Every ICU in Texas is Full

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Old Buffalo
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In reply to Charpie • 10:00a, 9/13/21
AG
Again, the Texas DSHS showed roughly 360 beds available, an improvement of roughly 30 beds over the prior day.

We are not disagreeing with the fact that ICU transfers are problematic, we are pushing back on the narrative "Every ICU bed in Texas is full" because the data doesn't back that up. Even if the data is wrong, what is the probability that a movement of 30 beds on average suddenly changes to 360 overnight? Likely very low.

The blind faith we have in anecdotes versus consensus data is shocking.
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GeographyAg
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In reply to ORAggieFan • 10:05a, 9/13/21
AG
ORAggieFan said:
GeographyAg said:
Phat32 said:
Quote:
Just like the unvaccinated scream/think "my immune system" is better. Well, history has shown the human immune system, while amazing, usually left people dead by 40 until vaccines and other modern medical advances came about.


Not to derail, but these things improved life expectancy far more than vaccines:
- availability of clean water
- improvements in living conditions
- improvements in personal hygiene

Vaccines are available in the developing world but those 3 are not, and life expectancies remain relatively low.

Not disputing that they helped, but they're not the single or even most important reason for life expectancy increases.


You definitely are derailing, and with full-fledged anti-vaccine propaganda. I recognize those arguments from all the years I've dealt with it.

Tell me this: How is it we have basically gotten rid of polio world-wide? What about smallpox? Cowpox? Are the cows using good personal hygiene?

I'm extreme pro vaccine, but those are not good comparisons. We've never eradicated a respiring virus via vaccine and we won't with this one. But, we should still get the vaccine as it's benefits are obvious.



I was ONLY responding to the Long-Used Anti-Vaccine-Propaganda Claim that it is improved hygiene that has eradicated diseases , not vaccines. That was the basis of the claim that person made, and that is what is erroneous.

As far as eradicating a virus, you are correct, we have not. Not yet, but it is completely undeniable that vaccines help our bodies fight diseases. That's what they're for.
If I’m posting, it’s actually Mrs GeographyAg.
Mr. GeographyAg is a dedicated lurker.
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htxag09
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10:06a, 9/13/21
AG
So how can we make any data driven decisions if the data is just completely wrong? That's honestly been my biggest gripe during all this. We're counting deaths 6 months after they happen, cases weeks after, etc. The data absolutely means nothing.

Early in this, we were supposedly overwhelmed so cities built temporary hospitals that never saw a single patient. Med centers were coming out and saying to relax, we have plenty of capacity. Now, it's the opposite. Maybe if every ICU metric didn't show capacity we'd have brought in more traveling healthcare providers, now built these temporary hospitals vs. wasting millions of dollars a year ago, etc.

You really can't get mad at the general public for being skeptical when the data hospitals are giving them indicate otherwise. It's completely unacceptable, IMO, that this country's hospital systems have such **** data when in the spotlight and under a magnifying glass.
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Charpie
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In reply to GAC06 • 10:10a, 9/13/21
AG
I did. The numbers were updated on 9/9.

The chart is pretty clear that it's average hospitalizations from 8/30-9/5. That is the last bar graph at the end of the chart.

Today is 9/13. The op posted this thread last night night at 9:55pm on 9/12.

The numbers CAN be true at the time.

The doc CAN be right at the time.
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ORAggieFan
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10:12a, 9/13/21
If one can't get a patient needing ICU into an ICU why argue over the semantics of availability. What good does bed availability do if one can't get into it?
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GAC06
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In reply to Charpie • 10:15a, 9/13/21
AG
Charpie said:
I did. The numbers were updated on 9/9.

The chart is pretty clear that it's average hospitalizations from 8/30-9/5. That is the last bar graph at the end of the chart.

Today is 9/13. The op posted this thread last night night at 9:55pm on 9/12.

The numbers CAN be true at the time.

The doc CAN be right at the time.


I guess you missed the ICU capacity chart dated Sept 12. Because that's what we are discussing.
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aggiemike02
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In reply to GAC06 • 10:16a, 9/13/21
AG
yes I do. you're great efforts to defend yours are remarkable.
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tysker
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10:18a, 9/13/21
AG
Are we allowed to ask if all of the covid patients really need ICU-level care?
Isn't there a less intensive (and less expensive!) way to get these patients the care they need? Or are these patients just levels more ill than they were 18 months ago?
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cone
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In reply to Old Buffalo • 10:18a, 9/13/21
AG
question

you're in Houston and go to a freestanding for something emergent and you end up needing transfer to an actual hospital bed

they find you an open bed in Lubbock and they'll arrange transport to that bed

are all the beds filled? I guess not.
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Charpie
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In reply to GAC06 • 10:19a, 9/13/21
AG
The one that says, "CAN" all over it? Just because something says can doesn't be it WILL happen.

