Myocarditis After Covid Vaccine

9,438 Views | 65 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by petebaker
fightingfarmer09
How long do you want to ignore this user?
KidDoc said:

https://www.kbtx.com/2021/09/20/pfizer-says-covid-19-vaccine-works-kids-ages-5-11/

Lower dose or novavax is going to be the answer for teens and kids when this is all done in a year or so.


Low dose or novavax, neither address the fact that the children are absolutely not at risk.

When are pediatricians going to stand up for their patients and parents and push back on this nonsense? And I'm not talking about quietly downplaying it in a private consultation, I mean joining with parents at the school board meetings.

It makes zero medical sense to vaccinate your average child.
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
fightingfarmer09 said:

KidDoc said:

https://www.kbtx.com/2021/09/20/pfizer-says-covid-19-vaccine-works-kids-ages-5-11/

Lower dose or novavax is going to be the answer for teens and kids when this is all done in a year or so.


Low dose or novavax, neither address the fact that the children are absolutely not at risk.

When are pediatricians going to stand up for their patients and parents and push back on this nonsense? And I'm not talking about quietly downplaying it in a private consultation, I mean joining with parents at the school board meetings.

It makes zero medical sense to vaccinate your average child.
I agree with you.

We don't stand up at school boards and such because cancel culture is a serious issue and most of us just want to take care of our patients and enjoy life versus getting verbally and socially abused.

I am very anxious to get an approved vaccine for my 5-11 year old patients with risk factors.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
PJYoung
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
KidDoc said:

tomtomdrumdrum said:

KidDoc said:

This is the kind of data I have been worried about seeing. In healthy teens I think the risk of current doses of mRNA vaccine equals or exceeds the risk of natural infection. No other country is pushing this age to get vaccine.

Now teens with any health issue at all, it is worth the low risk of myocarditis.
KidDoc, I've seen you post in a few threads saying the risk of vaccine-caused myocarditis in teens makes you think they shouldn't be vaccinated, and it seems like you're always comparing that risk to the risk of general hospitalization from covid.

Are you also considering the risk of covid-caused myocarditis? That seems like the more appropriate comparison. What numbers specifically are informing your opinion?

Also, what is the risk of teens with myocarditis being hospitalized? Maybe that's the better thing to compare against covid hospitalization rates. If it's not, I'm interested to know why.
Per the CDC 90% of the myocarditis due to vaccine are hospitalized and 23% have not yet recovered full cardiac function, this was reported by them in late August with roughly 2000 cases. It is hard to find any real data on the rate of myocarditis due to COVID infection although it is a well established complication. I am big on the "do no harm" part of being a physician and if a healthy teen is more likely to land in the hospital following vaccine relative to the actual infection then I'm not going to advise that vaccine.

It is VERY rare for a teen with no health risks to be hospitalized due to COVID, almost unheard of honestly.

I will be surprised if we don't see a modified dosing schedule for children and teens in the near future due to this dangerous adverse effect. It is why you haven't seen formal approval for young kids yet by the FDA. Efficacy is not the issue, adverse effects are an issue. There is a reason NO other country is vaccinating children at this time, doesn't that seem odd?

I haven't looked up any other countries but I knew Ireland was vaccinating kids.

Quote:

The Covid-19 vaccination programme in the Republic of Ireland is to be extended to include 12 to 15 year-olds.

The recommendation was made to the Irish government by the National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC).

Earlier, Taoiseach (Irish PM) Michel Martin said there would be further advice from the NIAC on the matter.

He said it represented a "significant opening up" of the vaccination programme to younger people.

Mr Martin said it had been a "very effective" programme to date and the government wanted to encourage "heightened participation" among the remaining age groups.

It is understood that it will take a number of days for the Health Service Executive (HSE) to get the system for vaccinating those from 12 to 15 up and running, as it will require parental consent and parents or guardians will have to be present for the jabs.
Aggie95
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Can people sue Pfizer now that it has full FDA approval?
traxter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Aggie95 said:

Can people sue Pfizer now that it has full FDA approval?
Don't think so. You've never been able to sue vaccine manufacturers for vaccines because there isn't a lot of money in vaccines compared with other drugs. Since we need vaccines, and they need to be affordable (can't have attorney/court fees priced into vaccines), there's a vaccine injury compensation program. Plus, if people wanted to sue Pfizer, for example, next time there's an even worse pandemic I think you'd be hard pressed to find drug makers willing to produce vaccines.

