SeMgCo87 said:

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T,

There is a house along Kirkwood just North of Buffalo Bayou that has been under Construction for awhile (possibly Wilcrest, I don't know, I slept since then). Nice, high-end neighborhood. Before Harvey, it was bricked, but I can not say if it was Insulated / Drywalled.

I think the flood level from Harvey (or the dam releases) reached about 3' up the brick. Last time I drove by the house, the brick had been demo'ed, and sheathing stripped.

You might want to contact the builder as to the "why" of his decision.

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Please go away if you're not going to try to help find a solution.

geez man, i think the guy is giving you honest feedback. if you don't want to listen to it just ignore it and repair how you want.

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to update everyone... I am working on getting my diagrams, of how we have used our closed cell spray foam to fix the problem, stamped by engineering department. I have gone to many city halls, spoke with their officials, and have gotten thumbs up across the board. Anywhere and Anyone needing help with their Gypsum and exposed brick issues can call me.

John Harper
Energy Assault Solutions
Houston, Tx
541-301-1720 cell
877-FOAM-538

WE ARE THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY, AND OUR RESULTS SPEAK VOLUMES!!

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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So 1978 house flooded 41-42 inches
Gutting to 8feet
Question is how to correct replace the sheathing / vapor barrier behind the brick...without removing the brick? Is there such a way?

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Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to update everyone... I am working on getting my diagrams, of how we have used our closed cell spray foam to fix the problem, stamped by engineering department. I have gone to many city halls, spoke with their officials, and have gotten thumbs up across the board. Anywhere and Anyone needing help with their Gypsum and exposed brick issues can call me.

John Harper
Energy Assault Solutions
Houston, Tx
541-301-1720 cell
877-FOAM-538

WE ARE THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY, AND OUR RESULTS SPEAK VOLUMES!!

hatchback said:

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Theres no way to replace the exterior sheathing without removing the brick because of the brick ties that connect the brick to the wall.

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Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to update everyone... I am working on getting my diagrams, of how we have used our closed cell spray foam to fix the problem, stamped by engineering department. I have gone to many city halls, spoke with their officials, and have gotten thumbs up across the board. Anywhere and Anyone needing help with their Gypsum and exposed brick issues can call me.

John Harper
Energy Assault Solutions
Houston, Tx
541-301-1720 cell
877-FOAM-538

WE ARE THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY, AND OUR RESULTS SPEAK VOLUMES!!

Can you post details on your approved process?

I am a public insurance adjuster and fighting this battle every flood. I hope to have more ammunition with Harvey.

1. The proper way is brick replacement and I have one that on some.
2. My 2nd option of best alternative is MTIdry.com with brick ties, drill weep holes, proper cleaning, closed cell spray in foam.

The insurance companies most of the time avoid this gypsum and want to clean and treat with anti-microbial and then future possible health problems could occur.

Fema/NFIP came out with a dumb engineers report years ago of how to replace the gypsum from inside. Most peer reviews confirm the report was dumb. The problem is we are dealing with Washington DC, Independent adjusting managers, then WYO's and such. Some adjusters agree and try to do the correct process #1 , others are shot down by WYO's and managers.

We the people must unite, seek common code compliance, osha must mandate change and proper claims handling to get Washington, FEMA-NFIP to change. In addition to gypsum we have another major clean up issue they call muck out. They attempt to pay for light duty cleaning and restrict proper dry out time and number of fans. The 3 day rule is risky depending on the amount and type of water.

Richard Myers

We are fixing by doing closed cell spray foam, using something similar to the MTI method.

As FYI: here is what my adjuster sent us as the approved method. We did get $ from them to fix it and it basically covers the cost of the closed cell spray foam:

REPAIR - BUILDER BOARD
The following items address the replacement of the builder board attached to the studs on the perimeter of the structure installed between the brick veneer and the outside of the stud walls.
NOTE: The water damaged builder board is cut above the area affected by the water between the studs of all brick veneer exterior wall surfaces. All remaining nails are cut with reciprocating saw as well as any remaining builder board behind the studs. 2" x 3" furring strips are cut and nailed to the replacement builder board, which has been cut to fit and cover the studs to the required overlap (center of the stud). The replacement board, with furring strips, is fitted into the cavity and the furring strips are nailed to the studs. Sealant is applied to the seams to create a moisture barrier.
Estimate components include:
R&R Builder board - 1/2"
R&R 2" x 3" lumber (.5 BF per LF) Addressing two furring strips per cavity times height of repair. (studs at 16" centers)
Urethane foam sealant
Carpenter - General Framer - per hour 10 LF of perimeter per hour

The system you outline is from the old engineers report that most engineers think is nuts. I will agree it is better than not doing anything.