There could be lots of reasons why those beds could be staffed. Also, if you read the top of the slide, it's pretty clear that it can change. "This capacity is actively managed by each of the hospitals and changes on a minute by minute basis. So perhaps those beds filled up as the day went on yesterday.
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GAC06
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In reply to Charpie • 10:22a, 9/13/21
AG
Please just reread what you posted and ask if that sounds remotely reasonable. Was there a mass casualty event last night I missed? Literally hundreds of beds were filled overnight after a decreasing trend?
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tysker
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10:29a, 9/13/21
AG
That graphic reads like ICU beds are not at 100% usage even in TMC which negates what OP stated? What I am not understanding?
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Charpie
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In reply to GAC06 • 10:29a, 9/13/21
AG
If you want to keep playing tit for tat, there really is no reason to do so with me. We have no idea what might have happened, or what might be going on. For instance, there could been a staff shortage...or that today might be a different story regarding beds? That's why I'm all about real time data so people can stop arguing or calling people liars. We don't want to believe a doc who keeps asking for help in finding beds. I'm not sure why he would lie about something like that, and come to this board and get eviscerated by some of y'all. He likely did call TMC and got a "no we don't have beds right now."


ramblin_ag02 - Good luck to you. I do not envy your position.
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GAC06
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In reply to aggiemike02 • 10:30a, 9/13/21
AG
aggiemike02 said:
yes I do. you're great efforts to defend yours are remarkable.


Ok, I'll overlook the infantile nature of your posts and the terrible grammar that go with them. What specifically do you think I'm defending?
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Windy City Ag
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10:32a, 9/13/21
AG
Article on the same topic from a week ago.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/wait-time-hospital-bed-texas-medical-center/285-d4b8144a-4565-49f5-8d92-52583aa0ba02

Quote:
Kavanaugh is the Chief Nursing Officer at Texas Emergency Hospital in Cleveland. She said her staff has been calling 50 hospitals a day trying to transfer patients. They don't have an intensive care unit, which is what many need right now. Unfortunately, the answer on the other end of the phone is almost always no. They've been forced to transfer several patients out of state for care.

Many hospitals in the Texas Medical Center aren't accepting transfers because they're saturated with COVID-19 patients, too.

Currently, at Houston Methodist, 200 patients are in the ER waiting for hospital beds to open up.
"(The wait) can be between six hours to six days. We've had many patients waiting, but they're getting treatment while they're waiting," Dr. Ben Saldana said.
Saldana is the Director of the ER at Houston Methodist.

I told them to call GAC since he knows the real story and can sort it all for them.
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GAC06
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In reply to Charpie • 10:33a, 9/13/21
AG
Charpie said:
If you want to keep playing tit for tat, there really is no reason to do so with me. We have no idea what might have happened, or what might be going on. For instance, there could been a staff shortage...or that today might be a different story regarding beds? That's why I'm all about real time data so people can stop arguing or calling people liars. We don't want to believe a doc who keeps asking for help in finding beds. I'm not sure why he would lie about something like that, and come to this board and get eviscerated by some of y'all. He likely did call TMC and got a "no we don't have beds right now."


ramblin_ag02 - Good luck to you. I do not envy your position.


Do you think that "every ICU in Texas is full"?

You're going to some lengths, including attacking me to defend that statement. Why?
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htxag09
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In reply to Charpie • 10:33a, 9/13/21
AG
I'm on your side of this. I believe the doctors posting that ICU's are full.

But the data is crap. And there really isn't any excuse as to why the data is crap. Lot's of businesses out there are managing exponentially more complex data and doing so more efficiently. Also, the hospitals' messaging is crap.
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Charpie
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In reply to htxag09 • 10:34a, 9/13/21
AG
I totally agree. I can find you a specific car for sale rather easily, yet we are stuck with calling hospitals for ICU beds??

Someone give me money to create api's to make this data available.
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tysker
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In reply to htxag09 • 10:37a, 9/13/21
AG
htxag09 said:
I'm on your side of this. I believe the doctors posting that ICU's are full.

