Potential increase to 32+ baseball scholarships

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Panama Red
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9:27p, 5/3/24
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As part of the NIL settlement that will bring revenue sharing, there is something that all should agree is great.

More baseball scholarships, so every player could have a full ride.

Quote:


Further, according to a report from Yahoo Sports, the settlement would include a plan to implement roster limits for all sports and the expansion of scholarships to those limits. So, in baseball, there would no longer be a limit of 11.7 scholarships per team. Every team would have as many scholarships as there are roster positions. Today, baseball teams are allowed to have 32 players receiving scholarship money and 40 players total on the roster. A roster size of 32 feels more likely in this potential new reality, but it would undoubtably be subject to major debate before it was set.

Quote:


The settlement of the House lawsuit still has several hurdles to clear, and nothing is close to being finalized. But if the case does get settled, which is the expectation, and that settlement includes the plan to end equivalency sports, college baseball will be forever changed.

Schools would not be required to offer whatever the new scholarship limit would be, just as some schools today do not offer the full 11.7 scholarships for baseball. But the major powers would have potentially nearly tripled the number of scholarships they could offer. That would likely lead to a further concentration of power in the sport and make competition in those leagues even fiercer. That would probably lead to a push to separate baseball into subdivisions, like football. The downstream effects would be massive.



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greg.w.h
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9:36p, 5/3/24
AG
Not surprised. The NCAA dug a collusion hole almost to China then buried its collective head in it.

And that included ignoring a 9-0 decision that was based on anti-competitive behavior limited to JUST educational benefits. Then they restricted athlete efforts to obtain NIL deals…

The number to settle was $2.6 billion and the NCAA was still trying to limit civil liability of the members who voted on "legislation."

I do not believe they will succeed in bringing NIL in house at the member institutions without US Congress getting involved. And let's just say right now isn't politically expedient for at least half of Congress to pick a new fight with their primary supporters…
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F4GIB71
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9:52p, 5/3/24
I'd love to see this. A buddy's son played four years for UH and only got 1/3 of a scholarship his senior year.
F4GIB71
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The Marksman
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10:11p, 5/3/24
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The right thing to do for all those players that give it their all
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Gap
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10:29p, 5/3/24
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Average cost of a scholarship is $54,700. So 20 additional scholarships is about $1.1M per year over $11M for a 10 year period.

Where does the $ come from? Does it come out of potential NIL, potential facilities, cutting sports with substantial losses, etc.?

What does a model that increases funding and scholarships for sports with higher demand like baseball mean regarding Title IX?? Do we then need to add a ladies sports to get back into equilibrium on scholarship numbers or do we cut a male sport to make up the difference?
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91AggieLawyer
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In reply to Gap • 11:35p, 5/3/24
AG
Gap said:
Average cost of a scholarship is $54,700. So 20 additional scholarships is about $1.1M per year over $11M for a 10 year period.

Where does the $ come from? Does it come out of potential NIL, potential facilities, cutting sports with substantial losses, etc.?

What does a model that increases funding and scholarships for sports with higher demand like baseball mean regarding Title IX?? Do we then need to add a ladies sports to get back into equilibrium on scholarship numbers or do we cut a male sport to make up the difference?

Its time we litigate Title IX back to the LAW and not Carter era REGULATIONS, which is what lower court opinions have been based on all these years. The LAW doesn't require 1:1 scholarships. It would be one thing if the school was cutting women's basketball and softball to have other men's sports, but what's been going on for decades is the proliferation of relatively minor women's sports that schools have a very hard time finding players for.

I don't want to make this political (hard not to on this subject) but now we have the whole gender mess and a lot of the same people who screamed Title 9 back in the day are now in no way supporters of WOMEN'S sports since they don't give a damn about who's actually playing the game (e.g. biological men who've transitioned or whatever). Many/most of these folks had an agenda to get rid of football in the first place. (14 schools have cut football since 2000).

