So what's your point here. I am 47 have never had the flu shot until this year and I never get the flu. I just don't get sick period. But when I do it hits me like a hammer. I got the Covid shot for family reasons, don't wear masks. Life moves on

Similar. I haven't changed my routine much since all of it started. Been to plenty of house parties and dinners and fundraisers with no masking or social distancing. Granted, I'm not riding in NYC subways or working in a busy hospital. My kids did in person school all year and played various sports and had plenty of sleepovers. My wife taught at a preschool and contracted Covid around Thanksgiving. I tested negative after she had it, and tested negative for antibodies multiple times since then.

Some people are just not going to get it. Maybe you're one of those people.

Or you've alluded it so far and when the day comes, you'll get knocked on your ass.

No way to know.

digging tunnels said:

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immunology question for the docs out there.....

Went to my GP for an annual exam, and I got my blood tested for COVID IgG. It came back negative for antibodies. I'm not wanting to brag, but how is this possible? I would have thought that I had been exposed and been positive for the antibodies. (knock on wood)

I'm 43, unvaccinated, been out and about since 5/1/2020 when things opened up to 25%. My wife and I are both essential workers so we never stayed home for work. We've both gone to tons of bars, restaurants, concerts, travelled to Florida panhandle, Key West, and Breckenridge. We don't wear masks.

Just a background on myself. I rarely, if ever get sick. In my whole life, I've probably missed no more than a handful of days of school or work. This is the main reason why I didn't get the vaccine. I'm not opposed to it; I just want to wait longer. In addition, I have taken the supplements daily that Reveille has recommended since last summer.


so could this have been a false negative? is that possible on a blood test? can my immune system kill the virus and not produce antibodies? that makes no sense

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I have lived the same. No antibodies. I'm curious what your blood type is. Not sure that it really matters, just curious.

There are lots of people like that. I never stopped working, going out, having parties, weddings, etc. I also haven't been sick in over ten years.

I tested positive in late March after my wife was exposed and tested positive. She had a slight fever for a couple of days and lost her sense of smell. I never had a fever, but my lungs felt raw when I breathed in (kind of like breathing in cold air in the winter), also post nasal drip that would get in my throat and lungs. Lasted about a week with really heavy coughing the only symptom.
About 2 1/2 months later I gave blood and tested Negative for the antibodies (my wife also gave blood and tested Positive for antibodies). So did I have COVID?
We have a Africa trip planned for mid August and it looked like we were going to have to get the vaccine to travel, this coupled with the negative antibody test compelled me to get the vaccine. Just when I was ready to get it, my cough and post nasal drip symptoms came back and after 2 weeks I had a chest X-ray to make sure I didn't have pneumonia. X-rays were negative, another week of the same crap and I went and got a COVID test to make sure I didn't have that as I was needing to get the vaccine but didn't want to if I had COVID. Turned out that was negative.
Ended up getting the J&J 2 weeks ago with no side effects. My "symptoms" are slowly getting better but not completely gone yet.

So I wonder if I have "long haul" symptoms or just some new allergies due to all the wet weather this yr.

Hullabaloo91 said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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You clearly have not been exposed yet, you are not superman. I would strongly encourage you to get the vaccine. You can set up an appointment online with Walgreens or CVS to get it. It's simple, it's free, and there is no reason not to.

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Serious question looking for a serious answer and not a political debate: I'm similar to OP, but I struggle with the decision to get the vaccine from a purely medical point-of-view. The mRNA vaccine appears to lose efficacy over time requiring boosters, cf Israel. The mRNA vaccines have unknown long term consequences. COVID can be contracted and spread, even if vaccinated. There are documented negative side-effects from the vaccine, some of which can be life threatening or have long term health implications. For the elderly and vulnerable, I think the vaccines are much needed; however, my risks of death or serious complications from COVID are very small based on CDC data and my lack of comorbities. From a purely medical standpoint, why should I get the vaccine? Thank you.

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What are the long-term consequences you're worried about?

