Let's go! 5 and up!

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SamHou
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In reply to Harry Stone • 6:30a, 10/12/21
Thanks for the explanation.
I thought the time from injection until all the injected mRNA has bound is very short. If so, how could that "short-term competition" produce long-term adverse effects?
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Harry Stone
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In reply to SamHou • 10:33a, 10/12/21
AG
SamHou said:
Thanks for the explanation.
I thought the time from injection until all the injected mRNA has bound is very short. If so, how could that "short-term competition" produce long-term adverse effects?


yes, mRNA has a very short life which is great. let's take bell's palsy as an example, which has had a very few incidences to the vaccine. poor prognosis of bell's palsy can be related to the ratio of c-reactive protein to albumin. c-reacive protein is high with inflammation. so if less albumin is being made by your cells, you could have an abnormal c-reactive protein to albumin ratio. not saying it will happen, but you never know. in the cases of myocarditis, they typically appear 4 days after the 2nd vaccine dose. for all we know, in these cases, the vaccine could be blocking an enzyme for proteolysis, the natural degradation of proteins, which is an imprtant function of cellular processes.

here is a great paper on it

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7109953/


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TarponChaser
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12:01p, 10/12/21
An unvaccinated child is at less risk of serious Covid illness than a vaccinated 70-year-old.

From those noted conservative hacks at the New York Times.

"Emily Oster, an economist at Brown University who frequently writes about parenting, published an article in The Atlantic in March that made a lot of people angry. The headline was, "Your Unvaccinated Kid Is Like a Vaccinated Grandma." The article argued that Covid-19 tended to be so mild in children that vaccinated parents could feel comfortable going out in the world with their unvaccinated children.


Critics called the article insensitive and misleading, saying it understated the risks that children could both get sick and spread the virus. Oster responded on her website with a note standing by her main argument but apologizing particularly for the headline's lack of nuance. Her critics seemed somewhat vindicated.

Seven months later, with a lot more Covid data available, the debate over the article looks quite different.
Oster is the one who has largely been vindicated. If anything, subsequent data indicates she did not go far enough in describing the age skew of Covid. Today, an accurate version of her headline might be: "Your Unvaccinated Kid Is Much Safer Than a Vaccinated Grandma.""





""Covid is a threat to children. But it's not an extraordinary threat," Dr. Alasdair Munro, a pediatric infectious-disease specialist at the University of Southampton, has written. "It's very ordinary. In general, the risks from being infected are similar to the other respiratory viruses you probably don't think much about.""
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Marcus Brutus
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In reply to Ribbed Paultz • 11:44a, 10/20/21
Ribbed Paultz said:
cc_ag92 said:
Interesting article from KHOU- It's dated August 15, 2021, so obviously some of the data is outdated already.

Three years' worth of data proves the same point. The CDC reported that there have been a total of 325 deaths in children under 18 related to the flu since the 2018-2019 season.

There were 136 pediatric flu deaths reported during the 2018-2019 season, 188 pediatric deaths reported in the 2019-2020 season and one death during the 2020-2021 season.
For COVID-19, 349 kids have died in the last 18 months, which is when the pandemic began.

Interactive Fluview Site- This is also a good place to look for data.
This is great, thanks for posting.

At least it clears up the false notion that influenza is deadlier for the pediatric population than COVID-19.

lmao

that doesn't clear anything up.

Quote:
According to the CDC, one child under 18 years old died from the flu in the whole country during the 2020-2021 flu season.

"That's when we were masking, physically distanced, and a lot of kids were doing virtual learning. We had a lot of mitigations in place. One death due to the flu, but we continued to have COVID deaths," Chang said.


They looked at the numbers during this pandemic. Did you know that the flu all but disappeared during this pandemic last flu season?!

If you look at previous years, the numbers prove that flu is more risky!
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Rev03
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In reply to TarponChaser • 11:55a, 10/20/21
AG
This was a great article! But, you did leave out the part in the newsletter where it says that it seems that the evidence leans towards vaccinating kids. Here's the quote: "It feels like a close call that leans toward vaccination for an individual child and an easy decision for the sake of a child's grandparents and everybody else's grandparents."

