nothing. Turns out I was wrong, and this disease has devastated my family mentally, physically, and financially, because of it. I wouldn't wish the last month of my life on anyone. And I got lucky. There were a lot of times over the last month that I didn't think I was going to get to see my wife again, or my daughters. I wasn't sure I was making it out of the hospital.

In conclusion, the risk isn't worth it... Trust me.

ChemAg15 said:

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No one believe the CDC anymore. They've lost all credibility. So when we tell a 50 year old smoker with a beer gut and sedentary life style that they should get the vaccine, they don't listen.

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This doesn't describe any of the people I know who were hospitalized. The one who has been released and the one who had a heart attack are overweight and have actively been working to reverse that since the beginning of the pandemic. So, they should have gotten the vaccine because of their weight and age, which their doctor told them, but they chose not to do so.

The 53yo female who is currently hospitalized is a former marathon runner who is currently an active runner, not marathons because of knees, but very active. Age is her only known risk factor.

I'm not telling you this to argue, but because I agree that our messaging has been a mess. It probably shouldn't be "every living American needs this vaccine," but it also shouldn't be "you only need it if you are fat or sedentary or a smoker." I'm not sure where the line is, but it's somewhere in between those two views.

Thank you for being so open with your story.

Is there anything that would have convinced you to get the vaccine before your illness? Would hearing a story like yours about someone you didn't know have worked? Or do you think you would have needed to know the person for it to impact you?

This is not an attempt to berate you for a decision you made. I understand you made a decision based on the information you had at the time and I respect that completely.

I actually had decided that I was going to get vaccinated when I got sick. A guy I knew at work got sick and passed away within a week of getting the disease. I was planning to get vaccinated the following week, and I got covid that weekend I'm pretty sure.

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry for your loss and continuing to pray for your full recovery.

I've read it here and on Facebook each time he posts. His office is just up the road from me, so I was familiar with him as a doctor before most of TexAgs. While I don't see him, I know many people who do and I've valued his insight from the very beginning.
He currently recommends vaccinations in addition to the supplements (which we've taken from the beginning).

OP, Also look into Novavax. If the government was so benevolent with our tax money and wanted every option available, they would be promoting this vaccine. It can be stored at normal refrigerator temps and is made similarly to other common vaccines.

Has Novavax even filed for their EUA yet?

I'm 41, healthy BMI, no comorbidities. (Yes, I'm definitely healthy BMI and not just saying "I'm not overweight", but in reality I could stand to lose 20 lbs. I'm actually well within my BMI range.)

What would change things and cause me to get it? If the mortality rate were 10% or higher for my age range, I'd probably go get it. If I lived with my father who is in poor health, I'd probably get it.

It's hard to leave politics out of the discussion because even with that "10%" I quoted above, the government/CDC has bungled all of this so badly that nobody can really trust any of the numbers anymore. On either side of the aisle.

Fitch said:

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Has Novavax even filed for their EUA yet?

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Not sure. Last I heard they went through phase 3 trail. The numbers were more promising than the mRNA vaccines at the same phase.

ChemAg15 said:

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We agree. I was just using my father in law as an extreme example. Age and weight are clearly the biggest factors that drive covid risk.

Young healthy people can get it and get hospitalized as well. It's just the awful messaging that has caused people to tune out and dig in their heels in on vaccine hesitancy.

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3% chance of hospitalization for healthy mid 30s.

texan12 said:

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ChemAg15 said:

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We agree. I was just using my father in law as an extreme example. Age and weight are clearly the biggest factors that drive covid risk.

Young healthy people can get it and get hospitalized as well. It's just the awful messaging that has caused people to tune out and dig in their heels in on vaccine hesitancy.

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3% chance of hospitalization for healthy mid 30s.

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Got a link? That sounds very wrong.

Texagsubscriber said:

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Rule Number 32 said:

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I actually had decided that I was going to get vaccinated when I got sick. A guy I knew at work got sick and passed away within a week of getting the disease. I was planning to get vaccinated the following week, and I got covid that weekend I'm pretty sure.

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Just curious but what about the statistics and did you do your own research?

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Not sure I understand this question.

I did my own research about as much as anyone else does I suppose. The sheer amount of pressure the govt is putting on everyone to get vaccinated despite relatively low risk is pretty much what pushed me away from it in the first place. In retrospect, I wish I had. I know the numbers for hospitalization in my age group are very low, and I've had almost all of my friends get it with no major symptoms, but being the one who ended up in the hospital, I can tell you that it is not worth it to hold off and end up being the unlucky one.

texan12 said:

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https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1412

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This study doesn't appear to cover recent data regarding the Delta variant in the USA. The Delta variant is more serious for younger adults compared to previous variants.

My 60 year old husband won't take the vaccine. He's gone pretty anti-vax in recent years.

He was having some medical issues and his doctor recommended the hepatitis B vaccine. Right afterward, my husband started having terrible breathing problems. He's had terrible asthma ever since. He's convinced it was a side effect of the vaccine.

The rest of our family is vaccinated, so hopefully none of us will give him Covid. He's an introvert, so he's good with avoiding crowds. He's retired. He's happy to miss gatherings with my family and friends.

He's not overweight, but he is low on vitamin D and he has hypertension.

I'll make sure he gets monoclonal antibodies if he gets Covid.

It gives me a lot more understanding and compassion for those not getting vaccinated. I may not agree with them, but I'm not angry at them.

There is a doctor in Dallas who switched her entire practice over to a covid clinic in April 2020 and has been been treating patients since with incredible success. I am not sure of exact numbers but she has lost very few, if any, patients. I will never be comfortable with the fact that we should have been screaming from the rooftops about getting early treatment from the beginning. Why was the messaging that the best thing we can do was to do nothing and stay home? That messaging would have been fine if we had said stay home but also seek treatment early. We suppressed the voices of those trying to help. Our first line of defense should have been outpatient clinics, PCPs and urgent cares, not the inpatient floors and ICUs of hospitals. We will never know how many people we could have saved if early treatment had been the messaging but because of this, I will not get the vaccine. The trust is lost.