More about ivermectin

13,545 Views | 129 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Ghost of Andrew Eaton
BCG Disciple
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AG
Zobel said:

If you want to understand, read this.

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/too-good-to-check-a-play-in-three

The fact that people still believe in hydroxychloroquine after very high quality evidence has shown it doesn't work (and in some cases may harm) gives me very little hope for any evidence in any direction changing peoples mind.

Ivermectin is a symptom of a larger problem.

Interesting. Trying to assess my bias, I am more likely to accept anything questioning mainstream media. However, I've had my guard up for years considering how misinformation spreads like wildfire on both sides.

In this particular incident, it still looks to me that the mainstream fabricated a story. This is based on what the dr actually said, how the local news cut the interview to spread fear, and how the media took it and ran. While correct that the hospitals statement didn't fully contradict the narrative, Rolling Stone felt silly enough about their lack of diligence that they walked the story back.

But, like I said, I am biased and am admittedly more likely to hold this opinion. If I thought otherwise I would probably just ignore this thread and move on.
RedComyn
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IF Ivermectin has any positive benefit at all, as some data might seem to indicate in parts of Africa and India, it is because not being riddled with parasites makes COVID more survivable. If you don't have parasites, you won't experience that same benefit.

Also it makes your balls not work, so there's that.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/and.12891

https://www.scholarsresearchlibrary.com/articles/effects-of-ivermectin-therapy-on-the-sperm-functions-of-nigerian-onchocerciasis-patients.pdf
TyHolden
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AG

edit: i forgot where i was....
Charpie
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Not funny and not the place for it
TyHolden
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Charpie said:

Not funny and not the place for it
agreed. i deleted. your post and aggierogue's need to be flagged.
IslandAg76
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". Physicians and government health agencies generally prefer to base therapies on evidence. "

I agree with most of your post BUT, when you have a new disease, people dying, supposedly full hospitals where do you get these therapies which are effective, based on evidence?
You try new stuff based on possible benefit and see if it works. You want to send patients home with no treatment because there are no FDA long term studies or send a safe drug which might help?
"Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member of Congress....
But then I repeat myself." Mark Twain
gonemaroon
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Windy City Ag said:

Most people rightly listen to their doctor over rumble.com.

Yaaaaa and there are a ton of Doctors out there that are literally allowing folks in the ER zero access to medicine. That's a fact. Guess it's better to die without Ivermectin in one's veins right? Guess it's wrong to do your own research?
gonemaroon
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curry97 said:

I took Ivermectin when I tested positive and still ended up in the hospital with Covid pneumonia. Discharging home tomorrow. Thank God.

Get well soon / throw the kitchen sink at it. Get some good steroids for your lungs - I did and it helped me.
Windy City Ag
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Quote:

Yaaaaa and there are a ton of Doctors out there that are literally allowing folks in the ER zero access to medicine. That's a fact. Guess it's better to die without Ivermectin in one's veins right? Guess it's wrong to do your own research?
If you are trying to say ER Docs are not prescribing any medicine at all, I seriously doubt that is a fact. If you are saying some might resist or choose not to prescribe a treatment that is not proven by their standards, I do believe that.
gonemaroon
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That's a fact in a lot of locations. Family member works in a small town ER / and they are literally giving zip to patients. Posters have been posting on Texags for a while to this fact also. Friends have had similar experiences and hell my brother's Dr. flat out told him if he gets sick there's zippo one can do to treat covid so just take the vacccine.
Windy City Ag
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That is disturbing. Seems like a major breach of a physician's hippocratic oath.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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gonemaroon said:

That's a fact in a lot of locations. Family member works in a small town ER / and they are literally giving zip to patients. Posters have been posting on Texags for a while to this fact also. Friends have had similar experiences and hell my brother's Dr. flat out told him if he gets sick there's zippo one can do to treat covid so just take the vacccine.
What your brother's doctor said is mostly accurate, outside of monoclonal antibody infusions, and even that has pretty poor efficacy for preventing severe disease. This is why you see so many physicians stressing the importance of getting vaccinated because we really have nothing else that is very effective until you are at the point of requiring oxygen.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Zobel
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Most viruses don't have direct treatments.
planoaggie123
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

gonemaroon said:

That's a fact in a lot of locations. Family member works in a small town ER / and they are literally giving zip to patients. Posters have been posting on Texags for a while to this fact also. Friends have had similar experiences and hell my brother's Dr. flat out told him if he gets sick there's zippo one can do to treat covid so just take the vacccine.
What your brother's doctor said is mostly accurate, outside of monoclonal antibody infusions, and even that has pretty poor efficacy for preventing severe disease. This is why you see so many physicians stressing the importance of getting vaccinated because we really have nothing else that is very effective until you are at the point of requiring oxygen.

