Every few days hearing of unvaccinated people close to me dying . . .

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Zobel
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In reply to TarponChaser • 12:20p, 9/8/21
AG

Quote:
You know, the whole thing where something like 99.5% of people who get covid survive with no lasting effects whatsoever.
99.5 would be looking at fatalities. So mortality of ~0.5%.

Morbidity is probably somewhere in the 20% range short term and ~3% long term.

Here is probably more than you want to read about it.

https://www.1daysooner.org/long-term-risks-faq
https://www.mattbell.us/delta-and-long-covid/
https://acesounderglass.com/2021/08/30/long-covid-is-not-necessarily-your-biggest-problem/

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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to Zobel • 12:28p, 9/8/21
AG
That's for alpha anyway. Delta variant seems to have about twice the IFR of the original COVID. so more like 1% instead of 0.5%.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.05.21260050v1
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Windy City Ag
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In reply to planoaggie123 • 12:46p, 9/8/21
AG
Quote:
So the data is right just how it is being interpreted or is the data being cherry-picked somehow?

Just straight data....

It does seem that of 742 delta deaths, 402 received 2 doses of the vaccine.

300,010 cases....47K fully vaccinated, 46K partially vaccinated and 151K unvaccinated.

402 / 47000 vaccinated deaths per vaccinated case = 0.85%

253 / 151000 unvaccinated deaths per unvaccinated case = 0.17%


I do say that seems outside of what I would suspect so definitely curious

I am sure the data in its small and unanalyzed sample is right . . .the question is whether you can draw the conclusion insinuated by this blog poster.

The above stats assume the two communities are equal in size which is totally not the case. In early August, the British government estimated that 90% of its population has had one vaccine shot and 75% have had full vaccination protocols. So out of the gates, the sample population of potential "fully" vaccinated breakthrough Delta Variants patients is 5x larger than the unvaccinated pool. It is 9x larger for the single shot crowd. You have to measure those stats above against their communities to really get incidences.

Add in that not all COVID patients are equal. I think we can agree that the elderly and immuno-compromised are going to have a harder time with this (and most other things). The stats don't delve into critical differences in those two groups either.

The researchers criticizing the blog post are pointing those things out specifically.
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coolerguy12
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In reply to FratboyLegend • 1:14p, 9/8/21
AG
FratboyLegend said:
dubberage said:
Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.
elaborate please


OP, you used the following terms to describe the people you know that have passed
-usual health issues
-average to below average health
-relatively healthy
-average health

These terms are very vague and also contradictory. Can you please elaborate some on the health conditions of the people in your OP? Maybe others would identify with their condition and take it a little more seriously.
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DCAggie13y
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In reply to El Chupacabra • 1:47p, 9/8/21
AG
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.


Agree 100%. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now that we know there is no difference between transmission in vaxxed or unvaxxed, who cares. The hospital issue is the only argument that not getting vaxxed is hurting others but then you get into things like obesity and unhealthy lifestyle that are also contributing to the problem. The vaccine alone isn't going to turn us from a sick nation into a healthy one.
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DCAggie13y
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In reply to coolerguy12 • 1:50p, 9/8/21
AG
coolerguy12 said:
FratboyLegend said:
dubberage said:
Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.
elaborate please


OP, you used the following terms to describe the people you know that have passed
-usual health issues
-average to below average health
-relatively healthy
-average health

These terms are very vague and also contradictory. Can you please elaborate some on the health conditions of the people in your OP? Maybe others would identify with their condition and take it a little more seriously.


Let me see if I can help.

Average health = obese
Below average health = morbidly obese
Relatively healthy = exercises once per quarter
Usual health issues = type 2 diabetes and metabolic disorder
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Nixter
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2:02p, 9/8/21
AG
My vaccinated uncle died of Covid.

He was 80. He smoked 2+ packs daily for 65 years (quit 6 months ago!). He drank around the clock for 60 years. Bud Light should have paid for his funeral. He only had one kidney (other removed due to cancer). His bones were chalk, and multiple falls had broken his hip several times. God knows what his liver looked like. But considering the life he lived, he was tough to kill.

His Covid symptoms were very mild, but considering everything he probably just needed the slightest nudge over the edge. He'll be marked as a Covid breakthrough, but context helps for those seeking a better understanding.
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double aught
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In reply to DCAggie13y • 3:15p, 9/8/21
AG
Gumby said:
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.