Congress isn't going to touch the issue. In spite of those that don't care much for WATCHING women's sports, few of us have any issue with the actual real sports on campus: basketball, soccer, tennis, softball, and even gymnastics and the like. Its where you get in to stupid stuff like artistic swimming (no, I'm not kidding), fencing, field hockey AND Lacrosse (pick one), TWO forms of rowing, sailing, and squash as VARSITY sports. Obviously, not every school has all these, but not every school can support a varsity team in some other sports like water polo or beach volleyball.
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Panama Red
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8:25a, 5/4/24
AG
The Title IX issue is why most schools probably won't increase scholarships to the full roster (if this goes through). However, SEC schools will and likely do the same with softball.

Also, this is one bizarre take:

Quote:
Everyone gets a trophy nowadays.
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greg.w.h
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In reply to 91AggieLawyer • 8:38a, 5/4/24
AG
91AggieLawyer said:
Gap said:
Average cost of a scholarship is $54,700. So 20 additional scholarships is about $1.1M per year over $11M for a 10 year period.

Where does the $ come from? Does it come out of potential NIL, potential facilities, cutting sports with substantial losses, etc.?

What does a model that increases funding and scholarships for sports with higher demand like baseball mean regarding Title IX?? Do we then need to add a ladies sports to get back into equilibrium on scholarship numbers or do we cut a male sport to make up the difference?

Its time we litigate Title IX back to the LAW and not Carter era REGULATIONS, which is what lower court opinions have been based on all these years. The LAW doesn't require 1:1 scholarships. It would be one thing if the school was cutting women's basketball and softball to have other men's sports, but what's been going on for decades is the proliferation of relatively minor women's sports that schools have a very hard time finding players for.

I don't want to make this political (hard not to on this subject) but now we have the whole gender mess and a lot of the same people who screamed Title 9 back in the day are now in no way supporters of WOMEN'S sports since they don't give a damn about who's actually playing the game (e.g. biological men who've transitioned or whatever). Many/most of these folks had an agenda to get rid of football in the first place. (14 schools have cut football since 2000).

Congress isn't going to touch the issue. In spite of those that don't care much for WATCHING women's sports, few of us have any issue with the actual real sports on campus: basketball, soccer, tennis, softball, and even gymnastics and the like. Its where you get in to stupid stuff like artistic swimming (no, I'm not kidding), fencing, field hockey AND Lacrosse (pick one), TWO forms of rowing, sailing, and squash as VARSITY sports. Obviously, not every school has all these, but not every school can support a varsity team in some other sports like water polo or beach volleyball.
At this point it requires votes to reform the interpretation of the law. The theee Democrat-appointed female justices are unlikely to hotw to change it. Amy Coney Barrett probably won't vote to change it. Roberts won't. Gorsuch likely won't.

That leaves Congress and the Lresident to agree on reforming it. That can't happen until a Republican majority rift exists in both houses and there is enough political oomph to get a change to the law through.

But as Gap pointed out there are plenty of ways to adjust. Once is cut off capital spending with the new baseball upgrades. Just claiming to make more money is how we got in this entire mess in the first place. Maybe bringing in less is the solution going forward.
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LOYAL AG
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8:26p, 5/4/24
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This will be a net negative for the sport. About 12 schools make money in baseball. I'd guess we see 100 schools drop the sport immediately. It's one thing to offer 5-7 partials in a sport where everyone is offering at most 11.7 partials but now you're offering 5 -7 full rides while other schools have 32 full rides. This creates a world where teams are mostly walk on players and obviously thats bad.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
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Capitol Ag
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In reply to 91AggieLawyer • 8:51p, 5/4/24
AG
91AggieLawyer said:
Gap said:
Average cost of a scholarship is $54,700. So 20 additional scholarships is about $1.1M per year over $11M for a 10 year period.

Where does the $ come from? Does it come out of potential NIL, potential facilities, cutting sports with substantial losses, etc.?

What does a model that increases funding and scholarships for sports with higher demand like baseball mean regarding Title IX?? Do we then need to add a ladies sports to get back into equilibrium on scholarship numbers or do we cut a male sport to make up the difference?

Its time we litigate Title IX back to the LAW and not Carter era REGULATIONS, which is what lower court opinions have been based on all these years. The LAW doesn't require 1:1 scholarships. It would be one thing if the school was cutting women's basketball and softball to have other men's sports, but what's been going on for decades is the proliferation of relatively minor women's sports that schools have a very hard time finding players for.