What is this based on? I have seen multiple articles / studies that seem to show reduction in severe / hospitalization in the 70% / 80% range if taken within a few days of symptoms. Seems like FDA's EUA sort of shows some belief in the ability of it to work...right?
Petrino1
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All I know is that Ivermectin was the ONLY drug that helped me with my covid long haul symptoms (15 months of symptoms), and I tried most of the covid treatments out there: Z Pak, Steroid pack, doxycycline, zinc, vitamin d, Famotidine, etc.
PJYoung
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Zobel said:

If you want to understand, read this.

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/too-good-to-check-a-play-in-three

The fact that people still believe in hydroxychloroquine after very high quality evidence has shown it doesn't work (and in some cases may harm) gives me very little hope for any evidence in any direction changing peoples mind.

Ivermectin is a symptom of a larger problem.
curry97
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What was the dosage you took for the long haul symptoms?
PJYoung
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planoaggie123 said:

Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

gonemaroon said:

That's a fact in a lot of locations. Family member works in a small town ER / and they are literally giving zip to patients. Posters have been posting on Texags for a while to this fact also. Friends have had similar experiences and hell my brother's Dr. flat out told him if he gets sick there's zippo one can do to treat covid so just take the vacccine.
What your brother's doctor said is mostly accurate, outside of monoclonal antibody infusions, and even that has pretty poor efficacy for preventing severe disease. This is why you see so many physicians stressing the importance of getting vaccinated because we really have nothing else that is very effective until you are at the point of requiring oxygen.

What is this based on? I have seen multiple articles / studies that seem to show reduction in severe / hospitalization in the 70% / 80% range if taken within a few days of symptoms. Seems like FDA's EUA sort of shows some belief in the ability of it to work...right?


There are no double blinded studies that show it helps. The largest study was actually halted mid way because of the results.

It's gone the HCQ route, much loved by the right over the vaccine with no provable results.
Petrino1
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curry97 said:

What was the dosage you took for the long haul symptoms?
The first time I took 15MG (5 pills at once) on day 1 and day 3. The second time I took 15 MG 4 days in a row, and again 1 week later.
LSB_2002
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ea1060 said:

curry97 said:

What was the dosage you took for the long haul symptoms?
The first time I took 15MG (5 pills at once) on day 1 and day 3. The second time I took 15 MG 4 days in a row, and again 1 week later.
What long haul symptoms did you have? I'm curious, as i feel that i have some symptoms, 7 months post covid. Also, my wife and I dosed Ivermectin during our stint and had minor congestion and some tiredness. Obvious loss of taste and smell were the tell tell signs (positive tests for both of us afterwards).

We have this horrible taste and smell situation going on now, as does our 13 year old daughter.
snowdog90
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It's hard to know what to believe these days. We all have biases, I admit I'm no different. I don't trust the vaccines and won't get the shot. I know some companies are going through a more normal process to create a vaccine, and when one of those are available, I will reconsider.

The reason I don't trust the vaccines is because we've been lied to by the people pushing the vaccines from day 1 of this crisis. Fauci sickens me and is likely profiting greatly from all this. More and more information is coming out that he possibly funded this virus's creation, which should alarm and horrifying everyone.

All that said, I tend to believe the people saying ivermectin works. They have nothing financially to gain from saying this, and the evidence they show is truly mountainous. If all that evidence is a lie, what is to be gained? The pharmaceutical companies are making billions from the vaccines, and can't be sued for adverse reactions to them. Ivermectin is a cheap drug, available in generic form that nobody will profit greatly from.

Also, I have no agenda here touting ivermectin, except that I believe it could save lives. It is extremely safe when used correctly, and I only post this for people who get covid. Why not try a safe drug that many, many doctors say destroys covid if you take it early enough? I don't understand the war being waged against this drug that has saved many lives even before covid.