Agree 100%. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now that we know there is no difference between transmission in vaxxed or unvaxxed, who cares. The hospital issue is the only argument that not getting vaxxed is hurting others but then you get into things like obesity and unhealthy lifestyle that are also contributing to the problem. The vaccine alone isn't going to turn us from a sick nation into a healthy one.
No difference in transmission? I don't think that's a certainty.
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Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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In reply to DCAggie13y • 3:18p, 9/8/21
Gumby said:
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.


Agree 100%. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now that we know there is no difference between transmission in vaxxed or unvaxxed, who cares. The hospital issue is the only argument that not getting vaxxed is hurting others but then you get into things like obesity and unhealthy lifestyle that are also contributing to the problem. The vaccine alone isn't going to turn us from a sick nation into a healthy one.
The issue with not getting vaxxed is greater chances of taking up hospital beds and getting sicker when it's not necessary. Getting the vax is really the easiest decision to be made. Do it or not, I don't really care but I'm running out of empathy for people that struggle with COVID who aren't vaxxed.

BTW, that is the same for most health issues that people bring upon themselves.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
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In reply to double aught • 3:20p, 9/8/21
CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to [removed post] • 3:24p, 9/8/21
SoupNazi2001 said:
double aught said:
Gumby said:
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.


Agree 100%. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now that we know there is no difference between transmission in vaxxed or unvaxxed, who cares. The hospital issue is the only argument that not getting vaxxed is hurting others but then you get into things like obesity and unhealthy lifestyle that are also contributing to the problem. The vaccine alone isn't going to turn us from a sick nation into a healthy one.
No difference in transmission? I don't think that's a certainty.


I know this upsets many people who took the vaccine because one of the reasons they took it is to help others, prevent the spread and not be selfish. However vaccinated people are spreading the virus just as much and there is no evidence that they aren't.

Except vaccinated people end up less severely sick, sick for a shorter duration, heal faster etc. Significantly.

So I know this upsets many people who want to downplay aspects of the vaccine, but simple plain logic says they spread the virus significantly less than the unvaxxed simply because it's in their bodies much less of the time.
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to [removed post] • 3:52p, 9/8/21
AG
The vaccine did exactly what was promised for covid alpha. It stops infection, spread, severe disease and death. There was no dishonesty in the advertising. It continues to do all of those things. However, covid delta is very different. With covid delta, the vaccine is only 60% or so against infection, but it is over 95% at preventing hospitalization and better than that at preventing death. That's still pretty impressive considering the vaccine was custom engineered to treat a related but different virus
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Jabin
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 3:57p, 9/8/21
ramblin_ag02 said:
The vaccine did exactly what was promised for covid alpha. It stops infection, spread, severe disease and death. There was no dishonesty in the advertising. It continues to do all of those things. However, covid delta is very different. With covid delta, the vaccine is only 60% or so against infection, but it is over 95% at preventing hospitalization and better than that at preventing death. That's still pretty impressive considering the vaccine was custom engineered to treat a related but different virus
Great point, doc.

I remember clearly that, when the vaccines were released, there were all kinds of disclaimers as to its effectiveness, or lack thereof, against possible future variants.
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dubberage
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4:32p, 9/8/21
For all i know, these people were in average health for their age with no major issues (obesity, diabetes, etc). One played tennis so must be in decent shape for late 60's. I just don't ever remembering hearing about multiple people in my social circle dying of the flu every year. Or maybe I didn't pay attention. All i am saying is saddens me that a few of these people (and a lot of others) might still be alive if they got the vaccine. But i know, me/others/government have no right to tell you or anyone else what to do.

supposedly, my great X4 uncle was Charles Darwin and you know his theories on this stuff
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Captain Pablo
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In reply to dubberage • 6:11p, 9/8/21
AG
dubberage said:
For all i know, these people were in average health for their age with no major issues (obesity, diabetes, etc). One played tennis so must be in decent shape for late 60's. I just don't ever remembering hearing about multiple people in my social circle dying of the flu every year. Or maybe I didn't pay attention. All i am saying is saddens me that a few of these people (and a lot of others) might still be alive if they got the vaccine. But i know, me/others/government have no right to tell you or anyone else what to do. ]

supposedly, my great X4 uncle was Charles Darwin and you know his theories on this stuff


You don't have a problem with that do you?
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DCAggie13y
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In reply to Ghost of Andrew Eaton • 6:16p, 9/8/21
AG
Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:
Gumby said:
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.


