I just had a thought. . . and I know this is pseudo philosophical/political but I am looking for people's honest thoughts on this issue and figured this might be the forum.

Why is it that the people who seem unwilling to accept "experimental" vaccines (even Pfizer now that it has full approval for 16+) are willing to accept experimental/unauthorized therapies and treatments? Even in the pre-COVID anti-vax crowd that seemed to be the case.

Tribal tendencies, confirmation bias, paranoia, and the inability to not see everything through a political lens.

Forum Troll said:

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Tribal tendencies, confirmation bias, paranoia, and the inability to not see everything through a political lens.

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Username checks out

For the same reason that they think they won't get sick, but then they go the hospital when they have it.

shiftyandquick said:

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For the same reason that they think they won't get sick, but then they go the hospital when they have it.

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Damn. Shaming people for going to the hospital. F84 at its finest!

Bet these folks would've happily taken the "experimental" vaccine if they're capable of retrospect.



https://kfor.com/news/coronavirus/moaning-crying-unable-to-move-photo-shows-florida-covid-19-patient-on-floor-of-antibody-treatment-site/

Also, vaccine substantially cheaper and more effective than the antibody therapies. In fact, the antibody therapies do almost nothing for most people.

Old Buffalo said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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For the same reason that they think they won't get sick, but then they go the hospital when they have it.

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Damn. Shaming people for going to the hospital. F84 at its finest!

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Yup, shaming people for making dumb decisions which then unnecessarily utilize resources and take up space that is taxing on hospital staff, healthcare systems, and is leading to deaths of people for reasons unrelated to COVID.

At what point do we stop treating people like children and start calling them out for their dumb decisions?

Same time we treat the other 65% of inpatients the same way.

Oh, heart attack? Should have not eaten those cheese burgers.
Car wreck? Should have been a more careful driver.
[Insert opinion on cancer, smoking, etc. here]

When you begin dictating someone's treatment based on your own beliefs, you have created death panels.

It honestly sickens me how quickly the movement of "if it saves one life" changed to "if it saves the approved life."

My 40+ year old brother has not gotten vaccinated. He's afraid of the potential side effects. But he also believes God has his back, because God has a purpose for him. I told him maybe God inspired me to tell him to get vaccinated, so he can fulfill his purpose.

I share this because I think a lot of people out there share his mindset. Almost like you're demonstrating your faith in God by not getting vaccinated.

Old Buffalo said:

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Same time we treat the other 65% of inpatients the same way.

Oh, heart attack? Should have not eaten those cheese burgers.
Car wreck? Should have been a more careful driver.
[Insert opinion on cancer, smoking, etc. here]

When you begin dictating someone's treatment based on your own beliefs, you have created death panels.

It honestly sickens me how quickly the movement of "if it saves one life" changed to "if it saves the approved life."

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Show me one example of someone dictating treatment based on their own beliefs regarding this vaccine? I've seen lots of hypothetical examples, and I've seen people thinking that doctor's clinics that want to disenroll unvaccinated patients are denying patients life saving treatment, but I have yet to see it actually play out. If two people present with COVID, equally sick, but one is vaccinated, and there's limited resources, the vaccinated one has a better probability of surviving (all other variables being equal). That's simple rationing of resources and happens all the time in mass casualty incidents.

Heart disease, cancer, COPD, etc., are long brewing disorders that take a while to develop, and are hard to mitigate once the process has started. If there was a cheap and highly effective instant cure/prevention for any of those, and people refused it, then came to the hospital later begging for help and a 50,000+ bill, I'd absolutely think they were stupid to not take the highly effective alternative.

shiftyandquick said:

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My 40+ year old brother has not gotten vaccinated. He's afraid of the potential side effects. But he also believes God has his back, because God has a purpose for him. I told him maybe God inspired me to tell him to get vaccinated, so he can fulfill his purpose.

I share this because I think a lot of people out there share his mindset. Almost like you're demonstrating your faith in God by not getting vaccinated.

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I believe in God. But I also believe God would want me to wear a seatbelt while driving, or wear a helmet when I ride my bike.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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Old Buffalo said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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For the same reason that they think they won't get sick, but then they go the hospital when they have it.

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Damn. Shaming people for going to the hospital. F84 at its finest!

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Yup, shaming people for making dumb decisions which then unnecessarily utilize resources and take up space that is taxing on hospital staff, healthcare systems, and is leading to deaths of people for reasons unrelated to COVID.

At what point do we stop treating people like children and start calling them out for their dumb decisions?

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Covid has been around for 18 months. We know who it mostly affects. Most overweight people could be healthy by now. They are just as bad as people who won't get the vaccine.

Yet they get a pass.

Short of mass casualty events such as natural disasters, extreme heat, building collapse, shooting, etc I'm not coming up with too many scenarios that surge in the same way this pandemic has and in such a coast to coast manner. One could rail upon the sufferers of heart attacks, the accident victims, and the cancer sufferers but they don't tend to show up in an ER en masse I would think. Perhaps during a flu epidemic one would have a high number of very ill people present to the hospital with secondary infections--pneumonia being the most likely one, but again--there is a flu vaccine for that one, even if the strain is not always an exact match.

Most of us take our health for granted. Some people try a little harder to work on preventative care. I know my insurance company has little reminders for various checkups and lots of little carrots/rewards because that works for some folks. For others, the only thing that changes behavior is a big stick and a big bill.

As to the experimental choices? I can't say for sure. It probably depends a lot upon various influences in their lives like their information sources and who they trust the most. What they believe their risk to be seems to be high on the list as well. Some of the people I've read about in the news underestimate their risk while others overestimate it. That may be another factor as well.

Maybe it's the same mentality which would force kids to bear the brunt of the pandemic even though they account for 365 total covid deaths (ages 0-17) from the beginning of the pandemic.

shiftyandquick said:

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For the same reason that they think they won't get sick, but then they go the hospital when they have it.

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Yeah, it's weird that their last posts from family members are from hospitals. Don't want the vaccine, derp. But still go to the hospital. Then suddenly to "please save me" with whatever EUA drugs you can find! Derp.

shiftyandquick said:

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My 40+ year old brother has not gotten vaccinated. He's afraid of the potential side effects. But he also believes God has his back, because God has a purpose for him. I told him maybe God inspired me to tell him to get vaccinated, so he can fulfill his purpose.

I share this because I think a lot of people out there share his mindset. Almost like you're demonstrating your faith in God by not getting vaccinated.

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A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, "I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me."

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, "We're leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!" But the man declined. "I have faith that God will save me."

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, "Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!" But the man again said, "No thanks, God will save me."

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. "We will come up and rescue you!" they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, "Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!"
The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. "No thank you! God will save me!"

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, "I put all of my faith in You. Why didn't You come and save me?"

And God said, "Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?"