I think the more appropriate question would be if now that Pfizer has full FDA approval, if people can make claims via the regular vaccine injury program.
NewOldAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Isn't the Covid vaccine the most profitable in history?
traxter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
NewOldAg said:

Isn't the Covid vaccine the most profitable in history?
I dunno. Maybe? Don't think that really changes anything I said. If Pfizer ends up having to deal with law suits for the next 10-50+ years, I doubt they're going to be interested in working on the next vaccine. Or if they do, they're going to be pricing in all those legal costs into the cost they're going to charge for the vaccine.
Charpie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
petebaker appears to be a bot
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Charpie said:

petebaker appears to be a bot
Ah ok thanks Charpie!
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
denied
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Has there been any discussion/thought as to the mechanisms that are leading to the increased rates of myocarditis in young men? If the PFE vaccination involved injecting adenovirus (my understanding is that it does not) I could understand viral infection caused myocarditis; with the active/inactive ingredients of PFE's vaccine I don't see a mechanism.

We went ahead and got my 15 year old son vaccinated the first Saturday after the EUA for 12-15 year olds (so he was done in early June), and my 12 year old daughter is in between her doses now. We had been planning on getting our 9 year old son vaccinated if/when it was authorized for him. To our knowledge none of them have any COVID risk factors. I say all of this because I have been a big believer in mRNA vaccinations since about 2013 and I didn't have any concern until the last month or so.
redcrayon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Charpie said:

petebaker appears to be a bot
A ten year old account is a bot?
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
denied said:

Has there been any discussion/thought as to the mechanisms that are leading to the increased rates of myocarditis in young men? If the PFE vaccination involved injecting adenovirus (my understanding is that it does not) I could understand viral infection caused myocarditis; with the active/inactive ingredients of PFE's vaccine I don't see a mechanism.

We went ahead and got my 15 year old son vaccinated the first Saturday after the EUA for 12-15 year olds (so he was done in early June), and my 12 year old daughter is in between her doses now. We had been planning on getting our 9 year old son vaccinated if/when it was authorized for him. To our knowledge none of them have any COVID risk factors. I say all of this because I have been a big believer in mRNA vaccinations since about 2013 and I didn't have any concern until the last month or so.
Nothing concrete. Most theories think it is an autoimmune mechanism similar to GBS and other adverse effects. Essentially our young people have strong immune systems and we are overstimulating them. That is why a lower dose was studied with Pfizer in 5-11 (1/3 dose) and I believe should likely be used on 12-25 as well.

For your young one they have roughly 1:100,000 chance of hospitalization with COVID and 6:100,000 chance of hospitalization for mRNA vaccine related myocarditis- both tiny tiny risks but I think in the near future you will see a dosing change for the 12-25 year olds. That is based on the current post marketing Pfizer data. In the initial small 5-11 Pfizer study there were no cases of myocarditis but there were none in the 2200 patient EUA for them either so nearly impossible to give good advice with such a small data set.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
petebaker
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://rumble.com/vk8gj4-covid-report-72321-professor-sucharit-bhakdi-pt-2.html
https://rumble.com/vjujat-professor-sucharit-bhakdi-explains-your-immune-response-system.html
BlackGoldAg2011
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
KidDoc said:

denied said:

Has there been any discussion/thought as to the mechanisms that are leading to the increased rates of myocarditis in young men? If the PFE vaccination involved injecting adenovirus (my understanding is that it does not) I could understand viral infection caused myocarditis; with the active/inactive ingredients of PFE's vaccine I don't see a mechanism.

We went ahead and got my 15 year old son vaccinated the first Saturday after the EUA for 12-15 year olds (so he was done in early June), and my 12 year old daughter is in between her doses now. We had been planning on getting our 9 year old son vaccinated if/when it was authorized for him. To our knowledge none of them have any COVID risk factors. I say all of this because I have been a big believer in mRNA vaccinations since about 2013 and I didn't have any concern until the last month or so.
Nothing concrete. Most theories think it is an autoimmune mechanism similar to GBS and other adverse effects. Essentially our young people have strong immune systems and we are overstimulating them. That is why a lower dose was studied with Pfizer in 5-11 (1/3 dose) and I believe should likely be used on 12-25 as well.

