How do we know the covid vaccines are safe long term? Do we know that there won't be and side effects or health issues months or years from now? I know they are emergency use approved by the FDA, but they're not officially FDA approved from what I understand.
What's interesting to me is that we had to lock down and wear masks because we didn't know and we had to play it safe. But when it comes to the vaccine it's ok if we don't know.
And I'm fine with the vaccine, I don't think it will turn people into zombies or change their DNA. I just get tired of the double standard when it comes to Covid response.
We dont know it for sure but we know it works against the virus that has devastating consequences to certain groups of people that are already proven.
And the science doesnt suggest any long term adverse effects from any reputable sources.
(I'm not a physician)
FIFY in bold
This is another issue I have with the Covid response. Rather than target the response to those at risk we had a blanket response to entire population. DeSantis in Florida sent all their PPE to nursing homes while Cuomo in NY sent all their Covid patients to nursing homes. I'll let you guess which one won an award and had the media fawning over their actions.
Sorry the thread derail, just had to add a correction to your post.
The same thought experiment can be made on any new product ever made that interacts with your body. The simple answer is vaccine negative side effects usually present themselves sooner rather than later.
The better thought experiment is what happens if we have a working vaccine and only get 40% of the population gets it.
I really don't like the mRNA (Pfizer and Moderns) vaccines for this very reason, we simply don't know long term impacts.
My question to the medical and scientific community would be how do we know the genetic material ever gets turned off? Could it keep producing spike proteins for years, if so what are the risks of autoimmune disease developing from runaway protein production? I'm sure many will develop unforeseen issues, the extent of which are largely unknown. As others have pointed out, why is this unknown more risky than merely utilizing known effective treatments on at risk populations.
How do we know the covid vaccines are safe long term? Do we know that there won't be and side effects or health issues months or years from now? I know they are emergency use approved by the FDA, but they're not officially FDA approved from what I understand.
I really don't like the mRNA (Pfizer and Moderns) vaccines for this very reason, we simply don't know long term impacts.
My question to the medical and scientific community would be how do we know the genetic material ever gets turned off? Could it keep producing spike proteins for years, if so what are the risks of autoimmune disease developing from runaway protein production? I'm sure many will develop unforeseen issues, the extent of which are largely unknown. As others have pointed out, why is this unknown more risky than merely utilizing known effective treatments on at risk populations.
What is the deal with the generic material that needs to get turned off?
How do we know the covid vaccines are safe long term? Do we know that there won't be and side effects or health issues months or years from now? I know they are emergency use approved by the FDA, but they're not officially FDA approved from what I understand.
We don't. But we know how vaccines in the past have worked. We know how this vaccine works. We know the basic science behind it, and nothing points to a mechanism by which it could be harmful long term. We also know that vaccine adverse events tend to occur within the first 2 months following a vaccine.
Long story short, there is no way of knowing without a time machine and going forward 50+ years.
I don't know how old you are, but there was a time when we didn't know the long term side effects of the polio vaccine. Or the small pox vaccine. We don't even know the long term side effects of the majority of blood pressure medications people take on a daily basis - but we do know that taking them saves lives.
coolerguy12 said:
Then everyone will have made their choice and we can get on with our lives. If it works you have nothing to worry about (if you chose to take it)
The only issue is that if a sufficient number of people don't get the vaccine, it increases the risks of variants emerging that are not covered by the vaccine. Then those vaccinated could get reinfected, those unvaccinated could get infected in large numbers, and we again have the problem of overwhelmed ICUs. Is it a likely scenario, no. But is it possible, yes. And if it happens, the odds of being able to truly get on with our lives is a little less likely. At least for those in healthcare that have to deal with it.
In4TheHuddle said:
My question to the medical and scientific community would be how do we know the genetic material ever gets turned off? Could it keep producing spike proteins for years, if so what are the risks of autoimmune disease developing from runaway protein production? I'm sure many will develop unforeseen issues, the extent of which are largely unknown. As others have pointed out, why is this unknown more risky than merely utilizing known effective treatments on at risk populations.
Because it has been studied for decades in animal and laboratory models. Additionally, the half-life of mRNA is incredibly short. We've known for a long time that RNA gets degraded very quickly, well before anyone even conceived mRNA vaccines. If mRNA stuck around for prolonged periods of time then we'd all be walking around super swole because every time we worked out our body would produce produce protein from mRNA for a long period of time.
The half-life of mRNA is less than an hour (most of the time on the order of minutes).
mrmill3218 said:
What is the whole "messing with your DNA" thing?