This virus has already taken too many lives. I know of some that died never having heard of ivermectin. To me that's criminal. I want to make sure that I let as many people as possible know they have a choice to take this medication. If they choose not to take it, at least they made an informed choice.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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planoaggie123 said:

Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

gonemaroon said:

That's a fact in a lot of locations. Family member works in a small town ER / and they are literally giving zip to patients. Posters have been posting on Texags for a while to this fact also. Friends have had similar experiences and hell my brother's Dr. flat out told him if he gets sick there's zippo one can do to treat covid so just take the vacccine.
What your brother's doctor said is mostly accurate, outside of monoclonal antibody infusions, and even that has pretty poor efficacy for preventing severe disease. This is why you see so many physicians stressing the importance of getting vaccinated because we really have nothing else that is very effective until you are at the point of requiring oxygen.

What is this based on? I have seen multiple articles / studies that seem to show reduction in severe / hospitalization in the 70% / 80% range if taken within a few days of symptoms. Seems like FDA's EUA sort of shows some belief in the ability of it to work...right?


Above is a chart from the RECOVERY trials double blind RCT on use of Regeneron's monoclonal antibody cocktail. The benefit was primarily only seen in those that are seronegative; however, assessing for antibody status is not common practice prior to initiating administration of monoclonal antibodies. When given to all comers, the benefit vanishes. There even appears to be a trend towards harm in those that have already developed antibodies (seropositive).
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Zobel
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You say you have biases, which is good, but then you go on to affirm those biases in every possible way. Why make a nod to impartiality when you're not even going to try?

As for ivermectin... it doesn't matter who says what. All that matters is evidence. Expert testimony is not evidence. The evidence for ivermectin is not mountainous or overwhelming. A lot of the most compelling evidence appears to be fraudulent.

At this point it looks like it probably doesn't do anything. It's HCQ 2.0.
Petrino1
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LSB_2002 said:

ea1060 said:

curry97 said:

What was the dosage you took for the long haul symptoms?
The first time I took 15MG (5 pills at once) on day 1 and day 3. The second time I took 15 MG 4 days in a row, and again 1 week later.
What long haul symptoms did you have? I'm curious, as i feel that i have some symptoms, 7 months post covid. Also, my wife and I dosed Ivermectin during our stint and had minor congestion and some tiredness. Obvious loss of taste and smell were the tell tell signs (positive tests for both of us afterwards).

We have this horrible taste and smell situation going on now, as does our 13 year old daughter.
I never lost my taste and smell but I have all the other main covid symptoms: Fatigue, feverish/warm feeling, ear ache, hot flashes, chills, brain fog, muscle pain. Some days its hard to get out of bed or do any work. After taking the pfizer vaccine 4 months ago now I have frequent dizzy/light headed spells and forearm pain.
planoaggie123
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I will not pretend to fully grasp all that and you are 100% the doctor and I am not.

However, I think i found your survey and it seems, though could be wrong, the entire population for the study is people admitted to the hospital which sort of lends itself to limited benefits as it relates to the antibody treatment.

The benefits of this treatment are BEFORE hospital, right? Like 3 - 5 days after symptoms start and before oxygen is needed....


Edit: I do see your comments under. So seems like based on the study and what you are saying....if you know you do not have antibodies and you take it early enough, there is very much a benefit ("a significant reduction in mortality" per the study conclusions).

For those with antibody, I can see how they might have limited benefit but those individuals are likely already lower-risk...right?
FlyRod
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Quote:

Most viruses don't have direct treatments.

This times squadpillion. That's we have vaccines.

All these strange, almost Medieval conversations about (still scientifically unproven "treatments" would not be clogging up social media platforms if people would just take a free and effective vaccine.
planoaggie123
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PJYoung said:

planoaggie123 said:

Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

gonemaroon said:

That's a fact in a lot of locations. Family member works in a small town ER / and they are literally giving zip to patients. Posters have been posting on Texags for a while to this fact also. Friends have had similar experiences and hell my brother's Dr. flat out told him if he gets sick there's zippo one can do to treat covid so just take the vacccine.
What your brother's doctor said is mostly accurate, outside of monoclonal antibody infusions, and even that has pretty poor efficacy for preventing severe disease. This is why you see so many physicians stressing the importance of getting vaccinated because we really have nothing else that is very effective until you are at the point of requiring oxygen.