Agree 100%. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now that we know there is no difference between transmission in vaxxed or unvaxxed, who cares. The hospital issue is the only argument that not getting vaxxed is hurting others but then you get into things like obesity and unhealthy lifestyle that are also contributing to the problem. The vaccine alone isn't going to turn us from a sick nation into a healthy one.
The issue with not getting vaxxed is greater chances of taking up hospital beds and getting sicker when it's not necessary. Getting the vax is really the easiest decision to be made. Do it or not, I don't really care but I'm running out of empathy for people that struggle with COVID who aren't vaxxed.

BTW, that is the same for most health issues that people bring upon themselves.


I think more of us are coming to this position. At this point, you can either use force to vaccinate people who don't care enough to protect their own health or you can let them suffer when they get COVID. Those of us who are vaccinated don't need to worry about severe infection.
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Captain Pablo
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In reply to DCAggie13y • 6:19p, 9/8/21
AG
Gumby said:
Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:
Gumby said:
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.


Agree 100%. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now that we know there is no difference between transmission in vaxxed or unvaxxed, who cares. The hospital issue is the only argument that not getting vaxxed is hurting others but then you get into things like obesity and unhealthy lifestyle that are also contributing to the problem. The vaccine alone isn't going to turn us from a sick nation into a healthy one.
The issue with not getting vaxxed is greater chances of taking up hospital beds and getting sicker when it's not necessary. Getting the vax is really the easiest decision to be made. Do it or not, I don't really care but I'm running out of empathy for people that struggle with COVID who aren't vaxxed.

BTW, that is the same for most health issues that people bring upon themselves.


I think more of us are coming to this position. At this point, you can either use force to vaccinate people who don't care enough to protect their own health or you can let them suffer when they get COVID. Those of us who are vaccinated don't need to worry about severe infection.


Are you in favor of using force to vaccinate people?

If so, what kind of force?
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Fenrir
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In reply to TheHulkster • 6:24p, 9/8/21
mkorzo said:
This is an impressive, dare I say sociopathic, absence of empathy.


He doesn't seem far off though. There have been people taking that position about the unvaccinated on this forum lately, including this very thread.
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In reply to Fenrir • 6:39p, 9/8/21
AG
No, no. He's waaaaaay effing off. Read it again.

"It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people."

That's a fairly outrageous statement.
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Fenrir
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In reply to TheHulkster • 6:59p, 9/8/21
And we have had multiple people claim to not care what happens to unvaccinated people. Seems like those individuals have a similar lack of empathy.
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TheHulkster
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In reply to Fenrir • 7:04p, 9/8/21
AG
No doubt.
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$30,000 Millionaire
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In reply to Fenrir • 7:30p, 9/8/21
AG
Fenrir said:
And we have had multiple people claim to not care what happens to unvaccinated people. Seems like those individuals have a similar lack of empathy.


What good reason is there at this point to not be vaccinated? Lackluster vaccination rates are extending this thing.
You don’t trade for money, you trade for freedom.
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Fenrir
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In reply to $30,000 Millionaire • 8:13p, 9/8/21
Can't imagine there are many that would compel me to agree. I make no arguments for the unvaccinated. It's their choice and they'll have to live with it. I mostly just find it humorous that a few posts after several people blue starred a post calling out someone for a lack of empathy there is a post admitting to a lack of empathy and it getting a similar number of stars.
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DCAggie13y
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In reply to Captain Pablo • 8:19p, 9/8/21
AG
Captain Pablo said:
Gumby said:
Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:
Gumby said:
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.


Agree 100%. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now that we know there is no difference between transmission in vaxxed or unvaxxed, who cares. The hospital issue is the only argument that not getting vaxxed is hurting others but then you get into things like obesity and unhealthy lifestyle that are also contributing to the problem. The vaccine alone isn't going to turn us from a sick nation into a healthy one.
The issue with not getting vaxxed is greater chances of taking up hospital beds and getting sicker when it's not necessary. Getting the vax is really the easiest decision to be made. Do it or not, I don't really care but I'm running out of empathy for people that struggle with COVID who aren't vaxxed.

BTW, that is the same for most health issues that people bring upon themselves.


