With the effectiveness of the 1st pfizer dose being 90% after Day 7 and the reported side effects being much worse after dose 2, why is the second dose emphasized so much? I know the effectiveness goes up to 95%, but what else? Longer protection?
I Am A Critic said:
Where are you seeing 90% in 7 days for the first dose? That doesn't sound right.
This is the correct interpretation. You have to be exceeding careful reading findings into studies that the studies were not desiged to test. The study was not designed to test single dose immunity, so we shouldn't be basing any major decisions on a post-hoc subanalysis. At best those findings would be fuel for a new study dedicated to looking at single dose immunity. However, at this point that seems like a waste of time and resources better spent following the proven protocol we already have.Cactus Jack said:
The longer-term immunity demonstrated in the studies were in people who got two doses. There was not a statistically significant subgroup who only got one dose.
The data suggesting immunity after one dose was extrapolated from the study and was not the purpose of the study.
Right now, the best bet for the best protection is two doses. The side effects of the second dose are incredibly manageable if you even have side effects. I could have worked through them easily.
It depends on where you are. If you're in NY, and the priority is felons/drug addicts, vs. elderly/immune compromised it's different vs. Texas in Denton County where the issue is availability.Squadron7 said:
So what is the bigger bottleneck right now? Production or distribution?
dunning-kruger in full effectnortex97 said:
I can't comprehend why a lay person would think they get the science/statistics better than the vaccine mfg's and FDA folks who approved it.
They also have ACE2 problems, which is the vector. It's not altogether shocking in that way.agforlife97 said:
There's emerging evidence in nursing homes that the first dose of the vaccine doesn't appear all that effective on the 80+ crowd. The studies on the vaccine didn't enroll many of these folks.
Quote:
Nachman Ash Israel's equivalent of Dr. Anthony Fauci said the protection offered by the first dose is "less effective than we had thought," Army Radio reported.
"Many people have been infected between the first and second injections of the vaccine," Ash said, adding that the protective effect appears "lower than [the data] presented by Pfizer."
The pharmaceutical giant has claimed that trials show it is roughly 52 percent effective around 12 days after receiving the first shot, the BBC reported.
But that level of protection rises to 95 percent around two weeks after the second dose.
It's unclear exactly how effective the shot has been for the more than 2 million Israelis who have already received the first dose.
Questions were raised about the vaccine's performance after health officials on Monday announced 10,000 new cases, the highest since the pandemic began.
if the first shot is at least helping prevent symptomatic severe courses, we should see that eminentlyQuote:
Already more than 2 million Israelis have had their first Pfizer shot, while 400,000 have had a second.
Amid warnings that 30% to 40% of the new infections were being driven by a Covid-19 variant first identified in the UK, the Israeli cabinet was meeting on Tuesday to consider tightening existing restrictions. Some analysts, however, have put the prevalence of the new variant at lower levels.
The cabinet had been warned by Ash that the new variant was set to become the main source of infections in Israel within weeks.
The new concern follows the release of data on Monday by Israel's health ministry recording 10,021 infections the previous day, with a positivity rate above the 10% mark for the first time in more than three months, suggesting widespread community transmission.
The rates of infection have undercut the sense of optimism that the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has tried to project around Israel's vaccination campaign, for which he has taken credit.
Are they only considering people infected between days 12 - 21 in Israel? Getting infected on the day after you got the shot should not be considered as we know that vaccine offers no protection until 10 days post vaccination at the earliest.cone said:
https://nypost.com/2021/01/19/nachman-ash-says-pfizers-first-dose-less-effective-than-indicated/
this should throw cold water on the UK strategyQuote:
Nachman Ash Israel's equivalent of Dr. Anthony Fauci said the protection offered by the first dose is "less effective than we had thought," Army Radio reported.
"Many people have been infected between the first and second injections of the vaccine," Ash said, adding that the protective effect appears "lower than [the data] presented by Pfizer."
The pharmaceutical giant has claimed that trials show it is roughly 52 percent effective around 12 days after receiving the first shot, the BBC reported.
But that level of protection rises to 95 percent around two weeks after the second dose.
It's unclear exactly how effective the shot has been for the more than 2 million Israelis who have already received the first dose.
Questions were raised about the vaccine's performance after health officials on Monday announced 10,000 new cases, the highest since the pandemic began.
proof of the pudding is in the eatingQuote:
Until then, all these reports of vaccine failures are largely worthless and should be taken with a large grain of salt.
Never mind, misunderstoodcone said:proof of the pudding is in the eatingQuote:
Until then, all these reports of vaccine failures are largely worthless and should be taken with a large grain of salt.
we should see covid hospitalizations fall off a cliff in Israel within the next 2-4 weeks if as good as advertised
was hoping the first dose would show that as well, but not gangbusters so far
Sorry, I didn't realize you meant Israel. You are right that hopefully they start to see significant progress in the next month or two.cone said:
i thought the article said 2 million israelis had gotten the first dose and 400k had gotten the 2nd
so they're about 20-25% through the full population on the first dose and 4-5% fully vaccinated
with those vaccinations going predominantly to the higher risk higher age population
so you'd think you'd see some strong progress 5 weeks in, specifically in terms of hospitalizations, if the first shot worked to alleviate that impact
this isn't to throw cold water on the whole project, just to strongly question the 1 shot dose approach
personally, i won't feel reasonably protected until i get the well-described chills and fever from the second shot. everyone should want that.