No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate. Eventually, enough humans will get the multitude of variants and our immune systems will recognize it and it will be come a common cold.

That's the end game even though the Fauci's and Walensky's won't tell you the truth.

Assuming you are healthy, you want to be infected and develop natural immunity.

Diet Cokehead said:

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No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate. Eventually, enough humans will get the multitude of variants and our immune systems will recognize it and it will be come a common cold.

That's the end game even though the Fauci's and Walensky's won't tell you the truth.

Assuming you are healthy, you want to be infected and develop natural immunity.

---

Totally false.

The vaccines are excellent vaccines. There are zero vaccines in existence for any disease where antibodies don't want over time (same is true for antibodies from an infection). If your antibodies just kept on building an building with no drop off, you would be in serious trouble as a human being.

The only thing better than the existing vaccines wouldbe a pan corona virus vaccine, that is generally effective against any manifestation of a corona virus (covid, oc43, variations of both, future coronas, etc). This is currently being researched, as are pan influenza vaccines.

CS78 said:

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Is what we have now the best we can hope for? Any chance that something can be developed to actually stop the spread and shut it down?

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What makes you say this isn't a "true vaccine"? What do you mean by that?



I assume you know there can be breakthrough cases with any vaccine, including polio, measles, etc, right?


The polio vaccine takes three doses for adults and four for kids to get close to 100% immunity.

The CDC says one dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.

Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps.

We rarely see those diseases because almost everyone has been vaccinated for them, but if only half or less than half of the country wasn't vaccinated, I promise you we'd see a lot more cases.

Diyala Nick said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate. Eventually, enough humans will get the multitude of variants and our immune systems will recognize it and it will be come a common cold.

That's the end game even though the Fauci's and Walensky's won't tell you the truth.

Assuming you are healthy, you want to be infected and develop natural immunity.

---

Totally false.

The vaccines are excellent vaccines. There are zero vaccines in existence for any disease where antibodies don't want over time (same is true for antibodies from an infection). If your antibodies just kept on building an building with no drop off, you would be in serious trouble as a human being.

The only thing better than the existing vaccines wouldbe a pan corona virus vaccine, that is generally effective against any manifestation of a corona virus (covid, oc43, variations of both, future coronas, etc). This is currently being researched, as are pan influenza vaccines.

---

I'll go ahead and believe what my doctor told me which is what i posted above. Covid cannot be vaccinated out of existence. It will become an endemic minor cold eventually (which is what it is for the majority of us already).

Diet Cokehead said:

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No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate. Eventually, enough humans will get the multitude of variants and our immune systems will recognize it and it will be come a common cold.

That's the end game even though the Fauci's and Walensky's won't tell you the truth.

Assuming you are healthy, you want to be infected and develop natural immunity.

---

I don't understand what having animal reservoirs has to do with whether a vaccine works or not, can you explain?

I mean, there are lots of diseases that have both human and animal reservoirs and we've got vaccines for many of them. Rabies comes to mind…


I looked it up and found this article which lists many diseases with different types of reservoirs. It doesn't seem to have any effect on whether a vaccine is workable or not. Do you have a source for your info?

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section10.html

I'm not really sure what your argument is here. Having a vaccine that works doesn't mean he is wrong nor do I suspect that we lack a functioning vaccine was the argument being made.

GeographyAg said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate. Eventually, enough humans will get the multitude of variants and our immune systems will recognize it and it will be come a common cold.

That's the end game even though the Fauci's and Walensky's won't tell you the truth.

Assuming you are healthy, you want to be infected and develop natural immunity.

---

I don't understand what having animal reservoirs has to do with whether a vaccine works or not, can you explain?

I mean, there are lots of diseases that have both human and animal reservoirs and we've got vaccines for many of them. Rabies comes to mind…


I looked it up and found this article which lists many diseases with different types of reservoirs. It doesn't seem to have any effect on whether a vaccine is workable or not. Do you have a source for your info?

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section10.html

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Has rabies been eradicated?