Also clarify your cost. Labor and material what was the cost per sq. ft. to demo gypsum, clean, install furring and new board? How many brick ties are being placed between the studs?

Are you making sure the closed cell foam is quality product and completely dry before closing up the wall? What is total time from start to finish?

I dont see how you can seal the exterior joints (horizontal & vertical) of sheathing when doing the replacement from inside. Also the stud is exposed to moisture, and brick ties would need to be removed. Brick removal seems to be the only correct way.
Has anyone used to MTI product successfully? I dont have base flashing at weeps like the video.
Flood insurance sent engineer last week to evaluate, and he said there was some fixes from inside but FEMA makes that determination for what they pay for. But he did say just spray foaming wall cavity behind brick is not an option. My existing sheathing just crumbled and fell apart in some places. I want to remove brick, install fiberglass faced sheathing, tape seams and roll on waterproofing with base flashing, and reinstall new brick or stone. Still haven't got a bid back from my mason.

Anyone have some ballpark sqft prices for closed cell spray foam install?

Our case is a bit different. No gypsum boards, we had the styrofoam boarding. We had 1 ft of it removed in error (bad advice given to us).

Use another board to fill in all the spots between studs, tie into existing board, then spray foam it sealed. Weep holes remain open, totally sealed.

Only thing y'all made me realize is the studs would be exposed I think? I'll have to ask again on if the new board goes all the way down to cover the studs, then more board around the studs before spray foam between the studs.

Thoughts? . .

Heard around $3.50 per sq ft, $4-5k for us

The method the average flood adjuster will give is referenced by the engineers report from July, 2001 comparable steps of the furring.

The proper method if you have damaged composite board between the studs and brick is brick replacement.

Flood adjusters depending on who they work for will normally by pass this subject and only offer minimal money per sq. ft to R&R board. Then the average home owner will follow the contractors advice and possibly remove, clean and spray foam with no new brick ties and some times no board replacement at all.

Depending on the height brick replacement may not be necessary.

Then you can use the MTIdry or as outlined above the furring methods, but you should add brick ties. Either way if you replace board higher than 18" and disturb a brick tie you should add new brick ties. And yes that can be done from inside.
What are the average contractors providing warranty to protect brick failure.

Installing brick ties from inside, Using epoxy compared to mortar is much better than no new brick ties being added. What is the code requirement in your area? Are permits being pulled?

We have a general permit to repair the house. It was given to us via mail and free by Harris County. Is that good enough?

Not sure if we will disturb any brick ties since it wasn't all that high.

The adjuster gave us a little over $5k for the board replacement using his method.

Appreciate all the help and thoughts. We will keep thinking and talk to the contractors again before we do anything.

I would just like to add to all of those making comments on this forum about the backer boards... our home is built in the late 70s it has the old backer board that has paper on both sides and needs to be removed after the flood I've had several people say it doesn't need to be replaced because the insurance company doesn't want to pay for it.. it's too expensive to take the brick off and do it properly the problem here is mold will grow on that paper in between the walls so not replacing it is a mistake replacing it from the inside I am just not sure about..you're not properly repairing it because there's going to be pieces behind the studs and or you're going to damage the brick veneer. also take into account that if your spray foaming what happens the next time you have a major flood or water damage all of that needs to take into account does it hold moisture in our Texas humidity and Heat I think the best course of action is to remove the brick and replace the backer board especially under the circumstances of our humidity and the fact that mold grows very easily in this area.. I don't know about anyone here but I'm allergic to mold now,due to this exact situation that was not disclosed when I purchases a home and had mold between the walls that no one knew about I have been sick not for 5 yrs. And eaxh time i get exposed to molds i am very sick for a very long time and I sure wouldn't want anyone else to become that sick because once you have it, it doesn't go away there is no fix for it you're permanently allergic to mold and can stay sick for up to six months at a time to get past it so just a word to the wise better to be safe than sorry.. I know it's expensive especially if you don't have insurance but is it worth your health and your families Health two avoid doing it the proper way due to cost, trust me I'm going to have to say no. Just giving my experience in a similar type issue the only difference is it wasn't disclosed to me so I didn't have a choice whether I could fix it properly or not.