But the data is crap. And there really isn't any excuse as to why the data is crap. Lot's of businesses out there are managing exponentially more complex data and doing so more efficiently. Also, the hospitals' messaging is crap.
Of course the data is sketchy. Are they going to blame staffing issues for lack of ICU beds?
It's hard enough to get the airlines to admit they have staffing and logistical issues and those problems only result in delay of time.
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Old RV Ag
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In reply to tysker • 10:40a, 9/13/21
AG
tysker said:
htxag09 said:
I'm on your side of this. I believe the doctors posting that ICU's are full.

But the data is crap. And there really isn't any excuse as to why the data is crap. Lot's of businesses out there are managing exponentially more complex data and doing so more efficiently. Also, the hospitals' messaging is crap.
Of course the data is sketchy. Are they going to blame staffing issues for lack of ICU beds?
It's hard enough to get the airlines to admit they have staffing and logistical issues and those only problems only result in delay of time.
Careful, GAC is a pilot so he'll take offense to that and defend airlines, who we all know report data very accurately!
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tysker
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In reply to Old RV Ag • 10:53a, 9/13/21
AG
Old RV Ag said:
tysker said:
htxag09 said:
I'm on your side of this. I believe the doctors posting that ICU's are full.

But the data is crap. And there really isn't any excuse as to why the data is crap. Lot's of businesses out there are managing exponentially more complex data and doing so more efficiently. Also, the hospitals' messaging is crap.
Of course the data is sketchy. Are they going to blame staffing issues for lack of ICU beds?
It's hard enough to get the airlines to admit they have staffing and logistical issues and those only problems only result in delay of time.
Careful, GAC is a pilot so he'll take offense to that and defend airlines, who we all know report data very accurately!
But do airlines, pilots, flight attendants blame their passengers the way hospital admin, doctors, and nurses seem to blame their patients? (I guess they kinda do in terms of overhead baggage and loading the plane.)
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Bruce Almighty
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11:24a, 9/13/21
AG
The same posters that say the ICU data from the hospitals are 100% accurate are the same ones that say hospitals lie about Covid deaths.
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Get Off My Lawn
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11:34a, 9/13/21
Whether hospital beds are FULL or "full," a capacity that impacts the ability to treat patients is a concern.

What I'd like to see is a full breakdown of
A. Top line: total beds that COULD be provided with current facilities.
B. Staffed beds currently available
C. Beds in use. Stacked on that: unrealized demand of patients who would be in beds if they were available.
D. Patient breakdown for the root cause reason that they're in the ICU (i.e. Covid caused pneumonia = Covid while heart attack followed by a Covid positive test = heart disease)
E. Then of the Covid root cause segment, I'd like to see a further breakdown of comorbitities, age, vaccination / reinfection status, and citizenship.

I get that this data would be tough to compile accurately, but without an accurate perspective it's impossible to draw accurate conclusions. (Ex. an RSV outbreak among kids was a much more serious issue in pediatric ICUs recently - but partial data was used to obfuscate that and aim the blame at Covid on the local news.)
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Jabin
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In reply to GAC06 • 11:49a, 9/13/21
Quote:
You're going to some lengths, including attacking me to defend that statement.
Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You called the doc on here a liar at least twice. You didn't merely say that he was mistaken; you said he was lying.

Your lack of self-awareness is astounding.
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Jabin
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In reply to Old Buffalo • 11:53a, 9/13/21
Quote:
The blind faith we have in anecdotes versus consensus data is shocking.
Yet you trust anecdotes over consensus data when it comes to ivermectin.

Strange.
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GAC06
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In reply to Jabin • 11:59a, 9/13/21
AG
Jabin said:
Quote:
You're going to some lengths, including attacking me to defend that statement.
Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You called the doc on here a liar at least twice. You didn't merely say that he was mistaken; you said he was lying.

Your lack of self-awareness is astounding.


You are lying. I said his statement that "every ICU in Texas is full" is false. Because it is false.
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to GAC06 • 12:02p, 9/13/21
AG
Quote:
You are lying. I said his statement that "every ICU in Texas is full" is false. Because it is false.
Except that every ICU in Texas specifically told us they are full. We've called 43 different ones across the entire state starting last Wednesday. Every day we get the same story. We have someone whose full time job right now is calling ICUs.

So you can throw as many graphs up as you want. The people taking transfers are telling us something different, and graphs don't get my patients into ICUs.

