Are there legitimate concerns about the vaccine?

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mrmill3218
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11:54a, 7/23/21
AG
My dad knows a few people who have died shortly after getting the vaccine. It could obviously be from something else, but it has spooked him enough to stay away.

My questions is, regarding the vaccine, are there legitimate concerns? Can you provide any literature about stats saying how safe it is? It just has to be such a small percentage of people who die after getting the vaccine.
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hbtheduce
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11:56a, 7/23/21
AG
Its an hour of my life that I wouldn't get back.
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Zobel
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 12:01p, 7/23/21
AG
The short answer is no, there are no documented concerns about the vaccines beyond the warnings that have come out of the monitoring program and are now on the FDA fact sheets.

The CDC has a ton of information on their website.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines.html
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Petrino1
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12:03p, 7/23/21
I've posted about my experience with covid and the vaccine several times, but I will share again lol.

I've had Covid long haul symptoms for the past 13 months. I was vaccinated about 3-4 months ago and ever since then Ive had frequent dizzy/ight headed spells and arm pain. Hard to tell if its due to the vaccine or part of the covid long haul symptoms, but I never had dizzy spells prior to the vaccine.
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Jbob04
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In reply to Zobel • 12:03p, 7/23/21
AG
Speak for yourself about no concerns. I have plenty of concerns along with millions of other people.
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Zobel
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In reply to Jbob04 • 12:05p, 7/23/21
AG
That wasn't what he asked, but you do you.
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agsalaska
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In reply to Jbob04 • 12:05p, 7/23/21
AG
Jbob04 said:
Speak for yourself about no concerns. I have plenty of concerns along with millions of other people.


To be clear, that poster said 'documented' concerns.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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Scruffy
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In reply to agsalaska • 12:10p, 7/23/21
AG
agsalaska said:
Jbob04 said:
Speak for yourself about no concerns. I have plenty of concerns along with millions of other people.


To be clear, that poster said 'documented' concerns.
If you don't write them down, they can't be documented.
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Jbob04
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In reply to agsalaska • 12:16p, 7/23/21
AG
Fair enough, they are documented in my brain though
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redcrayon
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12:20p, 7/23/21
AG
Yes, there are documented concerns. See the CDC website.
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mrmill3218
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12:45p, 7/23/21
AG
My dad's argument is that he probably has natural immunities because his wife got it and he didn't.
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redcrayon
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 12:59p, 7/23/21
AG
mrmill3218 said:
My dad's argument is that he probably has natural immunities because his wife got it and he didn't.
Maybe he can get a blood test for anitbodies.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to redcrayon • 2:00p, 7/23/21
AG
redcrayon said:
mrmill3218 said:
My dad's argument is that he probably has natural immunities because his wife got it and he didn't.
Maybe he can get a blood test for anitbodies.

Where can you get the blood test?
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redcrayon
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2:35p, 7/23/21
AG
Try Quest Diagnostics.
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torrid
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2:39p, 7/23/21
AG
Serious question about the vaccine. Full disclosure - I willingly took the vaccine (Moderna) and have no regrets about doing so.

Let's say a booster of some sort is needed for the Delta or the Whatever variant. I believe the current vaccines were actually developed in early 2020 before the virus ever struck this country. It took a while to test and prove it, develop manufacturing and distribution, etc. I'm actually amazed they accomplished all that in less than a year.

Could the develop a vaccine for a new variant using the same process as the original vaccine, but matched the RNA of the new variant? And would it be available to the public much sooner?

The model I'm thinking of here is the seasonal flu shot.
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Zobel
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In reply to torrid • 3:06p, 7/23/21
AG
Yes, they can do that and are already.

The mRNA is instructions to make the spike protein. Delta (and Beta) has a K417N mutation on the spike compared to the original. The instructions to make the spike by the original vaccines does not have this mutation.

Once they figure the new spike, they can make a new mRNA "code" to make a spike with the K417N mutation. Both Pfizer and Moderna are already developing Delta-type spike mRNA vaccines, and clinical trials are supposed to start next month.

The other thing is it may be better to just do a third round of the original vaccine. The original first shot / second shot looks something like 40 / 95 efficacy vs original, maybe that gives 20 / 70 vs delta. If you add a third shot perhaps you get 99 or sterilizing immunity vs original and 90 vs delta.

