Not trolling, just speaking the truth. Glad you are raising healthy kids. Much like covid there are exceptions for everything.Knucklesammich said:rudy99 said:Classic example of this entire "pandemic." Someone writes an article as fact, big fear momgering headline. Then comes the back track and corrections but no one retracts the headline.PJYoung said:"If North Texas runs out of ICU hospital beds, doctors can consider a patient’s vaccination status"https://t.co/lEBqaStGLd
— Christian Vanderbrouk (@UrbanAchievr) August 19, 2021
Now let's do fat people, alcoholics, and drug users. And before you say they don't hurt other people, let's go to the numbers on drunk driving, drug crimes, and fat parents raising fat kids.
Such a disgrace of a headline.
I ain't skinny of course my thyroid barely functions but my kids are healthy. The trolling on this thread is obnoxious.
If N Texas runs out of ICU beds, doctors can consider a patient's vaccine status
8,307 Views |
102 Replies |
Last: 3 yr ago by Fat Black Swan
Most private insurers are no longer waiving cost-sharing for COVID-19 treatment- https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/most-private-insurers-are-no-longer-waiving-cost-sharing-for-covid-19-treatment/?
This is what they are doing in China with their Social Credit Score. Don't try to put lipstick on it.
The fact that anyone is considering this in the medical community indicates we have lost our way as a society.
General Omar '79
Close to it? You shame fat daily on this forum.
Are you planning on going next-level and yelling at people in public? What would this shaming look like?
Are you planning on going next-level and yelling at people in public? What would this shaming look like?
cc_ag92 said:
Close to it? You shame fat daily on this forum.
Are you planning on going next-level and yelling at people in public? What would this shaming look like?
Sorry I don't want to shame but when over 70% of COVID hospitalizations are overweight or obese it's hard not to call out.
My kids may have to be muzzled in school soon because of the overrun on hospitals due to people's poor life health choices. If we did not have a weight / obese issue in this country we would not have a COVID hospitalization issue and my kids could be normal in school.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughly-78percent-of-people-hospitalized-were-overweight-or-obese.html
Edit: full disclosureI was in overweight category by a few pounds early in COVID. Once it became obvious how impacted people are that are overweight and have heart issues I have completely changed diet and increased exercise and lost 20 pounds and now in healthy BMI range. I made lifestyle changes and feel better.
Edit 2: this is a hospitalization debate so I would pose why would a healthy unvaccinated person be put in the back of the line to an overweight vaccinated. Just wrong. Overweight Is fueling this pandemic.
Should've put the french fries down, should've looked both ways, should've made better choices in choosing a spouse. We shouldn't treat these people either.jenn96 said:Stroke, heart attack, hit by car, shot by jealous spouse- lots of non-covid reasons.03_Aggie said:
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
A virus is fueling the pandemic. This thread is about non vaccinated folks and a click bait headline.
But as on every thread it has to be about masks and the same arguments about how only lolfats and olds are at danger.
If your kids are forced to wear masks that's a local issue you should take up with your school board. I'm truly sorry they have to wear masks, I'm not sure they'll recover from the trauma. But bringing it up on every thread the same tired talking point is idiotic.
I don't think kids should wear masks in school either, I just got back from a work trip out of state, I'm taking my older daughter to a soccer tournament. I live normally as possible and am not convinced that masks do much at all. I agree with the sentiment but stop turning every thread into a
Mask debate.
But as on every thread it has to be about masks and the same arguments about how only lolfats and olds are at danger.
If your kids are forced to wear masks that's a local issue you should take up with your school board. I'm truly sorry they have to wear masks, I'm not sure they'll recover from the trauma. But bringing it up on every thread the same tired talking point is idiotic.
I don't think kids should wear masks in school either, I just got back from a work trip out of state, I'm taking my older daughter to a soccer tournament. I live normally as possible and am not convinced that masks do much at all. I agree with the sentiment but stop turning every thread into a
Mask debate.
It's a motte and bailey argument. Masks are the motte, covid isn't serious, or in other variants it's all a conspiracy, is the bailey. Over and over and over.
03_Aggie said:
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
Almost 3% of Americans are immunocompromised. That group of people, unfortunately is exposed to your personal responsibility.