I think more of us are coming to this position. At this point, you can either use force to vaccinate people who don't care enough to protect their own health or you can let them suffer when they get COVID. Those of us who are vaccinated don't need to worry about severe infection.


Are you in favor of using force to vaccinate people?

If so, what kind of force?


Not at all.
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In reply to Fenrir • 8:24p, 9/8/21
AG
Fenrir said:
And we have had multiple people claim to not care what happens to unvaccinated people. Seems like those individuals have a similar lack of empathy.


It's a bit like caring about people who smoke or drink or do drugs or choose unhealthy lifestyles. You can obsess over their choices and try to force and mandate them to take care of their health or you can say well they've made their choices, there is not much else I can do.

It's like seeing a morbidly obese person eating fast food. It's sad and unfortunate but what good does it do to work yourself into a frenzy over it?
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astros4545
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In reply to El Chupacabra • 10:55p, 9/8/21
AG
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.
^
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In reply to DCAggie13y • 10:56p, 9/8/21
AG
Gumby said:
Fenrir said:
And we have had multiple people claim to not care what happens to unvaccinated people. Seems like those individuals have a similar lack of empathy.


It's a bit like caring about people who smoke or drink or do drugs or choose unhealthy lifestyles. You can obsess over their choices and try to force and mandate them to take care of their health or you can say well they've made their choices, there is not much else I can do.

It's like seeing a morbidly obese person eating fast food. It's sad and unfortunate but what good does it do to work yourself into a frenzy over it?
I have stopped caring about communists, which is a way worse thing to be than obese
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bay fan
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In reply to double aught • 11:34p, 9/8/21
S
double aught said:
Gumby said:
El Chupacabra said:
Gumby said:
dubberage said:
Common theme the last few weeks. Close to me meaning no direct family members (we're all vaccinated), but friends of friends or parents of friends. conversations go like this.

Oh, "do you know so and so's mom got covid and died". Was she vaccinated? "No". Why not? "well she just didn't feel right about". So late 60's with usual health issues and thought a vaccine would do more harm than good. A few days later. "So and so" is in the hospital so that is why he isn't at work today. Vaccinated? No. Mid 50's average to below average health. A few days later. Another friend of my parents is in hospital with covid pneumonia. Early 70's. Vaccinated? "No". Why? Didn't believe in it.

I totally believe everyone has a right to decide one way or another on the vaccine, but come on people. If you are 50 plus and refuse to get vaccinated I just don't understand. My friend's 74 mother in law said "well, i heard it can make you infertile, and possibly give you cancer". Wtf? So at 74 your worried about fertility and getting cancer from something, and you smoked earlier in life?

Friend of mine works for major Houston hospital. All Covid patients in their hospital are 99.2% unvaccinated.

Oh, and to the guy sitting behind us at the game on Saturday. If you have a raging cough, stay home MF and watch it on TV. I know "he has a right come to the game, etc.". Yeah he does, but come on people.


At this point I've stopped caring about unvaccinated people. I got the vaccine, that will protect me from severe disease but doesn't make me any less likely to transmit it as an unvaccinated person.

So vaccination or not does not make someone "safer" in terms of getting others sick. The only thing it does is protect the vaccinated person. So if someone else decides not to get vaccinated that is their problem and doesn't affect me.

I could see the hospital argument but it's never been an issue where I live in VA. Plenty of hospital capacity. Doctors are begging people to come in for regular check ups.

So if someone gets vaccinated or not, why should I care?
Be honest, you never truly cared anyway. You may have posted your Ts & Ps on TexAgs or changed your Facebook profile picture, but you didn't really ever 'care'. Just like me (I never cared). It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people. Reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of covid didn't prompt you to help the family or send flowers or take a moment of silence or grieve in any way, just like 3 years ago reading a story about 35 y/o healthy John Doe in Cleveland dying of a car accident didn't prompt any of those same things.

The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself and others that you DO care, the sooner you'll just move on and stop letting COVID consume your life.