Another good quote from the article: "What does Oster think about all of this? She has taken the high road on social media and in her email newsletter, rather than relitigating the earlier debate. Instead, she devoted a recent newsletter to reviewing the evidence about children and Covid vaccines.
"I hope we can be prepared to be a little bit gentle with each other," she wrote. "Asking questions about vaccines for kids or being more cautious for kids than older adults these are reasonable approaches."
At the end, she explained why she would be vaccinating her children once they became eligible: "I do not want them to get Covid. I am worried about their immune-compromised grandparent. I would like to avoid quarantine and keep them in school.""
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cone
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In reply to Rev03 • 12:04p, 10/20/21
AG
Quote:
"It feels like a close call that leans toward vaccination for an individual child and an easy decision for the sake of a child's grandparents and everybody else's grandparents."
but isn't that why we administer vaccines to grandparents first?

child vaccination isn't going to lead to eradication so...
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Rev03
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In reply to cone • 12:17p, 10/20/21
AG
yes, of course! I know the risk of severe disease for kids is low, and from everything I have read (including that newsletter that was posted with those great charts) the risks from the vaccine are even lower than that. I am one that has my kids get the flu shot every year, though, so I likely see these things differently from you. I am not trying to convince you either way, but I just wanted to share the whole story from that article that was posted above that even the economist who made those charts is planning on vaccinating her kids.
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cone
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In reply to Rev03 • 12:23p, 10/20/21
AG
my kids get flu shots too

just trying to understand the logic dispensed of vaccinating children to protect grandparents

unless you think the disease is going to be eradicated
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Harry Stone
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In reply to Rev03 • 12:31p, 10/20/21
AG
Rev03 said:
yes, of course! I know the risk of severe disease for kids is low, and from everything I have read (including that newsletter that was posted with those great charts) the risks from the vaccine are even lower than that. I am one that has my kids get the flu shot every year, though, so I likely see these things differently from you. I am not trying to convince you either way, but I just wanted to share the whole story from that article that was posted above that even the economist who made those charts is planning on vaccinating her kids.
we still don't know if the vaccine risks are lower in kids than the risk of the disease itself.
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Rev03
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In reply to cone • 12:33p, 10/20/21
AG
For me, it's mostly to protect my own kids from getting it. I would rather they didn't get it, because I am more worried about possible long-term consequences than I am of the vaccine. (However, I will say that we haven't restricted our kids from things, because we know the risks are low, but I still rather they not get it.) I have seen first-hand what polio did to my mother-in-law years and years after she contracted polio and got over it as a child. I have read research that suggests there could be a link between having mono as a teen and developing MS later in life, and I would totally vaccinate my kids for EBV, if one such vaccine ever came out, even though kids who get EBV usually don't have any symptoms. (Also, kind of an interesting thing I learned - in England they do not routinely vaccinate kids for chicken pox for the sole reason that they want to help protect adults who did have chicken pox when they were little from shingles. They think that adults still need to be exposed to kids having chicken pox to help better protect the adults.)

But, like I said, that is just me. I am not trying to convince you of anything - just answering your question, but it sort of seems like you are trying to convince me of something with your questioning, which is a little weird.
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cone
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In reply to Rev03 • 12:34p, 10/20/21
AG
Quote:
I am not trying to convince you of anything - just answering your question
but you aren't answering my question

how does vaccinating your kids protect their grandparents?
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Rev03
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In reply to cone • 12:37p, 10/20/21
AG
I said that's what the article gave as one reason to vaccinate kids - it was a quote I pulled from the article - not my own words from my mind. It isn't my reasoning, though it makes sense if your grandparent is immunocompromised, kind of like Colin Powell - he was fully vaccinated but his immune system was obviously really bad from his prior health conditions and cancer.
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tysker
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In reply to cone • 2:32p, 10/20/21
AG
cone said:
Quote:
I am not trying to convince you of anything - just answering your question
but you aren't answering my question

how does vaccinating your kids protect their grandparents?
Also how does vaccinating your kids protect "everybody else's grandparents"?
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ORAggieFan
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2:43p, 10/20/21
Vaccination likely reduces spread. But, I'm the end, everyone is going to get it. We need to stop pretending vaccinations will save us. They help greatly those who have it. That's proven. It won't prevent us from getting it at some point.

The way back to normal is to live a normal life. It's beyond time for that.
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Forum Troll
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2:46p, 10/20/21
AG
Vaccine isn't completely worthless at preventing infection, though definitely not as useful against delta, particularly Pfizer. Can't transmit a virus if you aren't infected. Not a difficult leap in logic to assume vaccinating kids could reduce spread to others.
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tysker
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In reply to Forum Troll • 5:40p, 10/20/21
AG
Forum Troll said:
Vaccine isn't completely worthless at preventing infection, though definitely not as useful against delta, particularly Pfizer. Can't transmit a virus if you aren't infected. Not a difficult leap in logic to assume vaccinating kids could reduce spread to others.
How often and how many kids are around adults to transmit infection? Except for school, maybe church, and some sports/extra curriculars, how many kids are in close proximity to adults while indoors for longer than a few minutes? Its not a leap in logic but it seems like a leap in real life scenarios. If the R0 for children <1 no vaccine is needed. Seems pretty simple.
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Forum Troll
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In reply to tysker • 5:46p, 10/20/21
AG
tysker said:
Forum Troll said:
Vaccine isn't completely worthless at preventing infection, though definitely not as useful against delta, particularly Pfizer. Can't transmit a virus if you aren't infected. Not a difficult leap in logic to assume vaccinating kids could reduce spread to others.
How often and how many kids are around adults to transmit infection? Except for school, maybe church, and some sports/extra curriculars, how many kids are in close proximity to adults while indoors for longer than a few minutes? Its not a leap in logic but it seems like a leap in real life scenarios. If the R0 for children <1 no vaccine is needed. Seems pretty simple.


