"If North Texas runs out of ICU hospital beds, doctors can consider a patient’s vaccination status"https://t.co/lEBqaStGLd
— Christian Vanderbrouk (@UrbanAchievr) August 19, 2021
If N Texas runs out of ICU beds, doctors can consider a patient's vaccine status
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102 Replies |
Last: 3 yr ago by Fat Black Swan
Is this just for Covid cases or any hospitalization? Either way it's pretty impressive how far we have come from "just 15 days"
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
What if the hospital is full in general and only or two beds available
Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
Absolutely. Look at the transplant list. The patient who quit smoking will get a lung before the patient sneaking out of their hospital room to keep smoking.
In a situation with limited resources, you have to devote the resources you have to people with the best chance to realistically benefit from them. Triage is an ugly thing.
Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Our society has lost its feel for unintended consequences. Just wait until they start turning dying Americans away from hospitals because of their choices. Ready for those repercussions?
Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Our society has lost its feel for unintended consequences. Just wait until they start turning dying Americans away from hospitals because of their choices. Ready for those repercussions?
What about personal responsibility?
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
Salute The Marines said:Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Our society has lost its feel for unintended consequences. Just wait until they start turning dying Americans away from hospitals because of their choices. Ready for those repercussions?
What about personal responsibility?
Weird pivot. Completely unrelated.
Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Our society has lost its feel for unintended consequences. Just wait until they start turning dying Americans away from hospitals because of their choices. Ready for those repercussions?
What about personal responsibility?
Weird pivot. Completely unrelated.
If your phone is nicer than mine, your car is newer than mine, your house is worth more than mine, and your job pays more than mine, and you celebrated the end of the Obama Care individual mandate by choosing not to purchase coverage, I will nevertheless foot the bill for any catastrophic losses that you incur. America is all about individual responsibility, right?
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
03_Aggie said:
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
94chem said:Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Our society has lost its feel for unintended consequences. Just wait until they start turning dying Americans away from hospitals because of their choices. Ready for those repercussions?
What about personal responsibility?
Weird pivot. Completely unrelated.
If your phone is nicer than mine, your car is newer than mine, your house is worth more than mine, and your job pays more than mine, and you celebrated the end of the Obama Care individual mandate by choosing not to purchase coverage, I will nevertheless foot the bill for any catastrophic losses that you incur. America is all about individual responsibility, right?
You're making a similar point that he was, which means you're completely missing the point. Things have been too good for people to be able to envision what will happen I guess.
Wait until the newly labeled underclass hears about this. Then wait to see what happens when the unwashed are denied care in a country where it's legal to own firearms.
If there is only room for 1 more and it's between a vaccinated and non-vaccinated I think it'd be right to give it to the unvaccinated because greater chance that they die than vaccinated.
Dan Scott said:
If there is only room for 1 more and it's between a vaccinated and non-vaccinated I think it'd be right to give it to the unvaccinated because greater chance that they die than vaccinated.
Yep. But only some math and science matters.
Stroke, heart attack, hit by car, shot by jealous spouse- lots of non-covid reasons.03_Aggie said:
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
03_Aggie said:
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
It's rare but it happens.
I've taken care of many people in my life who have made different choices than I would have made. It's part of medicine. I've never considered treating them differently for it though. Ethically, it would be wrong.
Salute The Marines said:Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Our society has lost its feel for unintended consequences. Just wait until they start turning dying Americans away from hospitals because of their choices. Ready for those repercussions?
What about personal responsibility?
You post some REALLY dumb ****, but you also post stuff I agree with. Head scratcher really.
jenn96 said:Stroke, heart attack, hit by car, shot by jealous spouse- lots of non-covid reasons.03_Aggie said:
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
And why would vaccination status be a consideration in those scenarios?
If you have one ICU bed, and one patient is a car crash victim and the other an unvaccinated severe Covid case. The vaccination of the car crash victim isn't an issue, but lack of vaccination of the Covid patient gives them lower priority.
I don't we will actually see much of this; most medical facilities are going to treat every patient to the max of their ability no matter how little personal responsibility they took. It's just a way to try and pressure people getting vaccinated, and won't work. No one refusing vaccination thinks they're remotely at risk of being hospitalized.
I don't we will actually see much of this; most medical facilities are going to treat every patient to the max of their ability no matter how little personal responsibility they took. It's just a way to try and pressure people getting vaccinated, and won't work. No one refusing vaccination thinks they're remotely at risk of being hospitalized.
I'm going to speculate here, but if I understood the original document/article correctly it is for a scenario of not enough ICU beds and multiple candidates.
For example: ambulances arrive and there are more potential patients needing care than places and staff to treat them.
Patient 1: young male in car accident, age 22--vaccinated--condition critical long term outlook potentially okay via surgery etc--
Patient 2: older male with COVID, age 45--unvaccinated--condition critical long term outlook depending upon stabilizing vitals/treating oxygen levels, etc
Patient 3: elderly male with COVID, age 85--vaccinated--condition critical and immunocompromised due to cancer treatment for ongoing disease, long term outlook depending upon variety of factors.
Three patients, variables come into play on who gets the bed. The news article is a little misleading, in that this type of situation would only materialize if there was no possibility for transfer, etc but yeah, someone has to make some tough decisions and the likely outcome is the younger vaccinated car accident victim gets the bed not so much due to vaccination status as much as the best outlook and probably the shortest ICU stay, which frees up the bed sooner. The vaccination status would only be one of the considerations, but if it came down to two COVID patients then perhaps it would be weighed against the, again, long term outlook of recovery?
Edit--jenn96 explained it better.