What is this based on? I have seen multiple articles / studies that seem to show reduction in severe / hospitalization in the 70% / 80% range if taken within a few days of symptoms. Seems like FDA's EUA sort of shows some belief in the ability of it to work...right?


There are no double blinded studies that show it helps. The largest study was actually halted mid way because of the results.

It's gone the HCQ route, much loved by the right over the vaccine with no provable results.
So we should expect a swift retraction of the FDA's EUA? Or have they already. I just see the authortization.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-monoclonal-antibodies-treatment-covid-19
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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planoaggie123 said:

I will not pretend to fully grasp all that and you are 100% the doctor and I am not.

However, I think i found your survey and it seems, though could be wrong, the entire population for the study is people admitted to the hospital which sort of lends itself to limited benefits as it relates to the antibody treatment.

The benefits of this treatment are BEFORE hospital, right? Like 3 - 5 days after symptoms start and before oxygen is needed....
This or those that have not developed antibodies. Most of the COVID patients that come to an ER are typically a week into their symptoms, which is much too late in the disease course to receive monoclonal antibody therapy. There appears to be legitimate benefit to early treatment with monoclonals, but it is certainly not a cure, and should not take the place of getting vaccinated.

Edit: But yes, you are correct that the above information from the RECOVERY trial's RCT are in hospitalized patients.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
snowdog90
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gonemaroon said:

That's a fact in a lot of locations. Family member works in a small town ER / and they are literally giving zip to patients. Posters have been posting on Texags for a while to this fact also. Friends have had similar experiences and hell my brother's Dr. flat out told him if he gets sick there's zippo one can do to treat covid so just take the vacccine.


I know this is going on, I wonder how prevalent it is. I just can't understand prescribing no meds for someone with covid.
planoaggie123
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

planoaggie123 said:

I will not pretend to fully grasp all that and you are 100% the doctor and I am not.

However, I think i found your survey and it seems, though could be wrong, the entire population for the study is people admitted to the hospital which sort of lends itself to limited benefits as it relates to the antibody treatment.

The benefits of this treatment are BEFORE hospital, right? Like 3 - 5 days after symptoms start and before oxygen is needed....
This or those that have not developed antibodies. Most of the COVID patients that come to an ER are typically a week into their symptoms, which is much too late in the disease course to receive monoclonal antibody therapy. There appears to be legitimate benefit to early treatment with monoclonals, but it is certainly not a cure, and should not take the place of getting vaccinated.

Edit: But yes, you are correct that the above information from the RECOVERY trial's RCT are in hospitalized patients.

All fair points and I don't disagree I just want to make sure people do not mistakenly believe it is not a relatively effective treatment, when applied early. Not saying its perfect but if someone chooses to not get vaccinated and has early symptoms it might be a good idea to look into the treatment....
Zobel
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AG
Most viruses have no treatment.

Prescribing medications that don't work is at best the same as doing nothing, at worst carries additional hazard.

For most people, there is no medication that's going to help. But that's ok, because for most people a full recovery is certain.
LSB_2002
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ea1060 said:

LSB_2002 said:

ea1060 said:

curry97 said:

What was the dosage you took for the long haul symptoms?
The first time I took 15MG (5 pills at once) on day 1 and day 3. The second time I took 15 MG 4 days in a row, and again 1 week later.
What long haul symptoms did you have? I'm curious, as i feel that i have some symptoms, 7 months post covid. Also, my wife and I dosed Ivermectin during our stint and had minor congestion and some tiredness. Obvious loss of taste and smell were the tell tell signs (positive tests for both of us afterwards).

We have this horrible taste and smell situation going on now, as does our 13 year old daughter.
I never lost my taste and smell but I have all the other main covid symptoms: Fatigue, feverish/warm feeling, ear ache, hot flashes, chills, brain fog, muscle pain. Some days its hard to get out of bed or do any work. After taking the pfizer vaccine 4 months ago now I have frequent dizzy/light headed spells and forearm pain.
Dang. I have some of those as well, including brain fog. So, did ivermectin help with some of these issues?

Good to know, if so.
Duncan Idaho
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https://www.scholarsresearchlibrary.com/articles/effects-of-ivermectin-therapy-on-the-sperm-functions-of-nigerian-onchocerciasis-patients.pdf

Well there's this
Mathguy64
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AG
Oh. My. There is about to be a very sharp reduction in the amount of male Ivermectin users.
Duncan Idaho
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I'll allow it
 
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