This is not giving me a great deal of confidence about being on the streets at the PD with asthma.
beerad12man said:
I'm a little nervous being an asthmatic. I'm in good shape, but when I get a cold or flu I do tend to have a little heavier breathing. Not sure what this will/can do to me. The bad news? I'm in construction and WFH right now doesn't seem to be an option, though I'm debating on putting the ultimatum on my company to allow me to otherwise just not showing up.....
Zn works on viral replication, and the supposed action is to increase Zn in the cell.Badace52 said:Rock1982 said:
Reveille, if a patient is administered the drug as Prophylaxis, will that prevent developing an immunity to the virus?
No it will not if the patient at some point catches the disease after/despite prophylaxis.
BiochemAg97 said:Zn works on viral replication, and the supposed action is to increase Zn in the cell.Badace52 said:Rock1982 said:
Reveille, if a patient is administered the drug as Prophylaxis, will that prevent developing an immunity to the virus?
No it will not if the patient at some point catches the disease after/despite prophylaxis.
Hypothetically, if you get a small dose of virus, it enters cells and is shut down by the Zn, you might not have
enough exposure for the body to respond and build immunity. Get a big dose or repeated doses, you might have enough virus to trigger an immune response even if you don't get replication.
That said, it is unlikely that it will 100% shut down virus replication and more likely just to slow it down. If each virus is pumping out 100 or 1000 instead of a million, the then you get a much more mild infection, are less contagious, and still develop immunity. Think of it like flattening the curve in your body. You need time to develop immunity and build the immune response. If you get to that point with a small number of infected cells, no problem. If you infect a bunch of cells before your immune system can mount an effective response, a lot of damage can be done and your immune system is working from behind.
Also, the vaccines being currently tested will work completely differently, so I would not expect Zn to effect the vaccine when we get one.Rock1982 said:BiochemAg97 said:Zn works on viral replication, and the supposed action is to increase Zn in the cell.Badace52 said:Rock1982 said:
Reveille, if a patient is administered the drug as Prophylaxis, will that prevent developing an immunity to the virus?
No it will not if the patient at some point catches the disease after/despite prophylaxis.
Hypothetically, if you get a small dose of virus, it enters cells and is shut down by the Zn, you might not have
enough exposure for the body to respond and build immunity. Get a big dose or repeated doses, you might have enough virus to trigger an immune response even if you don't get replication.
That said, it is unlikely that it will 100% shut down virus replication and more likely just to slow it down. If each virus is pumping out 100 or 1000 instead of a million, the then you get a much more mild infection, are less contagious, and still develop immunity. Think of it like flattening the curve in your body. You need time to develop immunity and build the immune response. If you get to that point with a small number of infected cells, no problem. If you infect a bunch of cells before your immune system can mount an effective response, a lot of damage can be done and your immune system is working from behind.
Thanks. That's what I was hoping.
This is absolutely correct!! This is a different animal than we are used to treating. People decompensate at a rapid rate around day 6 to 8 and without ventilators available there is no way to save them.Badace52 said:
Saw my first really sick people from this thing over the past few days in Waco. Moving this from another thread where it might get more traffic. I think it needs to be seen and heard.Shagga said:Wow. This is completely unexpected - common sense displayed.Quote:
MARCH 23 9:48 a.m. Despite speculation and rumors, Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo says she will not issue a "shelter-in-place" or "stay-at-home" order at this time. Hidalgo also says the term "shelter in place" is not the correct term for the Houston-area community. That term, she says, is typically reserved for hurricanes, active shooter drills, etc. She says local officials, from both the county and the City of Houston, continue to evaluate the needs of the Houston area and may provide an update later in the day Monday with "next steps" for our community.
Wrong... Every major and minor city in Texas should be sheltering in place yesterday. Waco has started to see the first really sick people from this after getting our first confirmed cases about a week ago.
I can tell you from experience that this disease is a different animal. It will flat kill anybody with poor lung reserve or function.
Waco actually had the good sense to order a shelter-in-place this morning going into effect at midnight. Other cities would do well to do this before the bad cases start showing up in ERs.
Don't fool yourself. This stuff is everywhere and it looks and acts differently from anything I have ever seen.