NicosMachine said:You should first consider the patient's weight since weight is the single most important variable in determining Covid outcomes, not vaccination status.PJYoung said:"If North Texas runs out of ICU hospital beds, doctors can consider a patient’s vaccination status"https://t.co/lEBqaStGLd
— Christian Vanderbrouk (@UrbanAchievr) August 19, 2021
That's not a true statement but I know being obese is waaaay up there for risk factors.
Bingo. Additionally, can we stop comparing things that are not contagious and that have no readily available FREE vaccine that reduces the chance you need an ICU bed by magnitudes?Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Has this ever come up for any other disease ever?
In other words, is this actually a medical move or is it a social move?
In other words, is this actually a medical move or is it a social move?
Good. The enormous cost to care for people in the ICU is going to be born by someone and eventually it will all of us who pay taxes or purchase insurance. It's offensive to me that my insurance cost will rise to care for uninsured people who turn their noses up at free vaccines. Insured people who choose risk should accept the consequences of their choices rather then expect the rest of us to have our rates rates to cover their expenses.bigtruckguy3500 said:
Most private insurers are no longer waiving cost-sharing for COVID-19 treatment- https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/most-private-insurers-are-no-longer-waiving-cost-sharing-for-covid-19-treatment/?
Triage is a thing. They use different criteria to evaluate patients when you don't have enough resources to treat both. Thinking like this is most often used probably for transplants.
This is a sticky subject. Honestly I doubt this policy ever comes to fruition. However. I have been doing this for a long time. And - TBH, the vast majority of hospitalized pts (non covid) I've seen are admitted because of, to a large degree, some poor personal lifestyle decisions (frequently multiple ones). Such as obesity, medical non-compliance, smoking, refusal to see physicians for well visit, drugs, alcohol, and the list goes on. So - if hospitals were rationing these pts, few people would get admitted.
As far as rationing who gets an ICU bed - based on the chance of survival which was done in Italy - I will say unvaccinated pt are having far worse outcomes than vaccinated ones. But - I doubt any rationing occurs here with the resources in the USA (field hospitals etc).
As far as rationing who gets an ICU bed - based on the chance of survival which was done in Italy - I will say unvaccinated pt are having far worse outcomes than vaccinated ones. But - I doubt any rationing occurs here with the resources in the USA (field hospitals etc).
When do the doctors get to decide based on genetics.? Your DNA will eventually be loaded into your vaccine passport and it will decide your status on being allowed in the hospital and even whether you can breed. But not on voting though, never on voting.
https://i.postimg.cc/rpHKr9JQ/IMG-0770.jpg
I searched on google for "percentage of united states adults overweight bmi" and it says 74% of Americans are overweight on their BMI. If I am understanding this correctly, being in the normal weight category on your BMI doesn't make as much of a difference versus overweight. We all know that being morbidly obese make a massive difference but you brought up the overweight people too.planoaggie123 said:cc_ag92 said:
Close to it? You shame fat daily on this forum.
Are you planning on going next-level and yelling at people in public? What would this shaming look like?
Sorry I don't want to shame but when over 70% of COVID hospitalizations are overweight or obese it's hard not to call out.
My kids may have to be muzzled in school soon because of the overrun on hospitals due to people's poor life health choices. If we did not have a weight / obese issue in this country we would not have a COVID hospitalization issue and my kids could be normal in school.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughly-78percent-of-people-hospitalized-were-overweight-or-obese.html
Edit: full disclosureI was in overweight category by a few pounds early in COVID. Once it became obvious how impacted people are that are overweight and have heart issues I have completely changed diet and increased exercise and lost 20 pounds and now in healthy BMI range. I made lifestyle changes and feel better.
Edit 2: this is a hospitalization debate so I would pose why would a healthy unvaccinated person be put in the back of the line to an overweight vaccinated. Just wrong. Overweight Is fueling this pandemic.
Quote:
And - TBH, the vast majority of hospitalized pts (non covid) I've seen are admitted because of, to a large degree, some poor personal lifestyle decisions (frequently multiple ones). Such as obesity, medical non-compliance, smoking, refusal to see physicians for well visit, drugs, alcohol, and the list goes on. So - if hospitals were rationing these pts, few people would get admitted.
I was thinking that might be the case...but these personal decisions and their effect on personal health have never been brought up (and so heartily endorsed by some) before. Some diseases have politics attached to them (AIDS, various "Women's" health issues, and now COVID).