For your young one they have roughly 1:100,000 chance of hospitalization with COVID and 6:100,000 chance of hospitalization for mRNA vaccine related myocarditis- both tiny tiny risks but I think in the near future you will see a dosing change for the 12-25 year olds. That is based on the current post marketing Pfizer data. In the initial small 5-11 Pfizer study there were no cases of myocarditis but there were none in the 2200 patient EUA for them either so nearly impossible to give good advice with such a small data set.
Just a minor clarification to your numbers here, but that 1:100k hospitalization for covid risk for the 5-11 group is the risk for any single week. For the 6 month period ending on 9/11/21 the risk of any given 5-11 year old being hospitalized with covid is actually 11:100k. That number jumps to 22.1:100k if you look at the trailing 12 months. The risk from covid is a cumulative one while the vaccine risk for myocarditis is a one time event (at least as far as we know right now). And while I assume you know this, just to clarify for anyone who doesn't, that probability is for all kids in that age group, not just kids in that age group who get covid. hospitalization rates for kids in that age group who get covid over the trailing 6 months has been been between 0.5% and 1%.

Apologies in advance if that comes off as argumentative, as that was not my intent, I truly appreciate your perspective and insights on this so far, especially as a parent trying to wade through it all. And I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusions.



data sources for those curious:
https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
bay fan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
S
TX_AG_10 said:

Well my Dr. ended up throwing the kitchen sink at it. Ended up doing blood work (only for c-reactive protein), EKG and chest x-ray. All came back in the normal ranges. I still have the shortness of breath. With that being said, it does have me hesitant about a second dose if this is indeed a reaction from the first does. It's really annoying. My Dr. did prescribe an albuterol inhaler to help with it in the meantime.

I don't know if this has to do with allergies as I've had some nasal congestion (but I'm able to control that with meds). Hopefully it goes away soon.
Good news it wasn't myocarditis! Glad for you.
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BlackGoldAg2011 said:

KidDoc said:

denied said:

Has there been any discussion/thought as to the mechanisms that are leading to the increased rates of myocarditis in young men? If the PFE vaccination involved injecting adenovirus (my understanding is that it does not) I could understand viral infection caused myocarditis; with the active/inactive ingredients of PFE's vaccine I don't see a mechanism.

We went ahead and got my 15 year old son vaccinated the first Saturday after the EUA for 12-15 year olds (so he was done in early June), and my 12 year old daughter is in between her doses now. We had been planning on getting our 9 year old son vaccinated if/when it was authorized for him. To our knowledge none of them have any COVID risk factors. I say all of this because I have been a big believer in mRNA vaccinations since about 2013 and I didn't have any concern until the last month or so.
Nothing concrete. Most theories think it is an autoimmune mechanism similar to GBS and other adverse effects. Essentially our young people have strong immune systems and we are overstimulating them. That is why a lower dose was studied with Pfizer in 5-11 (1/3 dose) and I believe should likely be used on 12-25 as well.

For your young one they have roughly 1:100,000 chance of hospitalization with COVID and 6:100,000 chance of hospitalization for mRNA vaccine related myocarditis- both tiny tiny risks but I think in the near future you will see a dosing change for the 12-25 year olds. That is based on the current post marketing Pfizer data. In the initial small 5-11 Pfizer study there were no cases of myocarditis but there were none in the 2200 patient EUA for them either so nearly impossible to give good advice with such a small data set.
Just a minor clarification to your numbers here, but that 1:100k hospitalization for covid risk for the 5-11 group is the risk for any single week. For the 6 month period ending on 9/11/21 the risk of any given 5-11 year old being hospitalized with covid is actually 11:100k. That number jumps to 22.1:100k if you look at the trailing 12 months. The risk from covid is a cumulative one while the vaccine risk for myocarditis is a one time event (at least as far as we know right now). And while I assume you know this, just to clarify for anyone who doesn't, that probability is for all kids in that age group, not just kids in that age group who get covid. hospitalization rates for kids in that age group who get covid over the trailing 6 months has been been between 0.5% and 1%.

