Can a true vaccine be developed?

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Infection_Ag11
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In reply to redsquirrelAG • 12:06a, 9/30/21
AG
redsquirrelAG said:
Comparing Polio and Covid.


The overall morality of polio in children who contract the disease is around 0.02%, or 1 in 5,000. Only 1/200 people who get polio developed paralytic polio, and only 3-4% of those people die.

The perception that polio is a high morality illness is probably the greatest misconception in the history of medicine.
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eric76
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In reply to GeographyAg • 11:47a, 9/30/21
AG
GeographyAg said:
03_Aggie said:
GeographyAg said:
Diet Cokehead said:
No, because Covid has animal reservoirs which will allow it to continue to mutate. Eventually, enough humans will get the multitude of variants and our immune systems will recognize it and it will be come a common cold.

That's the end game even though the Fauci's and Walensky's won't tell you the truth.

Assuming you are healthy, you want to be infected and develop natural immunity.


I don't understand what having animal reservoirs has to do with whether a vaccine works or not, can you explain?

I mean, there are lots of diseases that have both human and animal reservoirs and we've got vaccines for many of them. Rabies comes to mind…


I looked it up and found this article which lists many diseases with different types of reservoirs. It doesn't seem to have any effect on whether a vaccine is workable or not. Do you have a source for your info?

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section10.html



Has rabies been eradicated?
Not completely, but it has certainly been strongly mitigated. We have a vaccine that works and works really well. You wouldn't want to face rabies without it, would you?

I'm not sure what point you're making. Could you explain what animal reservoirs have to do with whether a vaccine works or not?
Worldwide, something like 40,000 or more human deaths per year from rabies. I wouldn't call that "strongly mitigated".

By the way, there was a recent death of someone who had been exposed to rabies and who declined the vaccine.

One thing to know about rabies -- if you have been exposed to rabies, you get vaccinated again even if you have been previously vaccinated. Having been vaccinated does mean that you don't get treated with HRIG (Human Rabies Immune Globulin).

I have read that those who work in rabies laboratories -- for example, the state labs that examine specimens to check for the presence of rabies -- have their blood titres tested on a regular basis and if the antibody count falls too low, they must be vaccinated yet again. Also, if they develop some kind of allergy to the vaccine, they are not allowed to continue to work in the lab because of the danger.

As for the animal reservoirs, if a disease mutates in an animal reservoir, it could conceivably change the features that the antibodies react to and so they no longer work.
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Duncan Idaho
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In reply to Infection_Ag11 • 11:53a, 9/30/21
So 2-3% of 1/200 means that if everyone in the country got polio, we would only have 33,000-45,000 deaths.


Based on these numbers it is ridiculous to compare covid (at least 700,000 deaths) to polio (max of 45,000 deaths )
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eric76
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In reply to GeographyAg • 12:05p, 9/30/21
AG
GeographyAg said:
redsquirrelAG said:
Comparing Polio and Covid.
Let's get this straight. Nobody NOBODY here thinks covid is polio.

The point, because you clearly missed it, is that the polio vaccine had breakthrough cases, but it is still a TRUE VACCINE.

The measles vaccine had breakthrough cases, but it is still a True Vaccine.

The smallpox vaccine had breakthrough cases, but it is still a True Vaccine.


Likewise, the covid vaccine is a True Vaccine, despite the breakthrough cases.




It's actually the anti-vaxxers that compare polio and covid and then say, covid is nothing and nobody needs the vaccine and you're stupid or gullible and anti-American for wanting to take the vaccine to protect yourself from it.
Also, polio was far more widespread than covid. Nearly everyone had polio as a child but it was more like a cold, at worst, for the vast majority with a small risk of complications and a small risk of death.

When the polio vaccine became available, in some places the upper age limit to get the vaccine was 5 years or so because it was assumed that if you were 5 years old, you already had polio even if you never showed any sign of being ill.
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Jabin
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In reply to eric76 • 12:26p, 9/30/21
Despite growing up at the very end of the polio era, I did not know that. Very interesting.
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Rev03
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12:32p, 9/30/21
AG
I have found the comparisons to polio pretty interesting. My mother in law had polio as a child. I believe she was out from school for a bit recovering but not in an iron lung or at risk of death. She recovered and lived a normal, active life (traveled a lot), but in her early 40s, discovered muscle weakness and was diagnosed with post-polio syndrome. The post-polio has progressed over time and she is now in her early 80s in a skilled nursing facility, because she is disabled and needs help with daily living (she needs a hoyer lift to get her in and out of bed and can't go to the bathroom). She also had multiple miscarriages before finally having one kid - this very well could be completely unrelated to polio or post-polio, but something I wonder about. It is a bit sad, because if she hadn't had polio as a child, I don't think she'd be in skilled nursing right now. I always find it interesting when people talk about the unknown long-term effects of vaccines, but don't seem to put the same consideration in possible long-term effects of the actual illness.
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eric76
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In reply to Rev03 • 1:52p, 9/30/21
AG
Rev03 said:
I have found the comparisons to polio pretty interesting. My mother in law had polio as a child. I believe she was out from school for a bit recovering but not in an iron lung or at risk of death. She recovered and lived a normal, active life (traveled a lot), but in her early 40s, discovered muscle weakness and was diagnosed with post-polio syndrome. The post-polio has progressed over time and she is now in her early 80s in a skilled nursing facility, because she is disabled and needs help with daily living (she needs a hoyer lift to get her in and out of bed and can't go to the bathroom). She also had multiple miscarriages before finally having one kid - this very well could be completely unrelated to polio or post-polio, but something I wonder about. It is a bit sad, because if she hadn't had polio as a child, I don't think she'd be in skilled nursing right now. I always find it interesting when people talk about the unknown long-term effects of vaccines, but don't seem to put the same consideration in possible long-term effects of the actual illness.
I have heard of the post-polio syndrome but never knew anything about it. I was wondering if it progressed.

Back in the 50s and before, I don't know that anyone ever took a stance against worrying about polio because of their political convictions. It was a scary disease and the vaccines were greatly welcomed.
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petebaker
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2:43p, 10/8/21

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WesMaroon&White
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3:02p, 10/8/21
AG
https://fortune.com/2021/09/28/singapore-covid-reopening-record-cases-vaccines/

But the city's high vaccination rate is keeping people from suffering the worst effects of the virus. Authorities said on Sunday that 98% of people infected in the last 28 days have recorded mild or no symptoms of COVID-19. Singapore is discovering asymptomatic cases by testing close contacts of infected individuals. Kenneth Mak, Singapore's director of medical services, told Singapore's Straits Times last week that the vaccinated in Singapore have been 12 times less likely to die or require hospitalization than the unvaccinated.

In Singapore, and elsewhere, Delta-driven outbreaks are leading to higher rates of breakthrough infections among the vaccinated. But such infections are not necessarily a cause for concern due to the protection from severe disease and death that vaccines offer.


I guess the level to get to herd immunity will be upped with delta variant.
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torrid
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7:12p, 10/8/21
AG
Even if they could, it's certainly not going to be the first thing the churn out at the height of the pandemic.
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