Mainly, they can bring it home. I don't know if we know what the r0 is in children. Seemed like they didn't spread alpha very easily but not so much for delta.
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petebaker
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11:12a, 10/21/21

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waitwhat?
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In reply to Forum Troll • 11:34a, 10/21/21
Forum Troll said:
tysker said:
Forum Troll said:
Vaccine isn't completely worthless at preventing infection, though definitely not as useful against delta, particularly Pfizer. Can't transmit a virus if you aren't infected. Not a difficult leap in logic to assume vaccinating kids could reduce spread to others.
How often and how many kids are around adults to transmit infection? Except for school, maybe church, and some sports/extra curriculars, how many kids are in close proximity to adults while indoors for longer than a few minutes? Its not a leap in logic but it seems like a leap in real life scenarios. If the R0 for children <1 no vaccine is needed. Seems pretty simple.


Mainly, they can bring it home. I don't know if we know what the r0 is in children. Seemed like they didn't spread alpha very easily but not so much for delta.


What does this mean? If for alpha it was "almost never" but for delta it's still "almost never but more than alpha" does that mean we should be vaccinating all these kids?

The whole issue with this pandemic from the beginning was that people treated unknowns as proof that action was needed, when that's just a recipe for disaster, much like our entire pandemic response.

Do you have data or even any significant empirical evidence that children are now significant spreaders? Or is your position that we don't know so we should vaccinate them "just in case"?

I'm so tired of this after nearly two years. Taking action because of unknowns. It's not the proper way to respond to anything. Gather data and then act.
" 'People that read with pictures think that it's simply about a mask' - Dana Loesch" - Ban Cow Gas

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." - Dr. Ron Paul

Big Tech IS the empire of lies

TEXIT
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petebaker
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2:40p, 10/22/21

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Hincemm
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2:57p, 10/22/21
AG
just to hear to say this thread delivers.
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gunan01
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4:26p, 10/26/21
AG
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Satellite of Love
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In reply to gunan01 • 4:30p, 10/26/21
So where is the emergency in the 5 to 11 age group? Who at the FDA is heavily invested in or received kickbacks from Pfizer? How was Pfizer able to look at this without $$$$$ in their eyes?

So much for science and data.....
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planoaggie123
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In reply to gunan01 • 4:31p, 10/26/21
AG
gunan01 said:

Science. Toss it out the window. Its meaningless....
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Clown_World
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4:46p, 10/26/21
There is no emergency for small children.

How does one obtain an emergency use authorization with no emergency?
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planoaggie123
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In reply to Clown_World • 4:48p, 10/26/21
AG
CoachO_08 said:
There is no emergency for small children.

How does one obtain an emergency use authorization with no emergency?

The emergency it the mental disorder related to COVID-19 among many individuals.

The emergency is the power that politicians and big pharma have to jab everyone in sight in the name of the almighty $$
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Phat32
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6:20a, 10/27/21
AG
This process makes an absolute mockery of all known statistical reason and common sense, in addition to the vaccine approval process and medical safeguards.

Anyone pushing this on kids should be stripped of their job.

And before someone says that is extreme - we have normalized firing people for not taking the jab, so it is apparently perfectly fine.
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ORAggieFan
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2:39p, 10/27/21

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petebaker
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2:50p, 10/29/21

By
Suzi Ring
October 28, 2021, 11:00 AM CDT
  • Study found similar peak viral load with or without shots
  • Immunized household contacts have a 25% chance of infection
LISTEN TO ARTICLE


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In this article
[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/0140739D:LN][/url]0140739D
[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/0140739D:LN][/url]IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON
[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/0140739D:LN][/url]Private Company
[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/0140739D:LN][/url]

People inoculated against Covid-19 are just as likely to spread the delta variant of the virus to contacts in their household as those who haven't had shots, according to new research.
In a yearlong study of 621 people in the U.K. with mild Covid-19, scientists found that their peak viral load was similar regardless of vaccination status, according to a paper published Thursday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases medical journal. The analysis also found that 25% of vaccinated household contacts still contracted the disease from an index case, while 38% of those who hadn't had shots became infected.