Can you rewrite that with some actual sentence structure and maybe some punctuation?

Hey guys, I'm over by Frostwood Elem, and had 4 feet in my house for 10 days. We just moved into the house and weren't covered by FEMA flood yet so all my rebuilding is coming out of pocket.

I acknowledge the BEST way to deal with the sheathing issue is to remove the external cladding, but my house is almost all brick and my first quote to remove/replace came in at $50k - that ain't happening.

My sheathing is Gold Bond water resistant gypsum sheathing, and it's not showing any signs of crumbling or degradation of integrity. I've only removed it in some places - can you help me understand why all would need to be removed?

Also, for those who have gone down the MTI + foam route, can you provide any status updates? What was your total cost (and the SF of your 1st floor)?

This is 100% true... However we have an approved method of repairing the damage with our CLOSED CELL spray foam.

We are a Houston based company working with several hundred homeowners, contractors, and property management companies daily.

www.energyassault.com

John Harper
CELL 541-301-1720
OFFICE 877-362-6538

yes sir!
www.energyassault.com

call me I will come out and help you

John Harper
877-362-6538
Harper@energyassault.com

you do not need to do all of that.. Please call me
John Harper
877-362-6538 office
541-301-1720 cell

We have an approved method of repairing the damage with our CLOSED CELL spray foam.

We are a Houston based company working with several hundred homeowners, contractors, and property management companies daily.

www.energyassault.com

John Harper
CELL 541-301-1720
OFFICE 877-362-6538

We have an approved method of repairing the damage with our CLOSED CELL spray foam.

We are a Houston based company working with several hundred homeowners, contractors, and property management companies daily.

www.energyassault.com

John Harper
CELL 541-301-1720
OFFICE 877-362-6538

Two options without having to remove the brick. One uses a drainage mat directly against the brick, and the other uses extruded polystyrene sheets; this is followed by spray polyurethane foam and acrylic latex paint over interior of the assembly.

https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insights/bsi-101-rebuilding-houston#_ftn3

Aggie Athlete Involved said:

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Our case is a bit different. No gypsum boards, we had the styrofoam boarding. We had 1 ft of it removed in error (bad advice given to us).

Use another board to fill in all the spots between studs, tie into existing board, then spray foam it sealed. Weep holes remain open, totally sealed.

Only thing y'all made me realize is the studs would be exposed I think? I'll have to ask again on if the new board goes all the way down to cover the studs, then more board around the studs before spray foam between the studs.

Thoughts? . .

Heard around $3.50 per sq ft, $4-5k for us

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Call me I will come out and walk you through everything
541-301-1720 is my cell or call my office 281-661-3632 ask for Harper

We are working with a LONG list of contractors and have done several hundred homes so far! WE ARE HERE TO HELP!

TMoney2007 said:

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SeMgCo87 said:

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T,

There is a house along Kirkwood just North of Buffalo Bayou that has been under Construction for awhile (possibly Wilcrest, I don't know, I slept since then). Nice, high-end neighborhood. Before Harvey, it was bricked, but I can not say if it was Insulated / Drywalled.

I think the flood level from Harvey (or the dam releases) reached about 3' up the brick. Last time I drove by the house, the brick had been demo'ed, and sheathing stripped.

You might want to contact the builder as to the "why" of his decision.

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Please go away if you're not going to try to help find a solution.

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I have stamped approval for our company to do the repair. I have seen so many "skilled contractors" out here telling people its "good enough" and in reality ITS NOT ... THEIR REPAIRING INCORRECTLY.
I am tired of seeing people being taken advantage of by contractors that are not doing the work properly!

call me and I will GLADLY COME OUT AND HELP WITH YOUR HOME OR ANY INVESTMENT PROPERTIES you have ! You will get documentation approving the work as well!

WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU !
my cell is
541-301-1720 and the office is 281-661-3632
ask for Harper

Aggie Athlete Involved said:

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We are fixing by doing closed cell spray foam, using something similar to the MTI method.