Fenrir said:

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I'm not really sure what your argument is here. Having a vaccine that works doesn't mean he is wrong nor do I suspect that we lack a functioning vaccine was the argument being made.

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I'm not sure what you are referring to, since you didn't quote me, so I'll take a stab at it and you can be clearer if you wish to discuss something.

I asked questions about the OP's question.

Quote:

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Can a true vaccine be developed? Is what we have now the best we can hope for? Any chance that something can be developed to actually stop the spread and shut it down?

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OP said "true vaccine." I'd like to know what a "true vaccine" would look like to OP or anyone else who thinks what we have now is not a "true vaccine."

03_Aggie said:

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GeographyAg said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate. Eventually, enough humans will get the multitude of variants and our immune systems will recognize it and it will be come a common cold.

That's the end game even though the Fauci's and Walensky's won't tell you the truth.

Assuming you are healthy, you want to be infected and develop natural immunity.

---

I don't understand what having animal reservoirs has to do with whether a vaccine works or not, can you explain?

I mean, there are lots of diseases that have both human and animal reservoirs and we've got vaccines for many of them. Rabies comes to mind…


I looked it up and found this article which lists many diseases with different types of reservoirs. It doesn't seem to have any effect on whether a vaccine is workable or not. Do you have a source for your info?

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section10.html

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Has rabies been eradicated?

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Not completely, but it has certainly been strongly mitigated. We have a vaccine that works and works really well. You wouldn't want to face rabies without it, would you?

I'm not sure what point you're making. Could you explain what animal reservoirs have to do with whether a vaccine works or not?

GeographyAg said:

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Fenrir said:

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I'm not really sure what your argument is here. Having a vaccine that works doesn't mean he is wrong nor do I suspect that we lack a functioning vaccine was the argument being made.

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I'm not sure what you are referring to, since you didn't quote me, so I'll take a stab at it and you can be clearer if you wish to discuss something.

I asked questions about the OP's question.

Quote:

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Can a true vaccine be developed? Is what we have now the best we can hope for? Any chance that something can be developed to actually stop the spread and shut it down?

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OP said "true vaccine." I'd like to know what a "true vaccine" would look like to OP or anyone else who thinks what we have now is not a "true vaccine."

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Your reply in question wasn't to OP...the person you responded to said nothing of the sort.

If you're confused on which of your posts someone is responding to all you have to do is click where it says "in reply to". Not anyone else's fault if you don't understand basic functionality of the message board you're on.

Weird thread. The vaccines for Covid are a technological achievement on par with the moon landing.

Not sure what there is to argue about there.

I am hoping for better therapuetics as well. We need something that can stop/reverse the effects of the virus in those patients that start going down a bad path.

amercer said:

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Weird thread. The vaccines for Covid are a technological achievement on par with the moon landing.

Not sure what there is to argue about there.

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TChaney said:

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FbgTxAg said:

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amercer said:

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Weird thread. The vaccines for Covid are a technological achievement on par with the moon landing.

Not sure what there is to argue about there.

---

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I think the discovery of nuclear fission is probably a more accurate comparison.

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I'd buy that if you'd said "Cold Fusion."

Fenrir said:

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GeographyAg said:

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Fenrir said:

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I'm not really sure what your argument is here. Having a vaccine that works doesn't mean he is wrong nor do I suspect that we lack a functioning vaccine was the argument being made.

---

I'm not sure what you are referring to, since you didn't quote me, so I'll take a stab at it and you can be clearer if you wish to discuss something.

I asked questions about the OP's question.

Quote:

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Can a true vaccine be developed? Is what we have now the best we can hope for? Any chance that something can be developed to actually stop the spread and shut it down?

---

OP said "true vaccine." I'd like to know what a "true vaccine" would look like to OP or anyone else who thinks what we have now is not a "true vaccine."

---

Your reply in question wasn't to OP...the person you responded to said nothing of the sort.

If you're confused on which of your posts someone is responding to all you have to do is click where it says "in reply to". Not anyone else's fault if you don't understand basic functionality of the message board you're on.