Also all of that wanes with time regardless - Pfizer has said their data from the US suggest it goes from 95 to around 85 efficacy over six months.
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torrid
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In reply to Zobel • 3:40p, 7/23/21
AG
Zobel said:
Yes, they can do that and are already.

The mRNA is instructions to make the spike protein. Delta (and Beta) has a K417N mutation on the spike compared to the original. The instructions to make the spike by the original vaccines does not have this mutation.

Once they figure the new spike, they can make a new mRNA "code" to make a spike with the K417N mutation. Both Pfizer and Moderna are already developing Delta-type spike mRNA vaccines, and clinical trials are supposed to start next month.

The other thing is it may be better to just do a third round of the original vaccine. The original first shot / second shot looks something like 40 / 95 efficacy vs original, maybe that gives 20 / 70 vs delta. If you add a third shot perhaps you get 99 or sterilizing immunity vs original and 90 vs delta.

Also all of that wanes with time regardless - Pfizer has said their data from the US suggest it goes from 95 to around 85 efficacy over six months.
Would the clinical trials be abbreviated compared to the original version of the vaccine?
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eric76
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In reply to torrid • 3:53p, 7/23/21
AG
torrid said:
Serious question about the vaccine. Full disclosure - I willingly took the vaccine (Moderna) and have no regrets about doing so.

Let's say a booster of some sort is needed for the Delta or the Whatever variant. I believe the current vaccines were actually developed in early 2020 before the virus ever struck this country. It took a while to test and prove it, develop manufacturing and distribution, etc. I'm actually amazed they accomplished all that in less than a year.

Could the develop a vaccine for a new variant using the same process as the original vaccine, but matched the RNA of the new variant? And would it be available to the public much sooner?

The model I'm thinking of here is the seasonal flu shot.
Huh? Since when do we develop vaccines to diseases that we haven't seen yet?
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Zobel
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In reply to torrid • 3:55p, 7/23/21
AG
No idea sorry
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KidDoc
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 4:16p, 7/23/21
AG
Aside from the teens getting myocarditis I haven't seen or read any significant concerns. Any vaccine can trigger auto-immune diseases just like any viral infection can. It all depends on if the rate is significantly higher than the baseline right after vaccine and that is hard to determine quickly as the baseline rate is so low.

This technology has been in development well over 10 years, COVID and the $$$ from the government was all that was needed to push the last few steps through.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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torrid
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In reply to eric76 • 4:45p, 7/23/21
AG
eric76 said:
torrid said:
Serious question about the vaccine. Full disclosure - I willingly took the vaccine (Moderna) and have no regrets about doing so.

Let's say a booster of some sort is needed for the Delta or the Whatever variant. I believe the current vaccines were actually developed in early 2020 before the virus ever struck this country. It took a while to test and prove it, develop manufacturing and distribution, etc. I'm actually amazed they accomplished all that in less than a year.

Could the develop a vaccine for a new variant using the same process as the original vaccine, but matched the RNA of the new variant? And would it be available to the public much sooner?

The model I'm thinking of here is the seasonal flu shot.
Huh? Since when do we develop vaccines to diseases that we haven't seen yet?
COVID-19, as in 2019. It was raging in China months before we saw it here. But mRNA vaccines were developed very early in the game.

edit - Article from January 2020 saying the Wuhan genome had been sequenced, and clinical trials of a vaccine were predicted to start in three months. And yes it has a big picture of Fauci and mentions him extensively.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-vaccines-idUSKBN1ZN2J8
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RockOn
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In reply to eric76 • 5:12p, 7/23/21
The Moderna clinical trial began March 2020.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/health/coronavirus-vaccine.html

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-first-participant-dosed-nih-led-phase-1-study
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bay fan
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 10:49p, 7/23/21
S
No.
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AggieUSMC
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5:50a, 7/24/21
AG
Are there legitimate concerns from the vaccines? Yes.

There are legitimate concerns from aspirin or any other drug.

There are legitimate concerns from COVID19 itself.

It all comes down to your own personal risk/benefit analysis. Do your research. Consult your doctor. Make your own decision.