For young men, myocarditis. That's for sure. If you're a male sub 25-30, okay think twice.

Guillen-barre? That can happen with anything, even a stomach bug. I haven't seen any reports that it's happening with more frequency in vaccinated patients, it has just happened in a few instances.

The ones that may have issues are people with known allergies and people who have known/suspected vaccine reactions. Those are issues that are going to show themselves within a few days, not years.

And something to keep in mind about the VAERS reports of deaths, those are all secondhand accounts. Those are from loved ones who are grieving who are searching for anything to explain their loved ones death. No one who died is submitting a first-hand account to VAERS of their prior medical history and what was going on in the days before they died.

I'm very similar to you OP. A few years younger but I haven't been sick since I was in my 20's thanks to diet, exercise, one meal a day and extended fasting once a quarter. I got vaccinated after watching for a bit and then deciding at best it helps me and at worst it does nothing and I just keep living as I have.

Hullabaloo91 said:

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I appreciate the question in this highly charged environment. I'm looking for medical arguments to get the vaccine for my specific situation. There's so much rhetoric on both sides that a real discussion seems to be almost impossible. I'm not looking to pick apart anyone's position, but I prefer facts and well thought out rationale vs homilies and hyperbole. I'm trying to make a rational decision and not an emotional one.

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Height and weight?

01agtx said:

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digging tunnels said:

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immunology question for the docs out there.....

Went to my GP for an annual exam, and I got my blood tested for COVID IgG. It came back negative for antibodies. I'm not wanting to brag, but how is this possible? I would have thought that I had been exposed and been positive for the antibodies. (knock on wood)

I'm 43, unvaccinated, been out and about since 5/1/2020 when things opened up to 25%. My wife and I are both essential workers so we never stayed home for work. We've both gone to tons of bars, restaurants, concerts, travelled to Florida panhandle, Key West, and Breckenridge. We don't wear masks.

Just a background on myself. I rarely, if ever get sick. In my whole life, I've probably missed no more than a handful of days of school or work. This is the main reason why I didn't get the vaccine. I'm not opposed to it; I just want to wait longer. In addition, I have taken the supplements daily that Reveille has recommended since last summer.


so could this have been a false negative? is that possible on a blood test? can my immune system kill the virus and not produce antibodies? that makes no sense

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I have lived the same. No antibodies. I'm curious what your blood type is. Not sure that it really matters, just curious.

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I am AB+


It's just hard for me to fathom that I haven't been exposed as much as I have been around people. Hell I shared a condo with 5-6 people who tested positive for it last summer

Any worry at all that at worst it does something bad in the future? If my really honest, my hesitancy is the new technology and how quickly the vaccines were developed. Did these factors enter into your decision? Thank you.

5-11, 190

Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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You clearly have not been exposed yet, you are not superman. I would strongly encourage you to get the vaccine. You can set up an appointment online with Walgreens or CVS to get it. It's simple, it's free, and there is no reason not to,unless you are naturally immunized.

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Fify.

For those that say it still won't hurt for naturally immune people to get a vaccine, you are right. But neither will getting a vaccine every month. It is wasteful and millions of people are taking vaccines that don't need them in order to meet the gov metric. Meanwhile old/at risk people in other countries are literally dying while waiting for Sputnik or Chinese knockoffs.

thirdcoast said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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You clearly have not been exposed yet, you are not superman. I would strongly encourage you to get the vaccine. You can set up an appointment online with Walgreens or CVS to get it. It's simple, it's free, and there is no reason not to,unless you are naturally immunized.

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Fify.

For those that say it still won't hurt for naturally immune people to get a vaccine, you are right. But neither will getting a vaccine every month. It is wasteful and millions of people are taking vaccines that don't need them in order to meet the gov metric. Meanwhile old/at risk people in other countries are literally dying while waiting for Sputnik or Chinese knockoffs.

