Thanks

Salute The Marines said:

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SamHou said:

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Not if you space the desks out to more than 6ft from each other

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So recess is only 12 minutes or are we cancelling that too in order to keep kids "healthy"?

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Don't know how they do things in your woods, but here recess is outdoors with no masks

JesusQuintana said:

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This is going to sound crazy, but there are places in texas where folks can live that don't require masking on children. I live 25 miles from a major city in texas and our covid policy for High School per the principal at orientation last night was to stay home if you are covid pos and return 24 hours after fever subsides. If your child has been exposed, it is a parental judgement call on whether or not you want to send them to school. There are no masking mandates and very few staff, parents and kids that attended last night had them on.

It's baffling to me how people constantly complain about the horror their children have to deal with in school but yet do nothing about it...other than complain.

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What ISF is this? Thanks.

JDL 96 said:

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JesusQuintana said:

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This is going to sound crazy, but there are places in texas where folks can live that don't require masking on children. I live 25 miles from a major city in texas and our covid policy for High School per the principal at orientation last night was to stay home if you are covid pos and return 24 hours after fever subsides. If your child has been exposed, it is a parental judgement call on whether or not you want to send them to school. There are no masking mandates and very few staff, parents and kids that attended last night had them on.

It's baffling to me how people constantly complain about the horror their children have to deal with in school but yet do nothing about it...other than complain.

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What ISF is this? Thanks.

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DSISD...just west of weird

JesusQuintana said:

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This is going to sound crazy, but there are places in texas where folks can live that don't require masking on children. I live 25 miles from a major city in texas and our covid policy for High School per the principal at orientation last night was to stay home if you are covid pos and return 24 hours after fever subsides. If your child has been exposed, it is a parental judgement call on whether or not you want to send them to school. There are no masking mandates and very few staff, parents and kids that attended last night had them on.

It's baffling to me how people constantly complain about the horror their children have to deal with in school but yet do nothing about it...other than complain.

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Basically sounds like ours in Parker County. Just west of Fort Worth ISD which has gone full Nazi.

JesusQuintana said:

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JDL 96 said:

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JesusQuintana said:

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This is going to sound crazy, but there are places in texas where folks can live that don't require masking on children. I live 25 miles from a major city in texas and our covid policy for High School per the principal at orientation last night was to stay home if you are covid pos and return 24 hours after fever subsides. If your child has been exposed, it is a parental judgement call on whether or not you want to send them to school. There are no masking mandates and very few staff, parents and kids that attended last night had them on.

It's baffling to me how people constantly complain about the horror their children have to deal with in school but yet do nothing about it...other than complain.

---

What ISF is this? Thanks.

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DSISD...just west of weird

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Where is DSISD? Thanks. Dallas Is nuts.

JDL 96 said:

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JesusQuintana said:

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JDL 96 said:

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JesusQuintana said:

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This is going to sound crazy, but there are places in texas where folks can live that don't require masking on children. I live 25 miles from a major city in texas and our covid policy for High School per the principal at orientation last night was to stay home if you are covid pos and return 24 hours after fever subsides. If your child has been exposed, it is a parental judgement call on whether or not you want to send them to school. There are no masking mandates and very few staff, parents and kids that attended last night had them on.

It's baffling to me how people constantly complain about the horror their children have to deal with in school but yet do nothing about it...other than complain.

---

What ISF is this? Thanks.

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DSISD...just west of weird

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Where is DSISD? Thanks. Dallas Is nuts.

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Dripping Springs

I'm not familiar with the group that published this, but this seems to line up with everything that we can observe in the real world. Why hasn't anyone brought this up?

ORAggieFan said:

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This is from CDC Data. Info on the website given

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I really like this chart. I'm assuming it is based off pre-Delta COVID?

I suspect the numbers look even worse with the current data suggesting Delta is significantly more transmissible.

19 posts and still no answer to the OP

KidDoc said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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This is from CDC Data. Info on the website given

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I really like this chart. I'm assuming it is based off pre-Delta COVID?

I suspect the numbers look even worse with the current data suggesting Delta is significantly more transmissible.

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I think this is an interesting point to think about. Previous mask mandates didn't seem to do much. My suspicion is that was a result of the fact that most covid transmission was happening at places where mandates were basically unenforceable (at home, small gatherings, offices) . I don't really think with the original strain that anyone was catching it walking around a Costco.

With a strain that is much more transmissible the calculation might change. But it's hard to predict in what way. Individually, masks could be worse at preventing delta spread, and yet still be more effective policy, if transmission is happening in more public settings.