Apologies in advance if that comes off as argumentative, as that was not my intent, I truly appreciate your perspective and insights on this so far, especially as a parent trying to wade through it all. And I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusions.



data sources for those curious:
https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
Good counter argument and it certainly has some validity to it. My real problem with how the CDC and AAP are treating pediatric COVID hospitalization risk is they completely ignore pre-existing conditions when comparing risk of hospital vs risk of vaccine. I have no doubt that vaccine for all kids even 5+ will be beneficial if they have risk factors. At least 80% of all pediatric hospital stays have pre-existing risk factors and if you filtered out children under 1 I bet it would be even higher. So for 5-11 year olds your 22/100k hospital risk drops to 4.4/100k if you factor out patients who have no risk factors (including BMI > 85%)

If you compare hospital risk of healthy teens with no risk factors of vaccine adverse effects vs COVID is is way too close. I am just not comfortable advising full dose Pfizer for that demographic at this time. I don't harp against it in the clinic but if they ask I tell them the current data and let them decide as we don't even give it in the clinic at this time due to lacking the deep freezers.

I hope we don't see the myocarditis cases with the lowered Pfizer dose in 5-11 and I hope they rapidly extend this same dosing schedule to 12-20 or so.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
petebaker
How long do you want to ignore this user?

ArkyAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
KidDoc said:

denied said:

Has there been any discussion/thought as to the mechanisms that are leading to the increased rates of myocarditis in young men? If the PFE vaccination involved injecting adenovirus (my understanding is that it does not) I could understand viral infection caused myocarditis; with the active/inactive ingredients of PFE's vaccine I don't see a mechanism.

We went ahead and got my 15 year old son vaccinated the first Saturday after the EUA for 12-15 year olds (so he was done in early June), and my 12 year old daughter is in between her doses now. We had been planning on getting our 9 year old son vaccinated if/when it was authorized for him. To our knowledge none of them have any COVID risk factors. I say all of this because I have been a big believer in mRNA vaccinations since about 2013 and I didn't have any concern until the last month or so.
Nothing concrete. Most theories think it is an autoimmune mechanism similar to GBS and other adverse effects. Essentially our young people have strong immune systems and we are overstimulating them. That is why a lower dose was studied with Pfizer in 5-11 (1/3 dose) and I believe should likely be used on 12-25 as well.

For your young one they have roughly 1:100,000 chance of hospitalization with COVID and 6:100,000 chance of hospitalization for mRNA vaccine related myocarditis- both tiny tiny risks but I think in the near future you will see a dosing change for the 12-25 year olds. That is based on the current post marketing Pfizer data. In the initial small 5-11 Pfizer study there were no cases of myocarditis but there were none in the 2200 patient EUA for them either so nearly impossible to give good advice with such a small data set.
KidDoc - just out of curiosity, why do boys seem more susceptible to getting myocarditis than girls?
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
ArkyAg said:

KidDoc said:

denied said:

Has there been any discussion/thought as to the mechanisms that are leading to the increased rates of myocarditis in young men? If the PFE vaccination involved injecting adenovirus (my understanding is that it does not) I could understand viral infection caused myocarditis; with the active/inactive ingredients of PFE's vaccine I don't see a mechanism.

We went ahead and got my 15 year old son vaccinated the first Saturday after the EUA for 12-15 year olds (so he was done in early June), and my 12 year old daughter is in between her doses now. We had been planning on getting our 9 year old son vaccinated if/when it was authorized for him. To our knowledge none of them have any COVID risk factors. I say all of this because I have been a big believer in mRNA vaccinations since about 2013 and I didn't have any concern until the last month or so.
Nothing concrete. Most theories think it is an autoimmune mechanism similar to GBS and other adverse effects. Essentially our young people have strong immune systems and we are overstimulating them. That is why a lower dose was studied with Pfizer in 5-11 (1/3 dose) and I believe should likely be used on 12-25 as well.