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Wait till it becomes quarterly + $100 each time for everyone regardless of income....

thirdcoast said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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You clearly have not been exposed yet, you are not superman. I would strongly encourage you to get the vaccine. You can set up an appointment online with Walgreens or CVS to get it. It's simple, it's free, and there is no reason not to,unless you are naturally immunized.

---

Fify.

For those that say it still won't hurt for naturally immune people to get a vaccine, you are right. But neither will getting a vaccine every month. It is wasteful and millions of people are taking vaccines that don't need them in order to meet the gov metric. Meanwhile old/at risk people in other countries are literally dying while waiting for Sputnik or Chinese knockoffs.

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Only about 10% of the USA population has had a known positive test. High estimates is that another 10% or so would test positive for previously unknown antibodies.

That means roughly 80% of the country has never gotten sick with COVID, symptomatic or asymptomatic. I would not assume that just because you haven't gotten it so far that you have some kind of special natural immunity that researchers haven't been able to pinpoint. You're just one of the 80% who hasn't gotten sick yet.

I get tested still every blood donation and have always been negative. Shocking honestly as I worked throughout the entire pandemic. We did divert fever/uri kids to a central clinic for about a year (3/2020-3/2021) but still surprising.

Hullabaloo91 said:

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Any worry at all that at worst it does something bad in the future? If my really honest, my hesitancy is the new technology and how quickly the vaccines were developed. Did these factors enter into your decision? Thank you.

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I thought about it but in the end there is no way to know so I thought about what would be best for myself and my family. Everyone will come to their own decisions and I don't mind either one. The only thing I refuse to do is live in fear. All this fear will probably do way more damage in the long term than any vaccine or lack of.

jopatura said:

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thirdcoast said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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You clearly have not been exposed yet, you are not superman. I would strongly encourage you to get the vaccine. You can set up an appointment online with Walgreens or CVS to get it. It's simple, it's free, and there is no reason not to,unless you are naturally immunized.

---

Fify.

For those that say it still won't hurt for naturally immune people to get a vaccine, you are right. But neither will getting a vaccine every month. It is wasteful and millions of people are taking vaccines that don't need them in order to meet the gov metric. Meanwhile old/at risk people in other countries are literally dying while waiting for Sputnik or Chinese knockoffs.

---

Only about 10% of the USA population has had a known positive test. High estimates is that another 10% or so would test positive for previously unknown antibodies.

That means roughly 80% of the country has never gotten sick with COVID, symptomatic or asymptomatic. I would not assume that just because you haven't gotten it so far that you have some kind of special natural immunity that researchers haven't been able to pinpoint. You're just one of the 80% who hasn't gotten sick yet.

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That's some Fauci math right there.

What is the source for high estimate of 10% would test positive for antibodies?

I tested negative for active virus 3 times (1 rapid/2PCR), one PCR when covid symptomatic. I proactively donated blood for an antibody test that came back positive. There is a 20% false negative rate in COVID viral detection tests (that they know of). My false negative never made it into that stat, so maybe it's truly in the 30-35+% range...who knows for sure. I'm sure the sample testing for accuracy was done with much better procedure and preservation than the broad testing, so 35% is likely a much better false neg number.

So let's say that 30% of the population that cares enough to get serology tested had antibodies with no record of prior infection. How about the rest of population who never got any virus or serology tests? Is that 10,15,20% with antibodies and no record of prior infection?

When you go thru the logic of how the numbers are reported, human behavior, and fact that the number with natural antibodies can only go up, it's likely much closer to 50% of population not ever being infected than 80% at this stage.

merc said:

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Hullabaloo91 said:

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Any worry at all that at worst it does something bad in the future? If my really honest, my hesitancy is the new technology and how quickly the vaccines were developed. Did these factors enter into your decision? Thank you.

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I thought about it but in the end there is no way to know so I thought about what would be best for myself and my family. Everyone will come to their own decisions and I don't mind either one. The only thing I refuse to do is live in fear. All this fear will probably do way more damage in the long term than any vaccine or lack of.

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Thank you for explaining your thought process. I really do appreciate it.