Salute The Marines said:

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So basically a cloth mask in a classroom buys 12 minutes. In a classroom where kids sit for hours every day.

School mask mandates are theater.

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And the above chart assumes they all properly wear their mask (i.e. above the nose with it fitted tightly) ALL day. This whole thing is stoked by folks who rely on mass media for info (masks work, the ICU's are full of kids with COVID, etc. etc.).

The parking lot after a school board meeting last night in Franklin, the wealthiest place in Tennessee. Parents harassed medical professionals who had spoken in favor of masks in schools. “We know who you are. You can leave freely, but we will find you.” pic.twitter.com/SzR0uvMeE7

— Natalie Allison (@natalie_allison) August 11, 2021

FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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I'm not trying to start a war. Just want to know if there are any such studies that assess the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of masks. Anything?

TIA

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I think this article offers some insight into the range of issues involved in developing policies around masks.


COVID-19 false dichotomies and a comprehensive review of the evidence regarding public health, COVID-19 symptomatology, SARS-CoV-2 transmission, mask wearing, and reinfection

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8314268/

Go to the section:

False dichotomy 5: Masks for all vs. no masking

they conclude

A key aspect of mask advocacy is accurate messaging, which includes acknowledging the limited utility of mask wearing as a single intervention and cautioning against it as a sufficient alternative to a multilayered use of other NPIs, including physical distancing, ventilation, and limiting time in crowded spaces [55, 57, 424]. The main arguments should be based on scientific evidence rather than on moralistic stances and virtue signaling [54]. It is monumentally frustrating that academics both supporting masks and calling for well-crafted messages, nuanced (not universal) guidance, and further evidence have been misrepresented as anti-mask and accused of flagrant disregard for human lives by some universal masking advocates. The palpable sense of urgency in the COVID-19 pandemic requires a dispassionate discussion and weighing of benefits, risks, and uncertainties along with swift data-driven decision-making that accounts for the cases for and against public health interventions [8, 17, 524, 594, 595].


I am not sure how many will find that satisfying.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

" In 2015, we conducted a randomized controlled trial to compare the efficacy of cloth masks with that of medical masks and controls (standard practice) among healthcare workers in Vietnam (4). Rates of infection were consistently higher among those in the cloth mask group than in the medical mask and control groups. This finding suggests that risk for infection was higher for those wearing cloth masks. "

Cloth masks worse than medical masks and worse than no mask at all. And that's with healthcare workers who presumably know how to wear a mask, and were washing their masks every day. But the average Joe with a room temperature IQ can probably expect worse results with a cloth or medical mask.

plain_o_llama said:

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FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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I'm not trying to start a war. Just want to know if there are any such studies that assess the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of masks. Anything?

TIA

---

I think this article offers some insight into the range of issues involved in developing policies around masks.


COVID-19 false dichotomies and a comprehensive review of the evidence regarding public health, COVID-19 symptomatology, SARS-CoV-2 transmission, mask wearing, and reinfection

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8314268/

Go to the section:

False dichotomy 5: Masks for all vs. no masking

they conclude

A key aspect of mask advocacy is accurate messaging, which includes acknowledging the limited utility of mask wearing as a single intervention and cautioning against it as a sufficient alternative to a multilayered use of other NPIs, including physical distancing, ventilation, and limiting time in crowded spaces [55, 57, 424]. The main arguments should be based on scientific evidence rather than on moralistic stances and virtue signaling [54]. It is monumentally frustrating that academics both supporting masks and calling for well-crafted messages, nuanced (not universal) guidance, and further evidence have been misrepresented as anti-mask and accused of flagrant disregard for human lives by some universal masking advocates. The palpable sense of urgency in the COVID-19 pandemic requires a dispassionate discussion and weighing of benefits, risks, and uncertainties along with swift data-driven decision-making that accounts for the cases for and against public health interventions [8, 17, 524, 594, 595].


I am not sure how many will find that satisfying.

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Thank you. Here's the entire list from this section:

Quote:

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5. Masks for all vs. no masking
Recommended bibliography: [5460]
"Smart masking" is a more accurate term than "universal masking."
The case for mask wearing is strongest in high-risk scenarios such as crowded spaces, indoor venues, and unventilated places.
The case for mask wearing is weakest in marginal-risk scenarios such as outdoor and uncrowded environments where distancing and ventilation are possible.
In addition to filtration efficiency, fit, and breathability, proper and consistent wearing of masks influences their effectiveness.
Mask adherence is multifactorial, mediated by sociocultural and psychological factors.
A social norm of masking is built through well-crafted messaging plus permanent education campaigns on proper mask wearing, the right settings and times to wear a mask, and safe and legitimate exceptions to masking.
To encourage mask adherence and gain public acceptability, society must be transparently informed about the real-world benefits, potential downsides, and uncertainties.

