deadbq03 said:

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wbt5845 said:

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I'm often amazed at the naivete of civilians regarding concepts such as obeying orders, chain of command, etc.

This captain was not empowered to make that call which is why he was rightfully fired. He ought to be prosecuted for multiple UCMJ violations.

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I beg to differ. The oath I took to be commissioned was explicitly different than an oath of enlistment... the phrase "obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me" is found in the enlistment oath, but it is not found in the oath of commissioned officers.

My instructors made this point explicitly clear - there may be a time when your situational awareness, intimate knowledge of your troops, etc dictates that you have to make a decision that goes against the orders of officers above you. As an officer you have a duty to your troops to make that call (but you better be dang sure about it).

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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Poor guy didn't last 4 months. Remember the last one?

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AG 2000' said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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Poor guy didn't last 4 months. Remember the last one?

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This guy sounds like a tool.

Good order and discipline? Like calling a ship's commander stupid to the face of his command?

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knoxtom said:

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Sometimes in life, especially when you are a high ranking person or a leader, there is no way out.

Had he not opened his mouth, given the close quarters on the ship, a thousand or so would have got sick and many would have died. They were overwhelmed with the 150 sick already. Do you think his supervisors would have fallen on the sword? Of course not, by keeping his mouth shut he would have been fired and people would have died.

Option 2 - going public. He knew he had a really good chance of being fired, but he thought it would save lives.

Either way, he was getting fired, there was no way out.

Not the Navy's fault either, they had to remove him as you can't let the world know a carrier is a less than full strength.

Kobayashi Maru

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Not sure I understand why Modly (a civilian) was racing out to be first firing Crozier instead of the investigation/relieving Crozier of his duties being handled through the uniformed officers chain of command. Won't surprise me if Modly ultimately pays a price for his actions in this as well, because he seems to have ticked off at least a few people in the Pentagon.

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And there ya go....Modly gone.

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Quote:

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He showed the email to a handful of the most senior officers on the ship. They told him they wanted to sign it, too. Captain Crozier, fearing for their careers, told them no.

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Quote:

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As Captain Crozier walked off his ship and down the gangway wearing a black backpack and baseball cap, hundreds of sailors and aircrew members showed up on the hangar bay to form a corridor for him. Videos of the crew cheering and shouting "Captain Crozier" immediately went viral.
And that, Navy officials said, infuriated Mr. Modly. His next actions stunned Pentagon officials and effectively turned the crew of the Roosevelt even more solidly against him.
Mr. Modly boarded a Gulfstream business jet at an airfield in suburban Washington and made the 35-hour round-trip flight to Guam, at a cost of $243,116.65, according to a Navy official, confirming a report in USA Today. When he landed, he spoke with Mr. Ignatius to defend himself. He also wrote a letter to The New York Times in which he again criticized the captain he had fired and who had, by now, tested positive for the coronavirus.
Then he went to the Roosevelt and delivered a 15-minute diatribe over the ship's loudspeakers berating the crew for cheering for its captain. He called Captain Crozier either "too nave" or "too stupid" to command an aircraft carrier. He told the sailors they should never trust the media. He blamed China for the virus. Less than 30 minutes later, after taking no questions from the sailors, he was gone.
Within another 30 minutes of his visit, audio of his remarks was being shared broadly across social media, complete with crew reaction. "What the?" one sailor was heard saying when Mr. Modly called Captain Crozier "stupid."

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Quote:

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...but at the time there were only 16 coronavirus cases in northern Vietnam and the port was in the central part of the country.

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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As of today, 230 positive cases so far.

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PJYoung said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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As of today, 230 positive cases so far.

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Over 600 now

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Tex100 said:

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PJYoung said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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As of today, 230 positive cases so far.

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Over 600 now

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550 is what I am told but close enough.

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Quote:

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Nearly 600 sailors on the Roosevelt have tested positive for Covid-19, the US Navy said in a statement, adding that 92% of the Roosevelt's crew members have been tested for the virus.

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PJYoung said:

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Tex100 said:

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PJYoung said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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As of today, 230 positive cases so far.

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Over 600 now

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550 is what I am told but close enough.

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Ah yeah I got that from this statement and remembered it as over 600.

Quote:

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Nearly 600 sailors on the Roosevelt have tested positive for Covid-19, the US Navy said in a statement, adding that 92% of the Roosevelt's crew members have been tested for the virus.

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Quote:

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585 had tested positive for coronavirus as of (today)

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UTExan said:

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deadbq03 said:

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wbt5845 said:

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I'm often amazed at the naivete of civilians regarding concepts such as obeying orders, chain of command, etc.

This captain was not empowered to make that call which is why he was rightfully fired. He ought to be prosecuted for multiple UCMJ violations.

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I beg to differ. The oath I took to be commissioned was explicitly different than an oath of enlistment... the phrase "obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me" is found in the enlistment oath, but it is not found in the oath of commissioned officers.

My instructors made this point explicitly clear - there may be a time when your situational awareness, intimate knowledge of your troops, etc dictates that you have to make a decision that goes against the orders of officers above you. As an officer you have a duty to your troops to make that call (but you better be dang sure about it).

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I am not certain that contacting CNN is ever a viable option, especially when you expose the health profile of your crew and you are commanding a strategic nuclear asset.

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PJYoung said:

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Tex100 said:

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PJYoung said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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As of today, 230 positive cases so far.

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Over 600 now

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550 is what I am told but close enough.

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Ah yeah I got that from this statement and remembered it as over 600.

Quote:

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Nearly 600 sailors on the Roosevelt have tested positive for Covid-19, the US Navy said in a statement, adding that 92% of the Roosevelt's crew members have been tested for the virus.

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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Has your sister's son mentioned how this mess is affecting the crew's morale?

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Tex100 said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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Has your sister's son mentioned how this mess is affecting the crew's morale?

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Haven't asked her and if I did, I wouldn't discuss it on a message board

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texan12 said:

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Tex100 said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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Has your sister's son mentioned how this mess is affecting the crew's morale?

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Haven't asked her and if I did, I wouldn't discuss it on a message board

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Why not?

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oragator said:

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DevilD77 said:

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This would be a very bad idea and not set a good command precedent.

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PJYoung said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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As of today, 230 positive cases so far.

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Over 600 now

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TXAggie2011 said:

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DevilD77 said:

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This would be a very bad idea and not set a good command precedent.

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Until we know the results of the investigation they carried out prior to making this recommendation, I'm not sure we're in a position to say either way.

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