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KidDoc
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In reply to RockOn • 5:54a, 7/24/21
AG
The initial tech started in 1989.

RNA vaccine - Wikipedia

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Get Off My Lawn
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 7:32a, 7/24/21
Legitimate concerns? Yes. It's more of a question of significance and proportional risk/reward.

As I see it, most of the concerns with the vaccine(s) are of the unknown/distrust variety: information about negative experiences has been downplayed, they don't allow for legal recourse, it's still relatively early so there's limited long term data (especially for pregnancy and children). And there's the of medical folks who aren't getting it. And then there's all the societal and institutional concerns that you can latch onto.

I tend to think that for young & healthy folks who aren't through their child-bearing years, the remaining known+unknown personal health risks are somewhat proportional (both nearly negligible). It's pretty clear that the personal health risks from the virus are more substantial for the old and the sick, though.
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2wealfth Man
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8:21a, 7/24/21
AG
I am really concerned about our society these days
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ham98
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11:26p, 7/24/21
You can be comforted to know that the vaccine makers have no product liability for potential harmful side effects.
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Aston94
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In reply to Jbob04 • 12:24a, 7/25/21
AG
Jbob04 said:
Speak for yourself about no concerns. I have plenty of concerns along with millions of other people.


I believe the criteria is "legitimate " concerns.
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cbr
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1:59p, 7/25/21
AG
Honestly the past decade has seen the absolute, utter destruction of truth. You literally have to assume that everything you see and read on any media, or from any company or government, is a ****ing lie. How can anyone trust a vaccine, or say a vaccine is prohibitively dangerous, when there is zero accurate information available, no reliable statistics, no financial repurcussions if it turns out to be dangerous, and when no one even ****ing knows when, how and why either the virus or the vaccine research even got started? The one thing we DO know is that the entire us and chinese research and media establishment, as well as the official proclamations from the us government, are all 100% total ****ing bull*****
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thirdcoast
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2:33p, 7/25/21
AG
Your dad must "know" a lot of people. Just like all those who say they "know" people getting reinfected.

The math simply doesn't back up either of these claims. People are making shyt up to confirm their bias on both sides.
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kb2001
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3:13p, 7/25/21
AG
We're considering whether or not our 12 year old daughter should get it yet. I had heard about heart inflammation problems being a concern, and I see the CDC held an emergency meeting to discuss it in June, I haven't seen any outcome from those meeting though.

Is anybody aware of the outcomes from those meetings?

The meeting agenda doc has been removed, but the wayback machine still has it. I can't find anything about the outcome or minutes from that meeting.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210618041405/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/agenda-archive/agenda-2021-06-18-508.pdf

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Zobel
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In reply to kb2001 • 3:18p, 7/25/21
AG
The fda added a warning about myocarditis to the label.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html
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mrmill3218
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9:56a, 7/26/21
AG
Seems pretty respectable to me.
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TulsAg
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In reply to cbr • 10:35a, 7/26/21
AG
One has to use his or her best judgment, education, and common sense and make a rational decision for him or herself and family, just as people have done for important issues since the beginning of time.

Is there more "noise" out there to filter these days? Absolutely - the avenues to feed information (and misinformation) to the masses make it easy for much more unsupported and fringe stuff to reach a wide audience. But the profit and politic motivations for various speakers have always been present. What is increasingly absent today is the application of critical thinking and common sense to process the information (and misinformation), and they are too often displaced by confirmation bias and emotion.

There is enough information available on the prevalence of the virus, the impacts of the virus, and the impacts of the delta variant in particular to evaluate that risk against the virtual absence of any ill effects from the many millions of vaccines that have been administered now well over a year and decide whether it is "worth it" for one's self and his or her family. You have to consider the source of fringe information and process the whole body of information to find that which is consistent and credible. Occam's Razor - rather than conspiracy theory - is applies much more often than not.

Are there absolute answers, such as a guarantee that there there will be no unforeseen side effects that somehow reveal themselves 10 years from now? Of course not. But few decisions in life have 100% certainty. Life is full of decisions that theoretically could prove wrong some time in the future. You make your best decision after a thorough and objective evaluation of the evidence and move on.

The vaccine "issue" just does not seem that difficult. Maybe more so a year ago, but not now.
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