For your young one they have roughly 1:100,000 chance of hospitalization with COVID and 6:100,000 chance of hospitalization for mRNA vaccine related myocarditis- both tiny tiny risks but I think in the near future you will see a dosing change for the 12-25 year olds. That is based on the current post marketing Pfizer data. In the initial small 5-11 Pfizer study there were no cases of myocarditis but there were none in the 2200 patient EUA for them either so nearly impossible to give good advice with such a small data set.
KidDoc - just out of curiosity, why do boys seem more susceptible to getting myocarditis than girls?
Nobody knows, just the facts from current data show it clearly has a preference for young men.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
TX_AG_10
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Appreciate it! I'm almost wishing it was myocarditis just so I could have something to treat. Still having slight shortness of breath (way more frequent deep breaths and yawning). When it first started I could barely go 2 minutes without needing to take a deep breath. Going to see pulmonologist this next week and hopefully I can get some answers.

I don't know if shortness of breath is indeed a side effect from the vaccine, but man I've never had these issues before. Talk about a coincidence if this has nothing to do with the vaccine.
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The hold up in the trial for younger children was to look for this side effect. Despite adding a bunch more participants to the trial, it wasn't seen.
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
amercer said:

The hold up in the trial for younger children was to look for this side effect. Despite adding a bunch more participants to the trial, it wasn't seen.
Yes I'm hopeful with the lower dose we won't see it and then they drop the dose in the 12-25 age range as well.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
A big data dump on pediatric hospitalizations shows what we expect. 80% have prexisting conditions and obesity is a huge risk factor.

https://consumer.healthday.com/pre-existing-chronic-conditions-tied-to-covid-severity-in-kids-2655071463.html
-------------------------------------
The researchers identified 19,976 COVID-19 encounters; of these, 79.7 percent of pediatric patients were discharged from the emergency department and 20.3 percent were hospitalized. Of those hospitalized, 79.3 percent had moderate disease, 11.3 percent had severe disease, and 9.4 percent had very severe disease. Private payer insurance (adjusted odds ratio [aOR], 1.16), obesity/type 2 diabetes mellitus (aOR, 10.4), asthma (aOR, 1.4), cardiovascular disease (aOR, 5.0), immunocompromised condition (aOR, 5.9), pulmonary disease (aOR, 5.3), and neurologic disease (aOR, 3.2) were factors associated with hospitalization versus emergency department discharge. Black or other non-White race, age older than 4 years, and obesity/type 2 diabetes mellitus and cardiovascular, neuromuscular, and pulmonary conditions were factors associated with greater disease severity among hospitalized children and adolescents.

---------------------------------------------

aOR is adjusted odds ratio so basically how much that factor increases your risk-- so obesity/type 2 DM is 10x more likely to be hospitalized. Private payer insurance is 1.16x more likely which is weird but whatever.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
More data from Israel. If your teen has NO RISK FACTORS I suggest waiting for lower dose data with Pfizer.

Myocarditis after Covid-19 Vaccination in a Large Health Care Organization | NEJM

The highest incidence of myocarditis (10.69 cases per 100,000 persons; 95% CI, 6.93 to 14.46) was reported in male patients between the ages of 16 and 29 years. A total of 76% of cases of myocarditis were described as mild and 22% as intermediate; 1 case was associated with cardiogenic shock. After a median follow-up of 83 days after the onset of myocarditis, 1 patient had been readmitted to the hospital, and 1 had died of an unknown cause after discharge. Of 14 patients who had left ventricular dysfunction on echocardiography during admission, 10 still had such dysfunction at the time of hospital discharge. Of these patients, 5 underwent subsequent testing that revealed normal heart function.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
88planoAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
My 18 year old decided on the JnJ and received his vaccine in early September. Is there any increased risk with that vaccine? He is healthy, no risk factors for covid, had an asymptomatic positive in Dec 2020 (parents both symptomatic positive so I don't think his test was a false positive, but he was not interested in the antibody study so idk for sure).
petebaker
How long do you want to ignore this user?