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First, there is no need to be rude. I do understand the basic functionality of the message board that I'm on on. The problem I see is that you are not being clear. You seem to not understand what is going on in this thread.

Let me see if I can explain:

OP asked a question "Can a true vaccine be developed?"

I asked him some questions about what he means by a "true vaccine."

No one has answered that question yet.

Diet Cokehead said (in answer to OP's question):

Quote:

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No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate.

---

I take that to mean that Diet Cokehead thinks we can't have a "true vaccine" because covid has animal reservoirs. I asked what animal reservoirs have to do with a "true vaccine."

No one has answered that question yet, either.

Then you said,

Quote:

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I'm not really sure what your argument is here. Having a vaccine that works doesn't mean he is wrong nor do I suspect that we lack a functioning vaccine was the argument being made.

---

So let me explain my thinking:

1) I still don't know what the OP means by "true vaccine."

2) I still don't know what Diet Cokehead thinks "animal reservoirs" have to do with whether something is a "true vaccine" or not.


That's all I'm trying to ascertain.

It seems that Diet Cokehead and the OP are both thinking that the vaccine we have is not a "true vaccine" because it doesn't work 100% (or some percentage they have decided makes a "true vaccine" that has not yet been identified). I'd like to know what percentage of success something needs to be a "true vaccine."


I'm glad, however, that you agree that the Covid vaccine works. At least we can agree on that point.

Lol at ZeroHedge. Come on now. . .

It's pretty clear with context clues diet was responding to this

Quote:

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Any chance that something can be developed to actually stop the spread and shut it down?

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We have never created a vaccine capable of stopping a respiratory virus dead, any reasonable person would conclude that streak is likely to continue.

amercer said:

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Weird thread. The vaccines for Covid are a technological achievement on par with the moon landing.

Not sure what there is to argue about there.

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The latest talking point is that these aren't real vaccines because they aren't 100% effective at stopping spread and disease.

FbgTxAg said:

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Diyala Nick said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate. Eventually, enough humans will get the multitude of variants and our immune systems will recognize it and it will be come a common cold.

That's the end game even though the Fauci's and Walensky's won't tell you the truth.

Assuming you are healthy, you want to be infected and develop natural immunity.

---

Totally false.

The vaccines are excellent vaccines. There are zero vaccines in existence for any disease where antibodies don't want over time (same is true for antibodies from an infection). If your antibodies just kept on building an building with no drop off, you would be in serious trouble as a human being.

The only thing better than the existing vaccines wouldbe a pan corona virus vaccine, that is generally effective against any manifestation of a corona virus (covid, oc43, variations of both, future coronas, etc). This is currently being researched, as are pan influenza vaccines.

---

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/immunity-service-snake-oil-salesmen-covid-zero-con

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If zerohedge is your source for any scientific or medical data, well.......

Also, a "pan" vaccine of any sort implies that it would be durable against most or all types of a virus of a given family, be it corona, influenza, zoster, or something else. The implication here is that with a prime and a booster or two, you could create a high degree or lifelong imunity that would not require furher boosters, new vaccines, or anything else, even as variants or novel pathogens emerge.

Or you can stick with conspiracy theories. Whatever works for you.

CS78 said:

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Is what we have now the best we can hope for? Any chance that something can be developed to actually stop the spread and shut it down?

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It's not hard to spot a Fox News watcher. But seriously, this mRNA vaccine is the product is decades of research. And it's working.

Wow, seems arguing is a sport for you people.

I just personally know a lot of people that have gotten the vaccine that are still getting sick. I don't know the ins and outs but was wondering if we can hope for this to ever be like all the other diseases that history has defeated.

CS78 said:

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Wow, seems arguing is a sport for you people.

I just personally know a lot of people that have gotten the vaccine that are still getting sick. I don't know the ins and outs but was wondering if we can hope for this to ever be like all the other diseases that history has defeated.

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I'm not trying to argue for sport. I honestly was trying to understand the point you were trying to make. I was asking an honest question: How do you define a "true vaccine"?