Agree 100%. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now that we know there is no difference between transmission in vaxxed or unvaxxed, who cares. The hospital issue is the only argument that not getting vaxxed is hurting others but then you get into things like obesity and unhealthy lifestyle that are also contributing to the problem. The vaccine alone isn't going to turn us from a sick nation into a healthy one.
No difference in transmission? I don't think that's a certainty.
Of course it's not. More people are vaccinated then unvaccinated and the majority of positive tests are unvaccinated. The facts are quite simple but many pretend otherwise.
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to astros4545 • 11:58p, 9/8/21
astros4545 said:
Gumby said:
Fenrir said:
And we have had multiple people claim to not care what happens to unvaccinated people. Seems like those individuals have a similar lack of empathy.


It's a bit like caring about people who smoke or drink or do drugs or choose unhealthy lifestyles. You can obsess over their choices and try to force and mandate them to take care of their health or you can say well they've made their choices, there is not much else I can do.

It's like seeing a morbidly obese person eating fast food. It's sad and unfortunate but what good does it do to work yourself into a frenzy over it?
I have stopped caring about communists, which is a way worse thing to be than obese

Interesting thing to say since those 'communist' states have powerhouse economies, have tons of great schools, doing tons of research, and smart people are flocking to them. While the vast majority of deep red states line the bottom 20 worst in terms of poverty, education, health, mortality rates, teen pregnancy rates and on and on and on.

Not to mention red states pay less in taxes compared to the benefits they receive from the government, like good communists.

Throwing that out before both our posts get deleted for pretending this is F16.
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Gordo14
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12:17a, 9/9/21
To those saying the vaccines don't limit the spread... You know there is plenty of evidence that the vaccines still have decent efficacy at preventing infection. That is by definition limiting the spread of COVID.
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03_Aggie
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In reply to Gordo14 • 7:16a, 9/9/21
Gordo14 said:
To those saying the vaccines don't limit the spread... You know there is plenty of evidence that the vaccines still have decent efficacy at preventing infection. That is by definition limiting the spread of COVID.


I would be interested to see what the evidence/data point utilized to determine that.
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Zobel
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In reply to 03_Aggie • 7:46a, 9/9/21
AG
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.18.21262237v1.full.pdf
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03_Aggie
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In reply to Zobel • 8:13a, 9/9/21
Thanks, I'll give it a read.
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In reply to Not a Bot • 8:21a, 9/9/21
AG
Captain Positivity said:
I'm a nurse. I work in the hospital. Most of my shifts are in the Covid units. The 92% unvaccinated figure is pretty consistent with what I'm seeing.

We know people can still get infected despite being vaccinated. Vaccinated people are not getting severe disease at the same rate. All available data points to that. I wish this was the focus of messaging all along.

The thing about this Delta wave that's really getting to me this time is the age difference between now and over the winter. Over the winter, it was probably 70% people over the age of 65. Now, it's basically inverted. We had to intubate a 30 year old yesterday. Had a 22 year old on the brink. And yes, for those of you who like to ask, most of these younger people are not exactly healthy to begin with in terms of body weight. People over the age of 75 are less than 10% of our Covid patients right now. One of the primary reasons is that the vast majority of old folks in our area got vaccinated.

I'm never going to criticize somebody for choosing not to take a vaccine, especially one developed so quickly. My job is just to provide accurate information as best I can and let people make their own choices. I wish more people would take it.

Are those young folk vaxxed?

Curious as I've seen very few anecdotal stories of people in that range on the brink if vaccinated.
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El Chupacabra
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In reply to TheHulkster • 12:27p, 9/9/21
mkorzo said:
No, no. He's waaaaaay effing off. Read it again.

"It's impossible to care about 10s of millions of anonymous, random people."

That's a fairly outrageous statement.
Not really. I think it is being honest, which gains you zero internet virtue signaling points or blue stars, and that is important to some people.

There's a VERY few number of people who actually make an effort to help, maybe you're one of them, I don't know. Saying 'thoughts and prayers' or 'get well soon' or 'I'm pulling for you' or changing your FB profile picture to an 'I'm COVID 19 Vaccinated' frame doesn't really help anything, and it doesn't mean you care. You're not invested in those people. This isn't some Holocaust or 9/11 type event.

There were tens of millions of people that posted black squares on their social media and millions that 'hash-tagged' BLM and those people truly, deeply (that's sarcasm) 'cared' about black lives. Then there were (are) a tiny, itty bitty handful of people that educate young, black men about fatherhood and drugs and sex and gangs...and those people actually (no sarcasm) care and prove it with their actions.

I'll stop rambling...what is the definition of caring in this context anyway?
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