I don't want to make this political (hard not to on this subject) but now we have the whole gender mess and a lot of the same people who screamed Title 9 back in the day are now in no way supporters of WOMEN'S sports since they don't give a damn about who's actually playing the game (e.g. biological men who've transitioned or whatever). Many/most of these folks had an agenda to get rid of football in the first place. (14 schools have cut football since 2000).

Congress isn't going to touch the issue. In spite of those that don't care much for WATCHING women's sports, few of us have any issue with the actual real sports on campus: basketball, soccer, tennis, softball, and even gymnastics and the like. Its where you get in to stupid stuff like artistic swimming (no, I'm not kidding), fencing, field hockey AND Lacrosse (pick one), TWO forms of rowing, sailing, and squash as VARSITY sports. Obviously, not every school has all these, but not every school can support a varsity team in some other sports like water polo or beach volleyball.


Interesting. I hadn't realized the difference in the way Title IX was enforced the way it is and that the law isn't necessarily that. So, this could throw a wrench in a lawsuit brought regarding Title IX?
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yell_on_6th st
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In reply to F4GIB71 • 12:09a, 5/5/24
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F4GIB71 said:
I'd love to see this. A buddy's son played four years for UH and only got 1/3 of a scholarship his senior year.

Thoughts and prayers for the Cougar
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Panama Red
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10:36a, 7/18/24
AG
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Wicked Good Ag
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10:48a, 7/18/24
I see only a hand full of teams outside of the main conferences being able to compete if having to give full scholarships plus being NIL driven.
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The Marksman
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In reply to Panama Red • 11:01a, 7/18/24
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Panama Red said:
Excellent news! These student-athletes deserve it!
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dabo man
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11:05a, 7/18/24
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The limit for an SEC game roster is 27, I believe.

Is there a limit for non-conference roster? I ask because this limit (to me) is the logical number of scholarships for baseball.
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dabo man
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11:13a, 7/18/24
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I think it's time to split D1 baseball into something a lot more selective than 305 teams. At this point in time, we have the SEC, ACC, and then everyone else. I'll be interested to see what happens to West Coast baseball with no Pac 12.

I don't know where the split into a new 'D0' (good name?) division occurs, but ultimately, the new scholarship limit becomes a consensus decision among those schools.
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Wicked Good Ag
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11:18a, 7/18/24
Title 9 issues and full allotment could be interesting to watch.

I have always thought it should be at least 15 but the full 30+ will be a huge movement
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LOYAL AG
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12:52p, 7/18/24
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College sports continues to get smaller. We all know 11.7 was absurd but it was good for competitive balance which no longer matters. My guess is we see 100+ schools drop baseball entirely in the next 3 years including much of the west coast. Mixed emotions for sure.
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themissinglink
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1:51p, 7/18/24
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Expansion of scholarships as well as limited direct payments from the athletic department to athletes is why Trev was brought in. We (along with every other school) are going to have to cut spending to fit these into the budget. It helps us that our topline number is quite large.
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LesterHaze
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2:35p, 7/18/24

The real impact is that a lot of times, inner city kids can't afford to pay for even part of college. That's why college baseball is mostly suburb kids from traveling teams. This will improve the player and team quality significantly.
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nereus
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3:27p, 7/18/24
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The interesting thing to me is that this isn't just an increase in scholarships; this is also a decrease in roster size.

Bumping scholarships up from 11.7 to mid-30s makes sense to me.

Dropping the roster size from 40 currently to mid-30s, I didn't expect. I don't know enough about managing the back end of a college baseball roster to have much of an opinion on that (but I guess with the transfer portal you don't need to carry as much depth of younger players that are basically redshirting?). I didn't expect that to be something they were looking at changing.
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nereus
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In reply to dabo man • 3:30p, 7/18/24
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dabo man said:
The limit for an SEC game roster is 27, I believe.

Is there a limit for non-conference roster? I ask because this limit (to me) is the logical number of scholarships for baseball.
27 is for a series, but you don't have to take the same 27 every weekend. With injuries that will occur during the year, I can see the logic in having the scholarship number set a little higher than that.
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AWP 97
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6:53p, 7/18/24
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MLB has a 40 man roster and a 25 man active roster. The active roster might have changed with Covid. I'm not sure. I know college only plays about a third of the games, but I can see this staying about the same or close to it. I guess it depends on the final determination on what college sports does with walk-ons.
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hipnix
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In reply to nereus • 7:31p, 7/18/24
nereus said:
dabo man said:
The limit for an SEC game roster is 27, I believe.