Out of all the people saying I'm lying or mistaken or hysterical, not one has provided a contact to any of these ICUs with beds so I can transfer my patients. It's super easy to prove me wrong. Find a couple open beds so I can send my patients there.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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aggiemike02
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In reply to GAC06 • 12:04p, 9/13/21
AG
I'm sorry. I know it's exhausting.
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GAC06
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 12:05p, 9/13/21
AG
And like I said before, I believe you. That sucks and I hope it changes soon. It also doesn't mean that every ICU is full.
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Jabin
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In reply to GAC06 • 12:05p, 9/13/21
GAC06 said:
Jabin said:
Quote:
You're going to some lengths, including attacking me to defend that statement.
Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You called the doc on here a liar at least twice. You didn't merely say that he was mistaken; you said he was lying.

Your lack of self-awareness is astounding.


You are lying. I said his statement that "every ICU in Texas is full" is false. Because it is false.
OK, I stand corrected, sort of. You said that Dr. ramblin_ag02 "made a false claim", not that he was mistaken. A "false claim" is a euphemism for lying.
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czechy91
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In reply to Get Off My Lawn • 12:15p, 9/13/21
AG
Get Off My Lawn said:
Whether hospital beds are FULL or "full," a capacity that impacts the ability to treat patients is a concern.

What I'd like to see is a full breakdown of
A. Top line: total beds that COULD be provided with current facilities.
B. Staffed beds currently available
C. Beds in use. Stacked on that: unrealized demand of patients who would be in beds if they were available.
D. Patient breakdown for the root cause reason that they're in the ICU (i.e. Covid caused pneumonia = Covid while heart attack followed by a Covid positive test = heart disease)
E. Then of the Covid root cause segment, I'd like to see a further breakdown of comorbitities, age, vaccination / reinfection status, and citizenship.

I get that this data would be tough to compile accurately, but without an accurate perspective it's impossible to draw accurate conclusions. (Ex. an RSV outbreak among kids was a much more serious issue in pediatric ICUs recently - but partial data was used to obfuscate that and aim the blame at Covid on the local news.)
We all want to see information but that's not happening because those in charge are making calculated decisions not to collect/share data. CDC wants to approve boosters for Pfizer folks out 6 months but that's not happening because they are afraid of the messaging. Folks are wanting to know the US stats on breakthrough infections (type and date of vaccine, etc.) but that's not happening again for fear of messaging. Thus we are relying on data from Israel (all Pfizer) an thus have minimal info on Moderna and J&J. I blame the CDC but also the opposition who would try to use this data against vaccinations in general. These political shenanigans need to stop because they have no place in science. It's infuriating and only strengthens my distain for both political parties.
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Ranger222
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In reply to GAC06 • 12:19p, 9/13/21
AG
GAC06 said:
Jabin said:
Quote:
You're going to some lengths, including attacking me to defend that statement.
Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You called the doc on here a liar at least twice. You didn't merely say that he was mistaken; you said he was lying.

Your lack of self-awareness is astounding.


You are lying. I said his statement that "every ICU in Texas is full" is false. Because it is false.

It's clear the entire point is lost on you.

PEOPLE CAN NOT GET THE REGULAR STANDARD OF CARE. Who the **** cares if a graph is right or not? Medical professionals cannot treat cases that walk through the door like they normally would or able. People can not be transferred to better hospitals to treat their condition, COVID or not. Anybody that walks through an ER for any condition will not be treated the same as they normally would.

If you want to try and win some internet points to show you are correct, that **** doesn't matter. The fact remains, from MULTIPLE sources on this very thread, the healthcare system is currently not running like it is supposed to.

Having "one open bed because a chart says so" is not going to help the next soul that comes to a rural Texas hospital and thats the entire ****ing point.
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GAC06
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In reply to Ranger222 • 12:25p, 9/13/21
AG
Yes that's a crappy situation for the people and hospitals most affected. There's clearly an issue with transferring patients. But hyperbole doesn't help either. If every ICU in Texas were full we wouldn't need a caution about elective procedures, they'd be shut down.
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Old Buffalo
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In reply to Jabin • 12:32p, 9/13/21
AG
That's a strawman, but whatever. There are actual research studies on ivermectin and the drug has been in use for humans since the 1980s.

I'm also not here to argue about that. Take it to another thread.
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TxAg05
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12:35p, 9/13/21
AG
ICUs aren't 100% full, but the ability to transfer patients and get accepted at a hospital is extremely difficult. As I have said multiple times, hospitals that do have open ICU beds have to balance their daily projected influx of icu patients, standard downgrade of ICU patients, and then look at potentially accepting a transfer.

I think COVID has further demonstrated the divide in medical care and access based simply on location.
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