As FYI: here is what my adjuster sent us as the approved method. We did get $ from them to fix it and it basically covers the cost of the closed cell spray foam:

REPAIR - BUILDER BOARD
The following items address the replacement of the builder board attached to the studs on the perimeter of the structure installed between the brick veneer and the outside of the stud walls.
NOTE: The water damaged builder board is cut above the area affected by the water between the studs of all brick veneer exterior wall surfaces. All remaining nails are cut with reciprocating saw as well as any remaining builder board behind the studs. 2" x 3" furring strips are cut and nailed to the replacement builder board, which has been cut to fit and cover the studs to the required overlap (center of the stud). The replacement board, with furring strips, is fitted into the cavity and the furring strips are nailed to the studs. Sealant is applied to the seams to create a moisture barrier.
Estimate components include:
R&R Builder board - 1/2"
R&R 2" x 3" lumber (.5 BF per LF) Addressing two furring strips per cavity times height of repair. (studs at 16" centers)
Urethane foam sealant
Carpenter - General Framer - per hour 10 LF of perimeter per hour

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JUST FYI.... the can foam sealant that you are using to seal IS NOT CREATING A MOISTURE BARRIER..
in fact. THEY DO NOT make a closed cell spray foam in a can.

if you have any questions call me .. 541-301-1720 or my office is 281-661-3632 ask for Harper
I am here in Houston and I am here to help!

texagpilot said:

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I dont see how you can seal the exterior joints (horizontal & vertical) of sheathing when doing the replacement from inside. Also the stud is exposed to moisture, and brick ties would need to be removed. Brick removal seems to be the only correct way.
Has anyone used to MTI product successfully? I dont have base flashing at weeps like the video.
Flood insurance sent engineer last week to evaluate, and he said there was some fixes from inside but FEMA makes that determination for what they pay for. But he did say just spray foaming wall cavity behind brick is not an option. My existing sheathing just crumbled and fell apart in some places. I want to remove brick, install fiberglass faced sheathing, tape seams and roll on waterproofing with base flashing, and reinstall new brick or stone. Still haven't got a bid back from my mason.

Anyone have some ballpark sqft prices for closed cell spray foam install?

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call me if you are still needing help.
541-301-1720 I am here in Houston and will gladly come out and walk you through the process and give you pricing . You can also call my office 281-661-3632 as for Harper

TMoney2007 said:

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Aggie Athlete Involved said:

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Options that I've learned:

1. Replace styrofoam board -- cut pieces to match size, put in place, seal in. Tedious work if not done well will be problematic in future.

2. Closed cell spray foam -- must have air gap like the video here. Anyone who says no air gap and sprays directly onto brick, move weep hole up is not doing it right. If done right should be just fine, but this is more expensive.

3. Celbar spray -- says they can spray directly onto brick.

*3: will learn more tomorrow after I meet with someone

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I guess the sprayed cellulose insulation has better permeability than closed cell foam.

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no! not even close

Has anyone actually had the spray foam done? I had it done but have yet to put up drywall, or any fiberglass insulation. I also have a lot of sheetrock from the celling ripped out. and of coarse the attic is vented. I also have not ran the ac at all........... This being said the humidity is off the charts. When I close the ceiling and put in walls and run the ac can I expect this to change.

I also wanted to add the only people I could find to do it, sprayed the close cell foam on the brick. The only person that I could find that would install a "air gap, drainage gap" had you tube videos of him doing it without any mask or even goggles he had two little tanks by his side. The people I hired had a truck with tanks and space suit type suits with air masks with air piped in from the outside etc. So I past on that guy. I was told it would be ok to spray right on the brick as long as I wasn't in a climate that froze all the time like new York.

I am a Houston-area engineer, class of 1986. I am interested in speaking with anyone who did the post-flood, rainscreen and closed cell foam repair behind their brick, similar to the MTI recommendation. I would offer to do free follow-up inspections with a moisture meter, to verify performance, no fee, just for my own knowledge, if anyone is interested. I can be contacted via email at jim.1964@yahoo.com. Thanks.

https://giphy.com/gifs/filmeditor-christmas-movies-macaulay-culkin-3ofT5JHYeF5CuxLrQA