Is there a limit for non-conference roster? I ask because this limit (to me) is the logical number of scholarships for baseball.
27 is for a series, but you don't have to take the same 27 every weekend. With injuries that will occur during the year, I can see the logic in having the scholarship number set a little higher than that.
You're right. Here is the regulation from the SEC Baseball Manual. The roster can change from series to series.

Squad Size. Only 27 student-athletes shall be allowed to participate in a Conference series. The 27 participating student-athletes for both the home and visiting team must be declared prior to the first game of a Conference series and may not be changed during the course of the series. Eligible non-participating student-athletes (home and away) may travel, dress, and engage in all pre and post-game activities. [Revised: 10/4/18, 7/10/20, 6/3/22]

https://www.secsports.com/regs-baseball
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BiochemAg97
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In reply to themissinglink • 10:30p, 7/18/24
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themissinglink said:
Expansion of scholarships as well as limited direct payments from the athletic department to athletes is why Trev was brought in. We (along with every other school) are going to have to cut spending to fit these into the budget. It helps us that our topline number is quite large.


Also helps that it will get larger with the shift from
CBS to ESPN this year. It isn't a coincidence that SEC and B1G pushed a settlement that allowed them to share revenue with the players over the same time frame that both SEC and B1G are getting big raises.
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OKCAGS
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10:55p, 7/18/24
11.7 was the biggest injustice in college athletics ….. for years .
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ensign_beedrill
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In reply to OKCAGS • 8:35a, 7/19/24
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That, and the only 3 paid coaches in baseball. If you wanted another coach he had to volunteer his time for free.
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ensign_beedrill
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11:42a, 7/19/24
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So if we split D1 baseball into subdivisions, do you think the tournament size shrinks? A lot of the teams that get auto-qualifiers now would probably be going into a different subdivision.
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Detmersdislocatedshoulder
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In reply to OKCAGS • 3:12p, 7/19/24
OKCAGS said:
11.7 was the biggest injustice in college athletics ….. for years .


no doubt about it. i was lucky enough to get my out of state turition paid and books and thought i made it big. 11.7 scholarships has been a joke for a very long time.
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Jugstore Cowboy
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In reply to LOYAL AG • 9:05p, 7/19/24
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LOYAL AG said:
This will be a net negative for the sport. About 12 schools make money in baseball. I'd guess we see 100 schools drop the sport immediately. It's one thing to offer 5-7 partials in a sport where everyone is offering at most 11.7 partials but now you're offering 5 -7 full rides while other schools have 32 full rides. This creates a world where teams are mostly walk on players and obviously thats bad.
There's a lot to sort out, but on the surface, at least, this new direction strikes me as a more honest approach than the old days of pretending that certain programs were just getting lucky with academic scholars who just happened to enjoy baseball as their favorite extracurricular activity. You know, as a way to fill the time between debate and chess meets.
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scd88
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12:16p, 7/20/24
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College football is already careening towards NFL lite where only 30-35 teams will be on TV, eligible for playoffs, playing each other, etc.

I really hope college baseball can avoid that. However, I agree with the posters that only the rich athletic departments will be the ones who benefit from this.

That is not healthy for the sport.

ETA - 11.5 was a travesty, I agree. Mid 30's is an over correction.
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phatty26
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12:24p, 7/20/24
How can they do this title IX it will eat that money like it did before such crap.
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OKCAGS
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In reply to Detmersdislocatedshoulder • 1:45p, 7/20/24
You did ….. that was at least a full half of one of those 11.7 scholarships. So ridiculous.
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OKCAGS
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In reply to ensign_beedrill • 1:48p, 7/20/24
Agreed . The "volunteer" assistant usually made $ through the summer camps programs . Baseball has been the red headed step child for decades.
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OKCAGS
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In reply to scd88 • 1:50p, 7/20/24
Plus NIL now ….. college baseball has TOTALLY changed in a few short years ( for the better ).
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