dubberage said:

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Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, "but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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More compelling than any I've heard from the other side.

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Natural immunity

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G. hirsutum Ag said:

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Why do we continue to try to persuade people to do anything?

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dubberage said:

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Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.

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Captain Pablo said:

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dubberage said:

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Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.

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Are you sure about that number? That sounds awfully high, And I doubt its accuracy

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West Point Aggie said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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dubberage said:

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Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.

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Are you sure about that number? That sounds awfully high, And I doubt its accuracy

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Seems suspect, doesn't it?

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dubberage said:

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He works for UT Health. This is what he told me last night. Okay, so let's say he is wrong and its 90% instead of 99%. Is 90% high enough for you to maybe think it has something to do with being vaccinated or not? Or its a conspiracy perpetuated by the government?

Look, I don't care about one side or the other, but when I see relatively healthy, or average health people in their 50's, 60's and 70's dying due to Covid, and I know them, it makes me sad for their families. Because you will always wonder or second guess if getting a simple vaccine would have saved their lives. Hundreds of millions of people vaccinated but you believe some internet post by some doctor that this could cause issues in 5-10 years. Well, I'd rather live for 5-10 more years than die next month.

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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eric76 said:

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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More compelling than any I've heard from the other side.

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Natural immunity

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There is also the ultimate immunity -- you get it once and you can never get it again. It's called death.

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Very strange comment.

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Quote:

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First: herd immunity comes at a steep price. Some animals, or in COVID-19's case, humans, die of the disease consequent to infection. It is inhuman to let some die so that others might be protected.

...

Public health ethics does not allow the sacrifice of an unfortunate few for the benefit of survivors.

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samurai_texan said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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My unvaccinated uncle passed today. He had all sorts of arguments against getting vaccinated including "I want to know what is in my body". He literally said that with a cigarette in his hand. So weird.

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My vaccinated step mother passed 3 weeks ago. She was healthy and in her 60s

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Quote:

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In other words, if we are going to use natural immunity to deal with covid, we have got to be ready and willing to accept a lot more deaths than if people would get the vaccine.

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eric76 said:

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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eric76 said:

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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More compelling than any I've heard from the other side.

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Natural immunity

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There is also the ultimate immunity -- you get it once and you can never get it again. It's called death.

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Very strange comment.

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I agree that it is pretty tacky, but it is largely brought on by the comments of a retired researcher who said that the problem with herd immunity is all the individuals in the herd that have to die to achieve herd immunity:

Quote:

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First: herd immunity comes at a steep price. Some animals, or in COVID-19's case, humans, die of the disease consequent to infection. It is inhuman to let some die so that others might be protected.

...

Public health ethics does not allow the sacrifice of an unfortunate few for the benefit of survivors.

---

In other words, if we are going to use natural immunity to deal with covid, we have got to be ready and willing to accept a lot more deaths than if people would get the vaccine.

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badbilly said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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samurai_texan said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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My unvaccinated uncle passed today. He had all sorts of arguments against getting vaccinated including "I want to know what is in my body". He literally said that with a cigarette in his hand. So weird.

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My vaccinated step mother passed 3 weeks ago. She was healthy and in her 60s

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There are outliers in every situation. It's been shown that the vaccine keeps most people from getting really sick or dying from this thing.

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Not outliers
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/uk-public-health-briefing-shows-65-of-delta-variant-deaths-are-in-the-vaccinated/

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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badbilly said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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samurai_texan said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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My unvaccinated uncle passed today. He had all sorts of arguments against getting vaccinated including "I want to know what is in my body". He literally said that with a cigarette in his hand. So weird.

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My vaccinated step mother passed 3 weeks ago. She was healthy and in her 60s

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There are outliers in every situation. It's been shown that the vaccine keeps most people from getting really sick or dying from this thing.

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Not outliers
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/uk-public-health-briefing-shows-65-of-delta-variant-deaths-are-in-the-vaccinated/

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So your contention is that the majority of deaths from COVID come from the vaccinated population? Or is it the exception to the rule?

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dubberage said:

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Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.

---

Quote:

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Not outliers

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/uk-public-health-briefing-shows-65-of-delta-variant-deaths-are-in-the-vaccinated/

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Quote:

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This week, a false claim circulated on social media that misrepresented data from Public Health England on coronavirus variants, including delta, a mutation found in more than 80 countries that spreads more easily.

"UK Government data shows you are 745% more likely to die if you have had 2 vaccination doses Vs none at all," a Twitter post falsely claimed. The post included a screenshot from the public health agency's data on delta variant infections and deaths, but the data does not support the claim.
From Feb. 1 to June 21, the public health agency documented 92,029 cases of patients infected with the delta variant. Of those patients, 53,822, or about 58%, were unvaccinated and 7,235, or less than 8%, had received both doses of a vaccine.

"If the vaccine didn't work, you'd expect those numbers to be equal," explained David Cennimo, an infectious disease expert at the Rutgers New Jersey Medical School. "You're seeing in the data that the vaccine is working."

The agency's data shows 117 people died from the delta variant within 28 days of a positive test, including 44 people who were unvaccinated and 50 who were fully vaccinated.
The Twitter post uses those numbers to falsely claim the data shows people who were vaccinated had a 0.69% chance of dying and people who were unvaccinated had just a 0.08% chance of dying, and the difference between those is 745%. But experts say that form of analysis is invalid because the data does not take into account age of patients and other underlying illnesses.

The math used to interpret the data in the Twitter post "doesn't make sense," Cennimo said. "You have no idea how comparable the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups are. It's not a controlled group. We don't know who had cancer, who was immunocompromised."

More than 90% of people over the age of 50 have been fully vaccinated in Britain. The report states that no one under the age of 50 who received two doses of the vaccine died from the Delta variant.

"This same point has been debunked multiple times," Luke Weeks, a spokesperson from the British agency told The Associated Press in an email. "The data should be interpreted taking into consideration the context of very high vaccine coverage in the UK population, even with a highly effective vaccine, it is expected that a large proportion of cases would occur in vaccinated individuals, simply because a larger proportion of the population are vaccinated than unvaccinated."

Some of the people who died after being infected with the delta variant may have died of other causes, Weeks explained. "Individuals in risk groups may also be more at risk of hospitalisation or death due to non-Covid-19 causes, and thus may be hospitalised or die with Covid-19 rather than because of Covid-19," he said.

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Quote:

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Seems suspect, doesn't it?

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Quote:

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An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that "breakthrough" infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That's about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

The AP analyzed figures provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.

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Gumby said:

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dubberage said:

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Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.

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At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?

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eric76 said:

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In other words, if we are going to use natural immunity to deal with covid, we have got to be ready and willing to accept a lot more deaths than if people would get the vaccine.

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Keller6Ag91 said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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badbilly said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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samurai_texan said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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My unvaccinated uncle passed today. He had all sorts of arguments against getting vaccinated including "I want to know what is in my body". He literally said that with a cigarette in his hand. So weird.

---

My vaccinated step mother passed 3 weeks ago. She was healthy and in her 60s

---

There are outliers in every situation. It's been shown that the vaccine keeps most people from getting really sick or dying from this thing.

---

Not outliers
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/uk-public-health-briefing-shows-65-of-delta-variant-deaths-are-in-the-vaccinated/

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So your contention is that the majority of deaths from COVID come from the vaccinated population? Or is it the exception to the rule?

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How do we really know the vaccine is working? It's a matter of the truly vulnerable (those with comorbidities like Cancer, Obesity, Smokers, etc) having positive outcomes after getting COVID right?

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