The results go some way toward explaining why the delta variant is so infectious even in nations with successful vaccine rollouts, and why the unvaccinated can't assume they are protected because others have had shots. Those who were inoculated cleared the virus more quickly and had milder cases, while unvaccinated household members were more likely to suffer from severe disease and hospitalization.
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"Our findings show that vaccination alone is not enough to prevent people from being infected with the delta variant and spreading it in household settings," said Ajit Lalvani, a professor of infectious diseases at Imperial College London who co-led the study. "The ongoing transmission we are seeing between vaccinated people makes it essential for unvaccinated people to get vaccinated to protect themselves."

Vaccination was found to reduce household transmission of the alpha variant -- first discovered in the U.K. in late 2020 -- by between 40% and 50%, and infected vaccinated individuals had a lower viral load in the upper respiratory tract than those who hadn't had shots. The delta variant has been the dominant strain globally for some time, however.

[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/prognosis?in_source=postr_index][/url]
More from
[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/prognosis?in_source=postr_index][/url]

[url=https://www.bloomberg.com/prognosis?in_source=postr_index][/url]
FDA Backs Shots for Kids; Russia's Deadly Month: Virus Update
Pfizer Shot Cleared for Kids 5 to 11 in Pandemic Milestone
U.S. Spies Say Covid-19's Origins Will Remain Unclear Without China's Help
The Tiny Pacific Island Nation of Tonga Has Had No Covid, Until Now
The research also showed that immunity from full vaccination waned in as little as three months. The authors said there wasn't enough data to advise on whether this should lead to a change in the U.K.'s booster policy, where third doses are currently being offered to older and more vulnerable people six months after their second shot.
Six months was an arbitrary time period chosen following early data from Israel on the effectiveness of boosters, but there is no reason to believe they would be less effective if given earlier, said Neil Ferguson, an epidemiologist at Imperial College London and investigator on the study, at a press briefing Thursday.
The booster program could help halt the virus, as extra shots or repeated infections tend to lead to longer immunological memory, potentially protecting people for up to a year, Lalvani said. More data are needed to confirm this, he said.
The authors didn't analyze infections based on the type of vaccines people had received. Maria Zambon, head of influenza and respiratory virology at the U.K. Health Security Agency, noted that there are still more than 300 vaccines in development, and said it's possible that future generations of shots may be better at preventing transmission.
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Hullabaloo91
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3:01p, 10/29/21
AG
Do the doctors on this board think this a good idea, vaccinating healthy 5-11 year olds? If so, what is your justification?
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TChaney
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3:37p, 10/29/21
I'm going to throw this out there.

I am not in any way a medical professional but you should be aware of this info.

We have heard of side effects causing heart conditions and death among all age groups from the vaccine, while these numbers are small they do happen. There is one logical hypothesis floating around.

Deadly side effects could be caused by improper injection into the bloodstream vs the muscle tissue.

If you do decide to have your child vaccinated (or get it yourself) ask the person giving the shot to aspirate the needle before injection. There is some debate on the need for this. If blood does come back into the needle it is in a blood vessel and should be discarded and they should try again.

Pinching the injection site can increase the odds this will happen.






I have left out my personal opinions on the matter.
Many of you on this forum will jump at the chance to get your child vaccinated and nothing said here will stop you.
At a bare minimum confirm it is being done correctly.


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samurai_science
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4:05p, 10/29/21
Your child is more at risk riding in a car



Drs Ioannidis & Axfors at Stanford

Age Infection Survival Rate
0-19 99.9973%
20-29 99.986%
30-39 99.969%
40-49 99.918%
50-59 99.73%
60-69 99.41%
70+ 97.6% (non-inst.)
70+ 94.5% (all)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260210v1
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tysker
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In reply to samurai_science • 4:23p, 10/29/21
AG
baron_von_awesome said:
Your child is more at risk riding in a car
Especially since the pandemic:
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/be-careful-out-there-traffic-deaths-have-surged-in-2021/

I have been wondering for months how much unemployment, WFH/work-from-anywhere, and airline travel issues have affected traffic patterns, driving conditions and habits.
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Marcus Brutus
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In reply to L7 WEENIE • 4:23p, 10/29/21
Ryota Hayami said:
Aggie_Boomin 21 said:
Odd thing to celebrate…

Doesn't mean you have to be upset about it either, but just really strange to get that much glee out of this.




I'm just excited for the health and safety of my kid and his good friend who has health issues and will probably be able to go to school in person now.

So I think for parents who choose to get the vaccination for their kids and especially for parents of kids who are at risk it is something to celebrate.

It will help get our schools back to normal with less restrictions.

This isnt political, it's just about health, safety and getting back to normal!


Lol
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Marcus Brutus
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In reply to gunan01 • 4:25p, 10/29/21
gunan01 said:



Thumbs up for unscientific idiocy.
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