For example: ambulances arrive and there are more potential patients needing care than places and staff to treat them.
Patient 1: young male in car accident, age 22--vaccinated--condition critical long term outlook potentially okay via surgery etc--
Patient 2: older male with COVID, age 45--unvaccinated--condition critical long term outlook depending upon stabilizing vitals/treating oxygen levels, etc
Patient 3: elderly male with COVID, age 85--vaccinated--condition critical and immunocompromised due to cancer treatment for ongoing disease, long term outlook depending upon variety of factors.
Three patients, variables come into play on who gets the bed. The news article is a little misleading, in that this type of situation would only materialize if there was no possibility for transfer, etc but yeah, someone has to make some tough decisions and the likely outcome is the younger vaccinated car accident victim gets the bed not so much due to vaccination status as much as the best outlook and probably the shortest ICU stay, which frees up the bed sooner. The vaccination status would only be one of the considerations, but if it came down to two COVID patients then perhaps it would be weighed against the, again, long term outlook of recovery?
Edit--jenn96 explained it better.
True. And interesting to see a pivot on this forum.94chem said:Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Sandman98 said:Salute The Marines said:Aggie95 said:
Can they treat lung cancer patients based on if they smoke?
If the hospitals were full of lung cancer patients I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Our society has lost its feel for unintended consequences. Just wait until they start turning dying Americans away from hospitals because of their choices. Ready for those repercussions?
What about personal responsibility?
Weird pivot. Completely unrelated.
If your phone is nicer than mine, your car is newer than mine, your house is worth more than mine, and your job pays more than mine, and you celebrated the end of the Obama Care individual mandate by choosing not to purchase coverage, I will nevertheless foot the bill for any catastrophic losses that you incur. America is all about individual responsibility, right?
During all the Obamacare debates on this forum over the years, mostly centered around whether an individual has a right to someone else's labor, I never once saw someone suggest that if a doctor refused to treat someone would violence come into play. Maybe I missed it. Or maybe refusing to treat someone because of pay issues is different than refusing to treat someone who declined a free vaccine to avoid hospitalization.
I dunno. I think some people are going a little crazy.
Dan Scott said:
If there is only room for 1 more and it's between a vaccinated and non-vaccinated I think it'd be right to give it to the unvaccinated because greater chance that they die than vaccinated.
Why wouldn't you want to give the bed to the patient more likely to survive rather than the patient more likely to die? Or did you mean more likely to die without going into ICU?
I've got no idea what the actual numbers are, but let's assume 50% of unvaccinated that go to ICU end up dying while only 25% of vaccinated that go to ICU die, taking all emotion out of it and looking strictly at the math, wouldn't giving the bed to vaccinated make more sense?
Of course that assumes the 2 patients are equally sick and the only factors that play a role in survival are vaccination status which is completely unrealistic.
Fwiw, I'm not advocating making the decision based on vaccination status.
I'll have to double check but I'm pretty sure the state dashboards had the hospitals more full last year than now so this all seems rather academic. Especially with numbers appearing to have peaked.
unmade bed said:Dan Scott said:
If there is only room for 1 more and it's between a vaccinated and non-vaccinated I think it'd be right to give it to the unvaccinated because greater chance that they die than vaccinated.
Why wouldn't you want to give the bed to the patient more likely to survive rather than the patient more likely to die?
America loves an underdog?
How about morbidly obese vaccinated vs healthy unvaccinated?
Does a lifetime of healthy choices get trumped by a decades long donut loving person getting a shot??
Does a lifetime of healthy choices get trumped by a decades long donut loving person getting a shot??
03_Aggie said:
Why would vaccinated people be in the hospital?
Did somebody tell you that the vaccine makes people indestructible? Because people go to the hospital for lots of reasons that aren't covid.
Unvaccinated car crash (hit by drunk driver) vs vaccinated morbid obese heart attack.who do you care for?
Classic example of this entire "pandemic." Someone writes an article as fact, big fear momgering headline. Then comes the back track and corrections but no one retracts the headline.PJYoung said:"If North Texas runs out of ICU hospital beds, doctors can consider a patient’s vaccination status"https://t.co/lEBqaStGLd
— Christian Vanderbrouk (@UrbanAchievr) August 19, 2021
Now let's do fat people, alcoholics, and drug users. And before you say they don't hurt other people, let's go to the numbers on drunk driving, drug crimes, and fat parents raising fat kids.
Such a disgrace of a headline.
I am on board. I am getting close to begin public shaming of fat people. If we are going to shame people for no masks and no vax time to shame for fat.
rudy99 said:Classic example of this entire "pandemic." Someone writes an article as fact, big fear momgering headline. Then comes the back track and corrections but no one retracts the headline.PJYoung said:"If North Texas runs out of ICU hospital beds, doctors can consider a patient’s vaccination status"https://t.co/lEBqaStGLd
— Christian Vanderbrouk (@UrbanAchievr) August 19, 2021
Now let's do fat people, alcoholics, and drug users. And before you say they don't hurt other people, let's go to the numbers on drunk driving, drug crimes, and fat parents raising fat kids.
Such a disgrace of a headline.
I ain't skinny of course my thyroid barely functions but my kids are healthy. The trolling on this thread is obnoxious.
You should first consider the patient's weight since weight is the single most important variable in determining Covid outcomes, not vaccination status.PJYoung said:"If North Texas runs out of ICU hospital beds, doctors can consider a patient’s vaccination status"https://t.co/lEBqaStGLd
— Christian Vanderbrouk (@UrbanAchievr) August 19, 2021
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