The main point I guess I feel like you need to understand is that all vaccines have a failure rate, and that herd immunity (the point at which we begin to help others avoid the disease) is achieved by a combo of vaccination and natural immunity.

Breakthrough cases of covid come even with natural immunity, btw, which is one reason some people are saying that it's good to get at least one dose of a vaccine on top of a previous infection. Together those seem to give the best possible protection against further infection.


Here's an article that has great links to studies you can read to see how other vaccines have worked, and how the covid vaccine is doing in comparison:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/

Quote:

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For most of vaccination history, humans have been guided by stopping sickness, and that's been enough. The smallpox vaccine wasn't sterilizing; it still helped us eradicate a pathogen. Even measles, a virus that's much more contagious than SARS-CoV-2, can offer an optimistic example. Some people do end up getting infected after vaccination. But the vaccine has, in the decades since its premiere, largely driven measles into the ground in the United States, apart from recent outbreaks largely linked to low immunization rates. And the few immunized people who do fall ill tend to get what's called "modified" measles, which isn't "as bad as usual," Griffin told me.

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Anecdotally, I had an interesting situation recently. Two friends of mine both got covid at the same time. Friend 1 is in her 60s and vaccinated. She got covid after spending all day with a friend who turned up C+ the next day. Her covid symptoms were very mild - runny nose, light cough. She went ahead and stayed in 10 days, though her symptoms were gone after 3-4. (She's retired, so no work missed.)

Friend 2 is in her 50s and unvaccinated. She's not sure exactly where she got covid. At first she said her symptoms were mild, but after the second day she was in bed and sounded terrible every time I talked to her - zero energy, runny nose, terrible cough. It's been a month now, and she's finally back at work after 2 weeks off and mostly in bed. She honestly still sounds pretty bad, with a cough and nasal issues, but she's at least able to be up and about enough to get some work done.

It seems to me that the vaccine did its job for my older friend. I know she appreciated not having the terrible cough and shortness of breath so many her age experience.

I think the OP is asking a very clear question.

Is the Covid vaccine just another flu shot? Side effects can be worse than the disease for some, usually reduces the actual illness, and doesn't actually prevent you from catching and spreading the disease.

Will we have a polio level shot where you ask yourself, "what's polio?" in 3-4 years.

I don't think that people are pushing back because it may be a "series" of shots because we understand vaccines can take multiple doses. However NOTHING in the data shows that we are moving in that direction.

The medical community and our politicians have proven to me that my J&J shot is the most I will ever get. Had Covid anyway and threw away the vaccine card.

torrid said:

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My non-scientific opinion, a respiratory virus just spreads too easily. It mutates too quickly to stay ahead of the vaccines, and COVID will not be eliminated the way other diseases have.

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You do know that Measles is a respiratory virus, right?

torrid said:

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My non-scientific opinion, a respiratory virus just spreads too easily. It mutates too quickly to stay ahead of the vaccines, and COVID will not be eliminated the way other diseases have.

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Polio
Measles
Smallpox
Chicken Pox

All respiratory viruses essentially eliminated through vaccines.

fightingfarmer09 said:

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I picked the most obvious vaccinations that common people have been using as benchmarks for the last 2 years.

The most prominent vaccination in daily life is the least effective, perhaps that is why people question the current strategy.

But the two represent the question well.

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I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

I meant you picked the least effective COVID Vaccine available. It's the one most likely to still allow a breakthrough infection, and then you seem surprised that you got Covid. That's what I find interesting.

fightingfarmer09 said:

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I picked the one with a single shot that allowed me to return to large scale travel.

I'm young healthy and still caught Covid afterwords.

The office all received moderna and Covid cut thru their office like a hot knife thru butter. Two hospitalized.

I think the J&J did great.

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Ah. You edited. That makes a bit more sense.

It's still interesting.


I picked Pfizer and haven't gotten sick yet, though I won't be surprised. It's not a force field around us, and the delta strain is pretty virulent. I'm actually surprised I haven't gotten it but I don't work in close quarters or anything.