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This is not satisfying, but it does seem reasonable. It's not perfect by any stretch and can be helpful to a limited extent in certain circumstances. Why can't we just say THAT?

The one thing that I just don't understand is the idea that wearing a mask in the outdoors where there is ANY kind of moving air is useful. It defies common sense and logic. If there's a breeze of any kind, I just don't see the point of a mask.

Now, indoors and in close proximity, I can see a rational argument that wearing a mask might help reduce the risk of infection (how much is certainly debatable), although by no means would it eliminate it.

I saw a lady the other day at a concert outside with a nice breeze, at least 12 feet away from anyone else, in a mask and a face shield.

KidDoc said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Texagsubscriber said:

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The parking lot after a school board meeting last night in Franklin, the wealthiest place in Tennessee. Parents harassed medical professionals who had spoken in favor of masks in schools. “We know who you are. You can leave freely, but we will find you.” pic.twitter.com/SzR0uvMeE7

— Natalie Allison (@natalie_allison) August 11, 2021

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Good. These people need to feel some heat.

Also, that one loser kept his mask on in the car.

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It is depressing that you think threatening people for speaking their views is laudable.

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I don't like the actual threats or inciting physical harm. But yelling, calling them out for what they are, and letting them know how you feel is fine.

Where did you get 6'? CDC now says 3', EU says 1 meter; China says 3.3'. Science.

plain_o_llama said:

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FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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I'm not trying to start a war. Just want to know if there are any such studies that assess the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of masks. Anything?

TIA

---

I think this article offers some insight into the range of issues involved in developing policies around masks.


COVID-19 false dichotomies and a comprehensive review of the evidence regarding public health, COVID-19 symptomatology, SARS-CoV-2 transmission, mask wearing, and reinfection

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8314268/

Go to the section:

False dichotomy 5: Masks for all vs. no masking

they conclude

A key aspect of mask advocacy is accurate messaging, which includes acknowledging the limited utility of mask wearing as a single intervention and cautioning against it as a sufficient alternative to a multilayered use of other NPIs, including physical distancing, ventilation, and limiting time in crowded spaces [55, 57, 424]. The main arguments should be based on scientific evidence rather than on moralistic stances and virtue signaling [54]. It is monumentally frustrating that academics both supporting masks and calling for well-crafted messages, nuanced (not universal) guidance, and further evidence have been misrepresented as anti-mask and accused of flagrant disregard for human lives by some universal masking advocates. The palpable sense of urgency in the COVID-19 pandemic requires a dispassionate discussion and weighing of benefits, risks, and uncertainties along with swift data-driven decision-making that accounts for the cases for and against public health interventions [8, 17, 524, 594, 595].


I am not sure how many will find that satisfying.

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It is an interesting and well thought out article. But you are right, it is not satisfying. The answer to the question about whether masks are effective and work is.........well, it depends. (mask type, proper use, where, when and the situation).

As far as school masking goes and public policy the answer is very little. Mask requirements in schools and public heath declarations only stipulate a cloth face covering which are effectively useless in school and public settings, and even if they were (which they are not), the kids don't wear them properly and they might actually accumulate other pathogens in a warm moist environment.

I'm in DISD and they are (unlawfully) requiring masks. I'm not "anti-mask", I'm anti public health guidance requiring actions that don't have justification in data or evidence. I hear politicians, health official and media types use the we must apply "tried and true" mitigations without any supporting evidence other than "calls to authority" of the CDC and other experts.

The CDC also gives guidance that you should never eat runny eggs or leave your children alone with your family pet.

Answer to the OP, if there were any definitive studies demonstrating the masking mandates made a difference in spread control, you would see them and they would be eagerly and constantly cited by the government, media and health authorities. Granted, conducting one of these studies, (RCT) would be exceedly difficult with many uncontrollable variables and risks.

Sidenote and semi-related.

I work in the airline industry and I'm sure you all remember the hand wringing over air travel despite the fact the modern commercial aircraft exchange air more quickly (3-4 min for whole plane) and have cleaner filtered air than most hospital operating rooms. I'm sure the news reports for massive surging outbreaks in commercial planes are already written and ready to go. All that is needed is the names, numbers and dates. Think about how many of these reports you have not seen ..........there is a reason.

Conclusion: the data doesn't exist. Just a bunch of doctors and so-called experts giving their views without any credible data backing it up.