No matter how many beds filled up with AIDS patients I can't imagine a hospital deprioritizing Gays or Intravenous drug users let alone announce it beforehand as a possibility.
If you don't think doctors make decisions based on things like that you're fooling yourself.
Man what you're suggesting is maleficence. I've never seen it. Including the uninsured for which we don't get paid. But I've trained and worked at good places with doctors and staff with moral conscience.Zobel said:
If you don't think doctors make decisions based on things like that you're fooling yourself.
It's not a "vaccinated -- gets bed" or "unvaccinated -- doesn't" type of decision.
It's one part of a broader assessment. An unvaccinated, 40-year-old, otherwise healthy individual might have priority over a vaccinated 90-year-old with multiple complications. It's just another data point in triaging who has the best possibility of survival.
Hopefully the docs don't have to make many -- or any -- of those decisions.
It's one part of a broader assessment. An unvaccinated, 40-year-old, otherwise healthy individual might have priority over a vaccinated 90-year-old with multiple complications. It's just another data point in triaging who has the best possibility of survival.
Hopefully the docs don't have to make many -- or any -- of those decisions.
I think you're taking it further than I intended. Docs work harder for some patients than others, that's human nature.
Zobel said:
If you don't think doctors make decisions based on things like that you're fooling yourself.
Perhaps...but my point is this: Have you ever seen them publish it the newspaper before?
Yes. There is an ongoing discussion about ethical considerations for triaging patients during this pandemic.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bioe.12805
https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/138/1/5/6289889
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8014048/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651791/
https://spcare.bmj.com/content/11/2/133
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bioe.12805
https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/138/1/5/6289889
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8014048/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651791/
https://spcare.bmj.com/content/11/2/133
Zobel said:
Yes. There is an ongoing discussion about ethical considerations for triaging patients during this pandemic.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bioe.12805
https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/138/1/5/6289889
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8014048/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651791/
https://spcare.bmj.com/content/11/2/133
Yes...this pandemic. Again, that is my point.
Triage is done when you don't have the resources available to treat everyone.
I bet you every single hospital has some kind of triage policy in place. I also bet before this they didn't need it very often.
I bet you every single hospital has some kind of triage policy in place. I also bet before this they didn't need it very often.
This is what it's about. They are mainly saying that IF it got down to having to turn people away, they would take vaccinated over unvaccinated for COVID issues. John Doe is hit by a drunk driver. He will NEED a bed. Jane Doe is an unvaccinated covid sufferer potentially needing a bed. John would get the bed. Jane may die, but there are things that can be done for her from home. I doubt this is about whether John Doe got the vaccine. It's more about not allowing unvaxed covid patients into the hospital at a certain point for complications regarding Covid. John Doe is bleeding out. They are not checking his vax status....jenn96 said:Stroke, heart attack, hit by car, shot by jealous spouse- lots of non-covid reasons.03_Aggie said:
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
At least this is the way I understood it. While I doubt we get to that level, I do not necessarily have an issue with it. More of a hypothetical situation where some beds will need to be left open for other non covid patients. I could be wrong of course. And lets be honest, it won't happen. You might get to be in the hallway but this particular spike won't go there and it is more of a "get vaccinated damit!" situation/warning.
Zobel said:
Triage is done when you don't have the resources available to treat everyone.
I bet you every single hospital has some kind of triage policy in place. I also bet before this they didn't need it very often.
When have you ever seen it published as a threat before?
Never, including the OP as it was basically a leak.
SoupNazi2001 said:bay fan said:Bingo. Additionally, can we stop comparing things that are not contagious and that have no readily available FREE vaccine that reduces the chance you need an ICU bed by magnitudes?Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Obesity is not contagious but is far more expensive on the medical system than Covid. Cure is actually really simple too.
Obese people can get to a normal healthy weight in a couple of weeks with just a couple of shots?
Zobel said:
I think you're taking it further than I intended. Docs work harder for some patients than others, that's human nature.
How many doctors do you work with? This is a ridiculous take.
Featured Stories
See All
12:54
11h ago
5.0k
Offering a behind-the-scenes a look at February signees of the past
by Ryan Brauninger
14:10
10h ago
2.4k
Where A&M's NCAA Tournament resume sits entering the bye week
by Luke Evangelist