https://www.thesuburban.com/news/covid_19/five-scandinavian-countries-limit-or-halt-moderna/article_7ac39fac-fae7-5937-acd1-6f94ac576e39.html
Finland has joined Sweden, Denmark and Norway in either banning or discouraging young adults or teens from getting the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine, because of the increased risk of myocarditis heart inflammation.
Dr. Hanna Nohynek, chief physician at the Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, had told the media a decision was coming down Thursday.
Finland's health authorities announced that men under 30 will not get the Moderna shot, and should get the Pfizer vaccine instead. Sweden banned Moderna for people under the age of 30, and Denmark did the same for people under 18. Instead of issuing a ban, Norway is urging people under 30 to choose Pfizer rather than Moderna.
And on Friday, Iceland halted distribution of Moderna in general.
"The Chief Epidemiologist has decided that the Moderna vaccine against Covid-19 will not be used in Iceland while further information is obtained on the safety of the vaccine during booster vaccinations," says a statement from Iceland health officials.
The decision by all five countries was sparked by a study by Sweden's Public Health Agency, saying administering the Moderna shot to young people could bring about "an increased risk of side effects such as inflammation of the heart muscle or the pericardium the double-walled sac containing the heart and the roots of the main vessels." The study added the proviso "the risk of being affected is very small."
The Swedish report is being studied by the European Medicines Agency's adverse reaction committee, media reports say.
The Public Health Agency of Canada has stated that "as part of the careful monitoring of these vaccines, reports of rare cases of myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis (inflammation of the tissue surrounding the heart) after immunization with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines continue to be reported in Canada and around the world.
"Vaccine safety surveillance data in Canada also suggest relatively higher rates of myocarditis and/or pericarditis reported after Spikevax (Moderna) vaccination compared to Comirnaty (Pfizer-BioNTech). While follow-up is ongoing, the available data indicate that the majority of affected individuals, even if hospitalized, experience relatively mild illness, respond well to conservative treatment, and recover quickly. It is also important to consider that the risk of cardiac complications, including myocarditis, has been shown to be substantially increased following SARS-CoV-2 infection, and that it is higher following infection than after vaccination.
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
88planoAg said:

My 18 year old decided on the JnJ and received his vaccine in early September. Is there any increased risk with that vaccine? He is healthy, no risk factors for covid, had an asymptomatic positive in Dec 2020 (parents both symptomatic positive so I don't think his test was a false positive, but he was not interested in the antibody study so idk for sure).


No known myocarditis risk with J&J at this time.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
petebaker
How long do you want to ignore this user?

pocketrockets06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think the assumption you have (possibly true) is that the myocarditis with vaccine kids are not equally likely to develop myocarditis with the vaccine. My gut feeling suggests the opposite. With no active virus in the vaccine, the myocarditis is likely just associated with the immune response to the protein in the vaccine. Presumably their body would generate a very similar response to the actual virus and result in myocarditis. In other words, the kids getting myocarditis from the vaccine would also be at high risk from virus induced myocarditis. I don't think we've had a study with a large enough sample size to distinguish whether your assumption or mine is true.
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
pocketrockets06 said:

I think the assumption you have (possibly true) is that the myocarditis with vaccine kids are not equally likely to develop myocarditis with the vaccine. My gut feeling suggests the opposite. With no active virus in the vaccine, the myocarditis is likely just associated with the immune response to the protein in the vaccine. Presumably their body would generate a very similar response to the actual virus and result in myocarditis. In other words, the kids getting myocarditis from the vaccine would also be at high risk from virus induced myocarditis. I don't think we've had a study with a large enough sample size to distinguish whether your assumption or mine is true.
Yes that is very likely. But I believe over time we will find that a lower vaccine dose would give adequate protection without triggering this inflammatory cascade and causing heart inflammation. This is the main reason the Moderna EUA for teens is still in process.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
pocketrockets06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Agreed that ideally we find out the low dose shot works and it makes vaccination a complete slam dunk. if it doesn't it presents an interesting risk case. Basically two populations. In group A they essentially have the choice of vaccine induced myocarditis or viral induced myocarditis plus other virus effects. In group B they basically have a risk free vaccine vs a viral infection without myocarditis. It strikes me that both groups would still be advantaged to get the vaccine unless the group A people can avoid infection until they are in their 30's which would be highly dependent on prevalence (ironically it would depend on the level of vaccination of everyone else)
petebaker
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Refresh
Page 2 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.