That means people without an understanding of human biology have been spreading false rumors about the vaccine.
We don't know. We will likely never know. We don't use a saline placebo in the current, ongoing studies. We don't have any studies to compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
For a simple health care worker who just wants to listen to people, you have a lot of misinformation locked and loaded.
We don't know. We will likely never know. We don't use a saline placebo in the current, ongoing studies. We don't have any studies to compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
For a simple health care worker who just wants to listen to people, you have a lot of misinformation locked and loaded.
Simple must be your call. Lol Which piece is misinformation?
The bit about "if enough people choose not to get vaccinated a new variant may emerge that defeats the existing vaccines" is a little dramatic. The virus is all over the world. 50-100 million people in the US isn't going to make or break us.
That means people without an understanding of human biology have been spreading false rumors about the vaccine.
That's a great video! My only issue with it is that it calls mRNA a 'single strand DNA', which isn't true, and may contribute to misunderstanding.
For those who may not understand the difference... RNA and DNA both use 4 nucleic acids, and share 3 of the same ones, but RNA has one that's different from DNA. In addition, RNA is single stranded. While the differences may seem like a small thing, it's enough to drastically change what it can do. There is no mechanism in your cell for RNA to get back into DNA. Also, as the poster above already stated, RNA doesn't last very long. These are actually protective measures, and keep your DNA from being altered by RNA.
The normal sequence of events (simplified of course) is that your cell uses the DNA master blueprint to create a working copy (RNA), which is carried out of the nucleus, to the parts of the cell that take that working copy and make proteins (they're basically the subcontractors of your cells). There, the RNA tells that part of the cell how to build the protein, in this case, the virus spike protein. The RNA breaks down quickly, but not before the cell makes a ton of copies of the spike protein. That protein makes its way to the surface of the cell, where your immune system recognizes that it doesn't belong there, and develops a response to kick out the intruder. Since the cells aren't making the entire virus, it doesn't give you the disease, but your immune system doesn't know the difference, and reacts anyway. Once the initial reaction simmers down, it remembers what to do. Then, when you're subsequently exposed to the virus, it can ramp up the response fast enough to prevent you from getting an overwhelming infection. Since the RNA doesn't stick around for very long, the immune reaction simmers down along with it, and you go back to normal.
Like any vaccine, there could be complications. However, the recombinant protein vaccines are already in common use, as the video said. If you've had a Hepatitis B or shingles vaccine, you've had a recombinant protein vaccine. The difference between those and an mRNA vaccine is that your own cells produce that protein, rather than a culture of yeast cells that has been altered to produce the protein for us.
There are several posters on here who are much more knowledgeable about biochemistry than I am, who can correct me where I may have oversimplified or possibly misspoke (it's been 22 years since I've taken biochem... damn I'm getting old), but I think that this is a decent summary for a lay person.
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De Omnibus Dubitandum
Speaking as someone whose basically been in the anti-lockdown / anti-mask / anti-all of this bs camp for just about the last year - I've never considered it an option to have the views I've had and THEN shy away from the vax when it was available since "we just can't be certain that there won't be unknown side effects down the road".
........Because if thats put out there as a reasonable excuse for not getting the vax, then suddenly we're back to square one with talking points like "vaccinated people should continue to mask and social distance because we just can't be certain they can't still be asymptomatic and spread covid!" and "even healthy people with a mild case of covid could still experience serious health issues years down the road".
The only issue is that if a sufficient number of people don't get the vaccine, it increases the risks of variants emerging that are not covered by the vaccine. Then those vaccinated could get reinfected, those unvaccinated could get infected in large numbers, and we again have the problem of overwhelmed ICUs. Is it a likely scenario, no. But is it possible, yes. And if it happens, the odds of being able to truly get on with our lives is a little less likely. At least for those in healthcare that have to deal with it.
The only issue is that if a sufficient number of people don't get the vaccine, it increases the risks of variants emerging that are not covered by the vaccine. Then those vaccinated could get reinfected, those unvaccinated could get infected in large numbers, and we again have the problem of overwhelmed ICUs. Is it a likely scenario, no. But is it possible, yes. And if it happens, the odds of being able to truly get on with our lives is a little less likely. At least for those in healthcare that have to deal with it.
Doesnt this assume a lack of durable immunity to both getting covid, getting exposed to covid and/or gettting a vaccine for covid? Also assumes "those vaccinated could get reinfected" and can transmit to enough people that are unvaccinated or otherwise without strong immune response. Also assumes the variants will have similar R0 across communities - If the R0 is bigger is seems highly unlikely it wouldn't result in overwhelmed ICU except maybe in certain specific populations and if the R0 is smaller, then ICU shouldn't be overwhelmed because the vaccine is working. Definitely has a 'so you're saying there's a chance' vibe here.