I was cautious but not really scared until I saw the first people really sick from this. I am scared now
Thank you for your explanation. The idea is not that this will completely prevent you from getting sick but if you slow down viral reproduction a little that maybe you only get mild symptoms. And once you have recovered you should have developed some immunity.BiochemAg97 said:Zn works on viral replication, and the supposed action is to increase Zn in the cell.Badace52 said:Rock1982 said:
Reveille, if a patient is administered the drug as Prophylaxis, will that prevent developing an immunity to the virus?
No it will not if the patient at some point catches the disease after/despite prophylaxis.
Hypothetically, if you get a small dose of virus, it enters cells and is shut down by the Zn, you might not have
enough exposure for the body to respond and build immunity. Get a big dose or repeated doses, you might have enough virus to trigger an immune response even if you don't get replication.
That said, it is unlikely that it will 100% shut down virus replication and more likely just to slow it down. If each virus is pumping out 100 or 1000 instead of a million, the then you get a much more mild infection, are less contagious, and still develop immunity. Think of it like flattening the curve in your body. You need time to develop immunity and build the immune response. If you get to that point with a small number of infected cells, no problem. If you infect a bunch of cells before your immune system can mount an effective response, a lot of damage can be done and your immune system is working from behind.
Every hospital I would suspect will be using these medications. We are all working together to find a treatment plan that is effective. Most of us doctors are scouring the medical literature as fast as it comes out on what is best. Researching older diseases like SARS from coronavirus to find the best way to save as many American lives as we can.Player To Be Named Later said:
Ok, let's talk worst case scenario planning. I'm in Denton. I'm trying to decide if I have enough faith in either Denton Hospital ER (Presby or Medical City).
Somewhat debating if I should think of a better hospital ahead of time to consider. Anyone have thoughts?
I am somewhat nervous about whether either Denton Hospital will be using things like hydrochloroquine, or any of the other med showing promise.
CowtownAg06 said:
When you say lockdown, what do you mean? What is still happening in major Texas cities that needs to cut?
I think you are too caught up on "FDA approval". We use hundreds of drugs off-label daily. Companies have already stated they will ramp up production. This is a non-issue.74OA said:Yes, but that's not my question. If it's a good treatment for the virus, approve it as such and promote it.RM1993 said:It doesn't have to be FDA approved for doctors to prescribe it off label.74OA said:
..........and why the lack of outcry from docs to get it promptly FDA approved as a virus treatment?
Right now we have the federal medical folks still saying it's unproven and potentially unsafe.
Which is it? No company is going to up production to meet the need until the FDA commits.
And FWIW, SOME construction is vital for our infrastructure. Obviously we have to safe roads for the transportation of supplies.beerad12man said:CowtownAg06 said:
When you say lockdown, what do you mean? What is still happening in major Texas cities that needs to cut?
Construction seems to be a non essential that just goes on like nothing is happening
The other thing is for these businesses it's not just business as normal. I'm in O&G, an exempt business. I'm not saying we should shut down, but us being exempt and continuing to operate means we're taking precautions as well. We are literally buying every drum, bottle, etc. of hand sanitizer we can. Same for thermometers, masks, disinfectant wipes, etc.Drifter. said:
Hopefully the construction crews will be at less of a risk by working outdoors.
On this concern, I have a 27 year old Ag daughter that had several multi-day asthma icu stays pre-age 12. Under the care of a pediactric pulmonologist through college but no real issues since college. Would she still be considered asthmatic and higher risk or is she far enough past that to have elevated concerns? Btw, she is a middle school teacher in DFW area currently living with us and quarantining except for occasional at work requirements.Badace52 said:beerad12man said:
I'm a little nervous being an asthmatic. I'm in good shape, but when I get a cold or flu I do tend to have a little heavier breathing. Not sure what this will/can do to me. The bad news? I'm in construction and WFH right now doesn't seem to be an option, though I'm debating on putting the ultimatum on my company to allow me to otherwise just not showing up.....
I'm asthmatic as well, but I am not on daily meds for it. It worries me for myself seeing how this affects young healthy lungs and oxygenation, but I think unless you are an asthmatic who is higher risk (history of frequent hospitalization from asthma or intubation in past from asthma or on chronic oral, not inhaled steroids) you will probably able to pull through ok, though I do worry we will see asthmatics, (including myself), need supplemental oxygen and hospitalization for at least part of their course of disease.
