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I'm not sure that it's a fix, but the debate is important. It's been oppressed for too long.

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How has it been oppressed?

I think this is an example of "functional medicine"

beerad12man said:

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I still find it so weird how against HQC some of you are? Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. There seems to be some evidence that it does, on the other hand some other stuff comes out that questions it.

Okay, so what's the big deal? The side effects seem to be virtually nothing, and it isn't like this is stopping others from trying to find different treatments / vaccines. So basically, no harm, no foul. And yet some just s*** all over anyone who thinks maybe it's helping? I have a hard time understanding where those people are coming from, but to each their own.

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Yeah that side effect of death is no biggie

Dr Immanuel discussed (several times) today at the President's press conference. The issue perhaps getting traction.

Years ago there was an old guy that lived in Bryan, Tx. I got to know him pretty well. Really interesting guy that had lived a fascinating life. He was Spiro Agnew's science advisor. He was an Navy officer and he was ordained as a witch doctor when he was stationed in Jamaica. Now the way you become an ordained witch doctor is that you have to successfully put a hex on something. He had a lemon tree in yard and everyone kept stealing the lemons. So he put a curse on the lemon tree and if you are his lemons you would die.

No one ever ate one of his lemons so naturally it was because the curse was so powerful.


The point of this story, it that this chick isn't even a very good witch doctor.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/24/fda-issues-warnings-on-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-after-serious-poisoning-and-death-reported.html

Two studies claiming this have been retracted. That drug has been used for years. My grandfather a retired Aggie with the USDA used it in South America as stated above.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/two-elite-medical-journals-retract-coronavirus-papers-over-data-integrity-questions

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

Covid causes tachycardia and elevated heart rate. Not HCQ. I know because I had it and Also have had tachychardia for months since getting sick.

one local hospital is treating with HCQ if you are admitted with COVID

The JAMA study referenced gave HCQ to two groups of patients who had already been hospitalized for some time.
Unable to find if they also used zinc or zpack in addition to the HCQ.

Best to use HCQ+zinc+zpack early after diagnosis to prevent hospitalization. After hospitalization (or well into it) is dangerously late unless one's intent is to game a study.

That is complete and utter BS. HCQ has been a safe drug for decades.

You are incorrect.

Not sure why the FDA is warning on it . . .but it is:

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or

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une 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery.

The FDA is aware of reports of serious heart rhythm problems in patients with COVID-19 treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, often in combination with azithromycin and other QT prolonging medicines.

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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2765360

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The potential harms are substantial. Hydroxychloroquine is QT prolonging, which poses a risk of sudden cardiac death in certain populations. People with autoimmune conditions, disproportionately women and people of color, could face disease flares owing to medication shortages.7 The burden may fall hardest on the most vulnerable; low-income patients worldwide could be the first to lose access to hydroxychloroquine therapy.

Given the toll of COVID-19, the pressure to do something is enormous and understandable. But that must not prompt clinicians to jettison the tenets of evidence-based medicine and the admonition to do no harm.

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https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/antimalarials-widely-used-against-covid-19-heighten-risk-cardiac-arrest-how-can-doctors

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At the Mayo Clinic, Ackerman treats patients predisposed to heart arrhythmias because of genetic conditions. Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, he knows, have a potentially fatal side effect: They can cause a type of irregular heart rhythm that sometimes leads to cardiac arrest. "The side effect is rarethat's the great news," Ackerman says. But doctors can't say just how risky these drugs are for gravely ill COVID-19 patients based on data from other groups of people who have taken them over the decades. The expert on the radio was comparing, "not apple to oranges, but apples to watermelons," he says.

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If that were true why have people been taking it for decades with no issues until just now?

I would like to see the actual cases, there are many Dr. that prescribe HCQ all day long saying those side effects are Rare to non existent.

As every article said . . .the issues were very well known.

They seem narrow in scope to me but couple that with most proper non-anecdotal research showing that the various HCQ cocktail proposals having zero value and I can see why most doctors move on to better options.

There are actually way more studies showing the value of HCQ, Than the now redacted studies like the lancet study and others.

The symptoms of which you speak are very very rare and well known to be rare.

My Dr is having great success with it so I will be using it.

You don't have to use it. You think it's dangerous you shouldn't use it.

"Third, concerns have been raised by the FDA and others about risks of cardiac arrhythmia, especially when hydroxychloroquine is given in combination with azithromycin. The FDA based its comments on data in its FDA Adverse Event Reporting System. This reporting system captured up to a thousand cases of arrhythmias attributed to hydroxychloroquine use. In fact, the number is likely higher than that, since the reporting system, which requires physicians or patients to initiate contact with the FDA, appreciably undercounts drug side effects.

But what the FDA did not announce is that these adverse events were generated from tens of millions of patient uses of hydroxychloroquine for long periods of time, often for the chronic treatment of lupus or rheumatoid arthritis. Even if the true rates of arrhythmia are ten-fold higher than those reported, the harms would be minuscule compared to the mortality occurring right now in inadequately treated high-risk COVID-19 patients. This fact is proven by an Oxford University study of more than 320,000 older patients taking both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, who had arrhythmia excess death rates of less than 9/100,000 users, as I discuss in my May 27 paper cited above. A new paper in the American Journal of Medicine by established cardiologists around the world fully agrees with this."

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535