We don't know. We will likely never know. We don't use a saline placebo in the current, ongoing studies. We don't have any studies to compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
For a simple health care worker who just wants to listen to people, you have a lot of misinformation locked and loaded.
Simple must be your call. Lol Which piece is misinformation?
The whole damn post
This guy is a anti vax guy. Not just this one but all, so he is not rationale and has pre conceived notions that he seeks out confirmation bias to show him he's correct. Just move on. I got into a "debate" with him on another thread and he just kept calling me hostile.
Not sure. I've never seen the medical establishment and media so thirsty to get everyone vaccinated though. It's odd.
There is a counter on CNN with numbers of vaccinations that magically took over for number of total cases somewhere near the end of January. And they are reporting statistics of "number of people over age 16" to get vaccinated...when this illness is basically completely harmless to those under 20 years old. If this was really about science, they would put the number of those over the age of 65 to get vaccinated, because that's is thepopulation where a huge majority of hospitalizations and deaths come from.
I also heard they are starting trials on those as young as 6 months old. WHY?
I guess there could be a profit motive, like anything else, but jesus. It's kind of creepy.
It's not the severity of the punishment that deters crime; it's the certainty of it.
The bit about "if enough people choose not to get vaccinated a new variant may emerge that defeats the existing vaccines" is a little dramatic. The virus is all over the world. 50-100 million people in the US isn't going to make or break us.
Yep. Not to mention this thing has been circulating for what, 16 months now, and all the variants created with zero immunity among 7 billion people are covered by the same vaccines? Now, I'm supposed to worry a new variant will emerge in the next 3-4 months not covered, and that this could be the difference between a few million deciding not to?
Seems we'd easily be able to get in front of any minor variants at that pace, but that's just me. It just seems so unlikely that it's a true worry, other than the worst case, worry about everything type.
That said, I think the majority of people should get the vaccine, unless you've recently had covid then might as well let others get them since you still almost assuredly have immunity. But overall, there's not much concern for me on it.
If you want this thing to go away and not become seasonal like the flu then we need to vaccinate as many as possible including younger people who are highly unlikely to have a negative outcome from COVID. Using science as you suggest then that is what we should aim for. I have a feeling we will not get there because there is so much misinformation out there and we won't vaccinate enough. So be prepared to get a Covid vaccine annually like the flu as they adjust it based on the prominent variant. It's not creepy, it is science but there are enough morons out there to keep this thing around forever.
Not sure. I've never seen the medical establishment and media so thirsty to get everyone vaccinated though. It's odd.
Society has basically been on hold for a year and you find it odd that everyone wants to get back to normal?
I mean, I get if you think COVID was all hype or if you for whatever reason don't want a vaccination - to each his own.
But to not understand why there's a push to get everyone vaccinated, and to default to assuming that it must be profit related? I mean, yeah... in the sense that if we don't open things back up their aint gonna be no profit for 70% of the economy.
Ulterior motives for why we tell people to fear the virus, ulterior motives for why we tell people to vaccinate so they no longer have to fear the virus.
Seems like one can find an angle for just about anything.
If you want this thing to go away and not become seasonal like the flu then we need to vaccinate as many as possible including younger people who are highly unlikely to have a negative outcome from COVID. Using science as you suggest then that is what we should aim for. I have a feeling we will not get there because there is so much misinformation out there and we won't vaccinate enough. So be prepared to get a Covid vaccine annually like the flu as they adjust it based on the prominent variant. It's not creepy, it is science but there are enough morons out there to keep this thing around forever.
Interesting how the goal went from "two weeks to flatten the curve" to "we must completely eradicate the virus from planet earth".
Spoiler alert, that will never happen. It's a respiratory virus, not malaria. You cant kill the infection vectors to reduce cases.
It's not the severity of the punishment that deters crime; it's the certainty of it.
Not sure. I've never seen the medical establishment and media so thirsty to get everyone vaccinated though. It's odd.
Society has basically been on hold for a year and you find it odd that everyone wants to get back to normal?
Due to bad policy, yes. Life could continue as normal if we focus on vaccinating the at risk groups, not necessarily everybody in the same way life could have gone back to normal 10 months ago if we isolated the at risk groups, and not everybody.
HTHs.
It's not the severity of the punishment that deters crime; it's the certainty of it.