Construction and home repairs are different categories. Home repairs for vital services like plumbing (clean water & sanitation), HVAC, etc. are absolutely essential and need to remain open. However, construction on projects like new homes, home additions, pagodas, etc. are not usually vital. Also, if a tornado has done enough damage that you need your bedroom rebuilt, you are relocating for a few months anyway at the very least in normal circumstances.3rd Generation Ag said:
If you don't exempt construction and home repairs and we get hit by an epic hail storm or tornado outbreak then there would be no one to fix those broken windows or build a room back over your bedroom.
barnyard1996 said:
Dont we have some idea with some evidence? You are a little dismissive to some front line reports.
AggieBiker said:On this concern, I have a 27 year old Ag daughter that had several multi-day asthma icu stays pre-age 12. Under the care of a pediactric pulmonologist through college but no real issues since college. Would she still be considered asthmatic and higher risk or is she far enough past that to have elevated concerns? Btw, she is a middle school teacher in DFW area currently living with us and quarantining except for occasional at work requirements.Badace52 said:beerad12man said:
I'm a little nervous being an asthmatic. I'm in good shape, but when I get a cold or flu I do tend to have a little heavier breathing. Not sure what this will/can do to me. The bad news? I'm in construction and WFH right now doesn't seem to be an option, though I'm debating on putting the ultimatum on my company to allow me to otherwise just not showing up.....
I'm asthmatic as well, but I am not on daily meds for it. It worries me for myself seeing how this affects young healthy lungs and oxygenation, but I think unless you are an asthmatic who is higher risk (history of frequent hospitalization from asthma or intubation in past from asthma or on chronic oral, not inhaled steroids) you will probably able to pull through ok, though I do worry we will see asthmatics, (including myself), need supplemental oxygen and hospitalization for at least part of their course of disease.
are kids not allowed to be outside anymore? I'm seeing tons of people on the hike & bike paths around The Woodlands. I thought it was okay since no one is touching equipment that other people touch, people are distancing from other people, etc. Am I supposed to yell at clouds and refer to everyone outside walking, jogging, or riding a bike or kids running around out front or on their bikes as "deniers"?Big Al 1992 said:
Dr. Rev,
What do you say to the deniers - friends that are going about their business, drinking w friends, kids running in and out of their house, "there's only 51 cases in Harris County - this is overblown"
I'm thinking this post was referencing kids running in and out of each others' houses. No non-family contact.oh no said:are kids not allowed to be outside anymore? I'm seeing tons of people on the hike & bike paths around The Woodlands. I thought it was okay since no one is touching equipment that other people touch, people are distancing from other people, etc. Am I supposed to yell at clouds and refer to everyone outside walking, jogging, or riding a bike or kids running around out front or on their bikes as "deniers"?Big Al 1992 said:
Dr. Rev,
What do you say to the deniers - friends that are going about their business, drinking w friends, kids running in and out of their house, "there's only 51 cases in Harris County - this is overblown"
Thank you for the clarification and I now better understand your position.Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:
I'm dismissive of anecdotes when discussing efficacy, and unfortunately that's what front-line reports are. As I have mentioned, people are more likely to claim efficacy than to state they are not seeing good results, so the front-line reports you are hearing will be extremely biased towards positive. We just don't know yet whether this drug works. The French study was so flawed that its data is essentially uninterpretable, and as I have mentioned HCQ has a known history of performing well in in vitro studies, and performing poorly in clinical trials. I'm sure I am going to get pummeled again on here for stating this, but I really think expectations should be tempered a bit. Nevertheless, I'm not saying we shouldn't be trying this for severe cases or for those that are very high risk.
proudaggie02 said:
Reveille & other docs/chemists/pharmacists,
I have a couple Z-packs (500 mg x 6), as my parents live in South Texas near Mexico and often bring them to me when they visit. I don't take them but my wife takes about 1-2/year.
Would there be any benefit to taking a Z-pack, zinc, and quercetin? I've had sinus (mainly allergies) issues for 3-4 weeks, though they've been fairly mild lately.